complaint about members renting during holidays

[Dean]

DON'T use points for HH in the winter regardless. Other than holidays and school breaks, the DVC cash discount for rooms in the winter is dirt cheap. Save the points or rent them to pay for the rooms in cash. I did this last year and basically got a 2-br on cash for a studio's number of rented points.

One can routinely Hilton Head units about 4 months of the year through interval for a song. A bonus week will get you a two bedroom for around 300 dollars For a full week.

 

[3DisneyKids]

One can routinely Hilton Head units about 4 months of the year through interval for a song. A bonus week will get you a two bedroom for around 300 dollars For a full week.

Great tip, Dean, thanks! I assume that those months are Nov., Dec., Jan. and Feb.?

 

[yitbos96bb]

The ethics of commercial renting aside, I have little sympathy. They could have called right at the 11 month window and most likely got their rooms at their home resort. They could then also call at 7 months and book one of the OTHER resorts. If a specific resort is so important to them they could call each day and link their reservation. The system is in place and I have yet to not get the reservations I want because I know how to work the system (learning tricks from DIS, btw).

They can complain all they want, but ultimately they have the same opportunity to get those ressies as the parasite renting them out.

First let me say that I've rented my pts before to another member via transferring. My complaint is not about renters per se, but the prime reservations that are made and then rented out for a profit. An example: there are 2 listings on the rent/trade board - 1 is for New Year's and another is for Christmas. Both are reservations in a 2 bdrm. (I think) and are asking $13.50 and $14 per point. I do not go during the holidays, so this is not a complaint because I couldn't get what I wanted, but for those that tried so hard to get a holiday reservation and couldn't. I know the waitlist is long for those holidays. I am going on the assumption that someone made the ressie and then found they themselves could not go (yes, giving them the benefit of the doubt). Why not cancel and let someone that truly can go and is probably praying their waitlist comes through, have that reservation instead of now trying to make a profit on it? I'd like to see MS make restrictions on the holidays that one of the occupants must be a member. I know that opens a can of worms, but why should these prime ressies be rented out when a member would really like to have one?

 

[yitbos96bb]

I don't rent reservations and I feel that every DVCer has a shot. You want your ressie, get your butt up early and on the phone each day and get it. Yes it sucks to do, but that's how you guarentee you get it. But to say all people who feel like I do are subtle renters is ridiculous.

Lets not assume and lump people into two catergories, ok?

MichelleB, you are going to probably get two very different responses to your statement. The subtle renters who do this all the time will stress that all is equal between DVC members and making a reservation. The anti-renting owner will state that this is wrong and unfair to the other members.

I know my feelings on this one and I'm with you. But stopping it really isn't going to happen. However, they won't be posting these reservations For Rent on the R/T Board anymore since they have to wait for 30 days out to do so. You'll have to go over to Redweek, craigslist or Ebay to find these now. Or, you'll find the covert posts (many, many posts), that will state to a non-owner seeking this time "I sent you a PM.".

 

[yitbos96bb]

I think DVC should also stop couples from reserving 1-BR units during prime weeks. After all, that greedy couple is taking away a unit that my whole family could use. I don't like that practice...it's not fair to DVC families!! In fact, before allowing a couple to use a 1-BR unit, I think DVC should call me first just to double check if my family may need the unit first.

Do you realize that some DVC members may exclusively use thier points for Xmas time stays? Do you think it's fair that year after year they hog-up more than their fair share of "DVC prime-time"?

All point owners have the same chances of booking their desired unit, what they do with it should be their business.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Wow, you should go back, re-read her post and then learn that the little smiley's next to her words mean ITS A JOKE! Please learn your way around the concept of snark and sarcasm... it will save your sanity on internet forums.

Deb, this is the first time I have found you to be offensive You sound as though you are saying that VB and HH have no right to stay at "our" resorts. If they chose to buy at those particular resorts, they must be fighting to get into WDW resorts, since of course "our" resorts are more desirable than their resorts are. That isn't true. In my experience, I found it harder to reserve at my resort when SSR came online, since there are so many of them. HH and VB are lovely resorts, and those members do not deserve to be looked down upon.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Then they should make their reservation ASAP and not fool around waiting.

I look at us all (all the resorts) as a whole. I just think a member should have dibbs at the prime seasons instead of someone renting it out. I don't care at other times of the year.

 

[Dean]

Great tip, Dean, thanks! I assume that those months are Nov., Dec., Jan. and Feb.?

That is correct. November is limited availability. The holiday week during November in December are generally not available. Actually March shows up not uncommonly as well.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

Michelle - just wanted to say I agree with your original post. Of course threads like this aren't going to stop people from buying into the DVC with the intention of making a profit, but being able to get away with something technically doesn't make it right.

As I understand it, Disney has every right to land with both feet on commercial renters. Just because that becomes too impractical in the real world for all but the worst offenders doesn't make commercial renting ok. I appreciate the courtesy Disney extends us that basically looks the other way when we rent our points to someone when we have a genuine and unforeseen need. I'd hate to see an eventual decree that DVC members must check their guests in personally because too many people ended up abusing that courtesy.

 

[rinkwide]

...I appreciate the courtesy Disney extends us that basically looks the other way when we rent our points to someone when we have a genuine and unforeseen need...

I think the word your looking for is magnanimous.

 

[yitbos96bb]

Michelle - just wanted to say I agree with your original post. Of course threads like this aren't going to stop people from buying into the DVC with the intention of making a profit, but being able to get away with something technically doesn't make it right.

As I understand it, Disney has every right to land with both feet on commercial renters. Just because that becomes too impractical in the real world for all but the worst offenders doesn't make commercial renting ok. I appreciate the courtesy Disney extends us that basically looks the other way when we rent our points to someone when we have a genuine and unforeseen need. I'd hate to see an eventual decree that DVC members must check their guests in personally because too many people ended up abusing that courtesy.

Here's the thing though; you and others don't seem to understand what commercial renting actually is. Selling your timeshare week is NOT commercial renting as defined by the contract (or really in common sense). Commercial renting is someone purchasing several weeks or points and setting up a business with the SOLE purpose of selling those reservations. Not saying those people aren't on this site, mind you. If I set up a website called DVCPoints.com and rented my points out that way, then I am a commercial renter. Me owning 600 points, using 200 and renting the rest, is not.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I've read posts where senarios play out like these:

I just booked a Xmas trip for my friend as a thank you for doing the plumbing in my new bathroom.

I just booked an Easter trip for my sister, she's been so kind to babysit my 2 yo.

I just booked a Xmas trip for my employee as a Christmas bonus.

Bottom like, in these circumstances, DVCers are using their asset (DVC) as a form of payment to friends or family. A family member or friend does something for you that has a monetary value, and instead of paying them cash, you offer up your accomodations.

Just another form of renting.

While many here boast about how they never charge their guests anything for DVC stays, I bet the dynamics of their relationships include quid pro quo as an unspoken understanding. Pretending that we altruistically offer up DVC to family and friends gets overstated here a lot, and is too often used in a "high horse" manner...IMO.

Something to think about.

 

[Inkmahm]

While many here boast about how they never charge their guests anything for DVC stays, I bet the dynamics of their relationships include quid pro quo as an unspoken understanding. Pretending that we altruistically offer up DVC to family and friends gets overstated here a lot, and is too often used in a "high horse" manner...IMO.

Something to think about.

And I'll bet you're wrong. There is no "quid pro quo" in my family. My brother/sister/mom can't afford the same things my husband and I can afford so we treat them with no expectation of being paid back in any way. The same is true of some of my DH's family so we are treating them, too. No payment of any kind to be received or expected.

And I'll bet our family isn't at all unusual compared to many on these boards.

 

[Deb & Bill]

And I'll bet you're wrong. There is no "quid pro quo" in my family. My brother/sister/mom can't afford the same things my husband and I can afford so we treat them with no expectation of being paid back in any way. The same is true of some of my DH's family so we are treating them, too. No payment of any kind to be received or expected.

And I'll bet our family isn't at all unusual compared to many on these boards.

I'm with you on this one, Inkmahm. We have invited family and friends with us for the pure pleasure of having them with us. No expectation of any payment at all. They were truly our guests.

 

[kimberh]

I've read posts where senarios play out like these:

I just booked a Xmas trip for my friend as a thank you for doing the plumbing in my new bathroom.

I just booked an Easter trip for my sister, she's been so kind to babysit my 2 yo.

I just booked a Xmas trip for my employee as a Christmas bonus.

Bottom like, in these circumstances, DVCers are using their asset (DVC) as a form of payment to friends or family. A family member or friend does something for you that has a monetary value, and instead of paying them cash, you offer up your accomodations.

Just another form of renting.

While many here boast about how they never charge their guests anything for DVC stays, I bet the dynamics of their relationships include quid pro quo as an unspoken understanding. Pretending that we altruistically offer up DVC to family and friends gets overstated here a lot, and is too often used in a "high horse" manner...IMO.

Something to think about.

It is something to think about. If the shoe fits, then wear it. It it doesn't, then don't.

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

Here's the thing though; you and others don't seem to understand what commercial renting actually is. Selling your timeshare week is NOT commercial renting as defined by the contract (or really in common sense). Commercial renting is someone purchasing several weeks or points and setting up a business with the SOLE purpose of selling those reservations. Me owning 600 points, using 200 and renting the rest, is not.

I'm not getting the nuances here. If I own 600 points, but bought 400 of those with the SOLE intention of renting those out every year, then I am a commercial renter, right? I just find threads by individuals routinely offering hard-to-get reservations suspicious. If it looks like a duck.....

 

[3DisneyKids]

Here's the thing though; you and others don't seem to understand what commercial renting actually is. Selling your timeshare week is NOT commercial renting as defined by the contract (or really in common sense). Commercial renting is someone purchasing several weeks or points and setting up a business with the SOLE purpose of selling those reservations. Not saying those people aren't on this site, mind you. If I set up a website called DVCPoints.com and rented my points out that way, then I am a commercial renter. Me owning 600 points, using 200 and renting the rest, is not.

I'll let Dean handle this for the heavy stuff.... ...but if you own 600 points and only want 200 for yourself each year and intentionally bought more than you will need for the purpose of renting, then I would say you are a commercial renter.

It goes back to exactly what Disney has said..."pattern of activity." While this is ambiguous terminology, the principle is valid. If you have a year or two where you cannot use all 600 of your points, sure, go ahead and rent them. I have never heard anyone here have a problem with that.

However, if you purposely over-bought so that you could rent...and thus year after year after year (pattern of activity) are renting out numerous trips, then I would classify that as a commercial renter.

FYI--Disney's current test is 20 reservations in one year to people other than you. Thus, 600 points would not be on their radar as you really can't book more than 20 reservations with that number of points. (Ok, yes, you can book more than 20 one or two night studio reservations, but you get my point.)

 

[Dean]

I'll let Dean handle this for the heavy stuff.... ...but if you own 600 points and only want 200 for yourself each year and intentionally bought more than you will need for the purpose of renting, then I would say you are a commercial renter.

It goes back to exactly what Disney has said..."pattern of activity." While this is ambiguous terminology, the principle is valid. If you have a year or two where you cannot use all 600 of your points, sure, go ahead and rent them. I have never heard anyone here have a problem with that.

However, if you purposely over-bought so that you could rent...and thus year after year after year (pattern of activity) are renting out numerous trips, then I would classify that as a commercial renter.

FYI--Disney's current test is 20 reservations in one year to people other than you. Thus, 600 points would not be on their radar as you really can't book more than 20 reservations with that number of points. (Ok, yes, you can book more than 20 one or two night studio reservations, but you get my point.)

Since you invited, I'll respond.

It seems like everyone here has their definition and most are far more stringent than DVC's. What about one who bought 600 points with the intention of renting half or more to pay their fees? Or one who bought and their situation changed? This is not a question of the definition of words including "commercial" or profit, this is a test of where DVC draws the line between the contractual ability for members to rent and the vague wording in that same document related to a pattern of commercial activity. It is my opinion that they should treat all members the same and that includes themselves. I further believe that legally they must do so but until it's challenged in court, we can argue it indefinitely. DVC cannot deal with intent, they must deal with the end point facts so they will want to stay out of the situation where they have to check to see why a member is renting. That means they want to have a very high threshold before they label a member as a "commercial renter" under the POS guidelines. I think 20 a year is reasonable, my understanding of the current situation is that one isn't limited to 20 per year but that those above 20 must be in the members name. MS has admitted to at least two different people that this isn't really enforceable legally so hopefully we'll see it tested through the court system at some point in the near future, I doubt they would have done so if they hadn't heard that from management. Lastly, I think it's funny that so many are willing to tell others what to do with their points when many of those same ones are bent out of shape if someone points out that a particular usage option is a poor use of points.

 

[MdmMim]

And I'll bet you're wrong. There is no "quid pro quo" in my family. My brother/sister/mom can't afford the same things my husband and I can afford so we treat them with no expectation of being paid back in any way. The same is true of some of my DH's family so we are treating them, too. No payment of any kind to be received or expected.

And I'll bet our family isn't at all unusual compared to many on these boards.

You're right, Inkmahn, your family is not unusual.

When I make reservations for my family and friends, I expect nothing in return and would be slightly insulted if an offer were made. Sometimes, we plan a group trip, and other times, I'll send them off to WDW on their own, but in return, nothing is expected--or wanted. My points are shared, not exchanged for money or services.