NeuroCindy
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2014
That's sweet, all credit goes to Queen2PrincessG though.
She had the courage to start this thread and elegantly state her opinion. I was just backing her sentiment as an ally. 
...Colorblind and all that is wrong with it.
- Thread starter Queen2PrincessG
- Start date
That's sweet, all credit goes to Queen2PrincessG though.
She had the courage to start this thread and elegantly state her opinion. I was just backing her sentiment as an ally. 
megster1123
Blown away at Pictured Rocks. Literally.
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2016
That's sweet, all credit goes to Queen2PrincessG though.
It's not really elegant though when one totally ignores facts from an opposing viewpoint.
Sammie
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 1999
You make an excellent point. America is heading toward the day when whites will no longer make up the majority of the population. I know even now I live in a city where whites are not the majority, and I definitely live in a neighborhood where they are very much the minority. This is an interesting article on your very point and is probably why children see things differently.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ties-will-be-the-majority-by-2020-census-says
backformore
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2016
I just watched the podcast, and I have to chime in regarding costumes. I am older, and when I was a kid, there were Halloween costumes that were "Indian chief" with a feather headdress, "Squaw", with a fringed dress and single feather in a hairband. Those might seem benign, but it's actually a costume depicting a racial stereotype, so yes, it is offensive. A Pocahontas costume doesn't have the same connotation, because the costume is of an historical character - or a disney movie character.
If you're not sure about the difference, when I was a kid there were also costumes depicting "African native" (bone in nose, make up to depict war paint) "Chinaman" (mandarin collar tunic, and rice paddy hat) Japanese girl (white face paint, eye makeup, kimono, fan) and "Mexican" (sombrero, carrying maracas) . ALL of these are insensitive, and offensive, and equivalent to the "Indian" costume. Why? Because a race or ethnic group is not a costume. When you dress like an ethnic minority, you are marginalizing the people you are representing by your costume. Imagine being the single student of an ethnic group in a classroom, and having some white kid dress up as your race or ethnicity.
All of these are costumes that I, my siblings, and my friends and neighbors wore. (blame the parents, not the kids) And all are offensive, by today's standards, but were considered fine in the 1960s. We didn't know any better, living in a segregated part of Chicago, we had no direct knowledge of these races or ethnic groups. But today, we can see that these are wrong. You wouldn't have your white child dress as a "black gangster", you wouldn't have a child dress up as a stereotypical "Gay guy". either of those would be offensive. But, if you don't like how politically correct society is getting, imagine how you might respond to children dressed as a group you represent, especially if they came across as making fun of you.
In the video, you said it was about intent. It's not, it's about stereotypes. Stereotypes offend, even when you don't intend to offend.
People get away with offensive behavior and respond to detractors with "PC Police!" but, PC = not offending people.
If you're not sure about the difference, when I was a kid there were also costumes depicting "African native" (bone in nose, make up to depict war paint) "Chinaman" (mandarin collar tunic, and rice paddy hat) Japanese girl (white face paint, eye makeup, kimono, fan) and "Mexican" (sombrero, carrying maracas) . ALL of these are insensitive, and offensive, and equivalent to the "Indian" costume. Why? Because a race or ethnic group is not a costume. When you dress like an ethnic minority, you are marginalizing the people you are representing by your costume. Imagine being the single student of an ethnic group in a classroom, and having some white kid dress up as your race or ethnicity.
All of these are costumes that I, my siblings, and my friends and neighbors wore. (blame the parents, not the kids) And all are offensive, by today's standards, but were considered fine in the 1960s. We didn't know any better, living in a segregated part of Chicago, we had no direct knowledge of these races or ethnic groups. But today, we can see that these are wrong. You wouldn't have your white child dress as a "black gangster", you wouldn't have a child dress up as a stereotypical "Gay guy". either of those would be offensive. But, if you don't like how politically correct society is getting, imagine how you might respond to children dressed as a group you represent, especially if they came across as making fun of you.
In the video, you said it was about intent. It's not, it's about stereotypes. Stereotypes offend, even when you don't intend to offend.
People get away with offensive behavior and respond to detractors with "PC Police!" but, PC = not offending people.
*NikkiBell*
Livin’ that DVC & AP life!
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2005
I would certainly would hope you would continue watching and not let one episode dissuade you from doing so in the future. You're valued here as are all opinions.
NeuroCindy
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2014
I agree with Nikki. I'll add my thought which is this: people evolve at different paces. There's not one person on this podcast that wants to hurt people. You had a podcast member in this thread learning and asking questions. Cultural appropriation is a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp, I give them credit for wanting to learn and making it clear that they don't want to hurt anyone. With so much intentional and blatant discrimination that goes on, I think their intent matters; and in my opinion, their intentions are good. But if you're not comfortable listening to the podcast, I understand.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2005
I believe it is about intent and I stand behind my statement.
I just listened to a new song today by a young black American. In it...he uses a word repeatedly that almost everyone would deem highly offensive. It surprised me and that usually takes a lot.
It's apparent that he is either okay with offending people or assumes that it's okay to use that word because of his intent and his expected audience.
It's a stereotype of the most egregious sort, but I am betting that it will be a huge hit regardless of the inclusion of this highly stereotypical and unflattering word. Much of his work is very popular.
I explained on the show that certain (stereotype) words have been used against me for a good portion of my life and that depending on who uses them...they are either still highly offensive or they aren't.
Because of this....these are words that I have removed from my vocabulary. I don't want to unintentionally hurt anyone.
In many situations, things that offend one will not offend another. This can make it a hard road to navigate until someone lets you know that you have unintentionally hurt or offended them.
Life is all about evolving and learning. I think intent needs to be considered when realizing that people will evolve at different rates.
As I said earlier, I try and overcome what has been ingrained in me by being 57 years old. I am a learning work in progress and I hope that my intent shows through and excuses what I didn't know I didn't know.
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pjweaver
just happy to be here
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
I think you've discovered the secret @DisneyKevin. No one is perfect; None of us a born perfect, and no one is raised to be perfect. All we can to is learn, change, and help teach others along the way.
Never turn a blind eye to wrong and strive to better yourself in all aspects of life.
Anything you say or do has the potential to offend someone, so live your life the best you can and be a beacon to others.
Never turn a blind eye to wrong and strive to better yourself in all aspects of life.
Anything you say or do has the potential to offend someone, so live your life the best you can and be a beacon to others.
backformore
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2016
Kevin, my comment about intent and offensiveness was primarily in response to comments on the podcast about political correctness, and how if a costume is not work with the intention to offend, then it's OK. that is the main thing I disagree with. Costumes depicting ethnic groups are offensive when worn by someone outside that group, regardless of intent.
As to language, I grew up thinking that a lot of things were OK to say - words I would never use now, but were commonly used by my parents and grandparents. those words were wrong, but as a child I didn't know it, so I had no intent to hurt, but that doesn't negate any hurt feelings I might have caused.
Like you, I grew up with a different set of rules than I ascribe to now. we are all learning and growing. thanks for being so candid and open.
As to language, I grew up thinking that a lot of things were OK to say - words I would never use now, but were commonly used by my parents and grandparents. those words were wrong, but as a child I didn't know it, so I had no intent to hurt, but that doesn't negate any hurt feelings I might have caused.
Like you, I grew up with a different set of rules than I ascribe to now. we are all learning and growing. thanks for being so candid and open.
I worked in a restaurant for. 20 yrs from when I was 25 to 45 , I have to agree with Kevin , I told my wife who is black and I'm white that the kids today do not see color , I see more black and white couples and friends, another story I can tell a few yrs back one of the power rangers got into trouble ,I asked my nephew who is biracial witch kid is the one that got in trouble , he told me the kid in the blue shirt , he didn't say the black kid ,I found that interesting but with that said we are concerned with the profiling of young black males in our country
pjweaver
just happy to be here
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
Name any Halloween costume and I will find someone who is offended by it. Just accept that fact.
Tonyz
How do ya do? Pretty good, sure as you're born!
- Joined
- May 17, 2014
Uh, speak for yourself...
Mackenzie Click-Mickelson
Chugging along the path of life
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
The way I took it during the podcast is when people say children don't see color they actually mean that in a good way. Children don't tend to say "mommy I can't be friends with that kid because X-color of skin" unless they are taught that or are exposed to that and that goes for all races.
Disneymom1126
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
I have a lot of strong opinions on this topic, so I probably should avoid posting in the first place, but I will share my thoughts because I hope it contributes to the dialogue. Some things to know about me - I am a white female mother of a biracial child. I also work in higher education so these are conversations I have with college students all of the time. Many times I think the problem when we get down to the heart of the issue is that individuals may feel that because they (as an individual) are "colorblind" then they do not contribute to the problem of continued racial injustice in the country (or may not believe racial injustice is still a problem), however the issues that affect people of color are not issues they may have ever encountered so it is difficult for them to empathize / understand from the other persons' perspective how systemic racism (or racism that is of the larger society, not racism of an individual) continues to affect people of color.
Colorblind in some communities is a code word for "I don't as an individual discriminate against people who are racially different from me." In other communities "colorblind" is a code word for someone who does not believe racism continues to be an issue in this country. It also assumes (in my opinion) the requirement that those people of color who have better assimilated into the majority culture (i.e. taken on the cultural norms of the majority culture) are the "good" people of color. Some while the "intent" of someone using the word colorblind might be to show that they are not racist, the impact for some people is actually an indicator that the person does not believe racism exists or does not feel like they (as a white person) have a role to play in overcoming systemic racism in our country.
What most people of color want (from my perspective) is to be acknowledged and listened to when these topics come up as opposed to being immediately dismissed. It's what anyone wants when they are feeling like others don't understand or try to understand their perspective. I also think it's important that everyone of all races has a role to play in overcoming the issues that continue to plague our country as it applies to race and racial injustice/racial oppression -- but if we cannot as a collective agree that there is a problem, than we are all just banging our heads against a wall in frustration with no hope of change.
Colorblind in some communities is a code word for "I don't as an individual discriminate against people who are racially different from me." In other communities "colorblind" is a code word for someone who does not believe racism continues to be an issue in this country. It also assumes (in my opinion) the requirement that those people of color who have better assimilated into the majority culture (i.e. taken on the cultural norms of the majority culture) are the "good" people of color. Some while the "intent" of someone using the word colorblind might be to show that they are not racist, the impact for some people is actually an indicator that the person does not believe racism exists or does not feel like they (as a white person) have a role to play in overcoming systemic racism in our country.
What most people of color want (from my perspective) is to be acknowledged and listened to when these topics come up as opposed to being immediately dismissed. It's what anyone wants when they are feeling like others don't understand or try to understand their perspective. I also think it's important that everyone of all races has a role to play in overcoming the issues that continue to plague our country as it applies to race and racial injustice/racial oppression -- but if we cannot as a collective agree that there is a problem, than we are all just banging our heads against a wall in frustration with no hope of change.
disneyland_is_magic
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2016
Did anyone say racism isn't a problem?? All I heard from the podcast was the next generation seems to be more accepting. How this got twisted into a bad thing I am still scratching my head.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence the podcast crew are racist. They also never said racism doesn't exist. All they said was their kids are more accepting and don't notice race as much when choosing friends. They are proud their kids are more openly accepting. Shouldn't they be!?!
The term colorblind was not meant offensively, it was not used to say racism doesn't happens. To say they were secretly implying racism is a nonissue is putting words, ALOT of words, in their mouths.
Several people have come to clarify that they also don't use colorblind that way. Young kids have come to agree they are less aware of race.
If someone can provide me with a word for "colorblind" that doesn't imply the negative, please speak up, I'm happy to use that instead.
Yes, I am colorblind, no I am not claiming racism doesn't exist in this country. The podcast crew are decent folks, who are proud their kids are more accepting, that's all they said, and I think it's a great thing.
There is absolutely ZERO evidence the podcast crew are racist. They also never said racism doesn't exist. All they said was their kids are more accepting and don't notice race as much when choosing friends. They are proud their kids are more openly accepting. Shouldn't they be!?!
The term colorblind was not meant offensively, it was not used to say racism doesn't happens. To say they were secretly implying racism is a nonissue is putting words, ALOT of words, in their mouths.
Several people have come to clarify that they also don't use colorblind that way. Young kids have come to agree they are less aware of race.
If someone can provide me with a word for "colorblind" that doesn't imply the negative, please speak up, I'm happy to use that instead.
Yes, I am colorblind, no I am not claiming racism doesn't exist in this country. The podcast crew are decent folks, who are proud their kids are more accepting, that's all they said, and I think it's a great thing.
disneyland_is_magic
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2016
Also, there are plenty of worthwhile social causes out there, we can't all fight every battle. I am not implying equal treatment or social justice are not great causes. They absolutely are.
My causes are substance abuse treatment for very young moms with newborns and feeding the homeless. The podcast crew have chosen GKTW as their cause.
It would be unjust for me to accuse my mother she doesn't care about the food bank or refugees because she volunteers her time and money to breast cancer research instead.
We need to stop implying that a nonracist person not marching with BLM is passively supporting racism.
My causes are substance abuse treatment for very young moms with newborns and feeding the homeless. The podcast crew have chosen GKTW as their cause.
It would be unjust for me to accuse my mother she doesn't care about the food bank or refugees because she volunteers her time and money to breast cancer research instead.
We need to stop implying that a nonracist person not marching with BLM is passively supporting racism.
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lovelygirl1975
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2013
I normally don't comment on these conversations here because this is not why I come to these boards. But, I just want to add that as a person who teaches small children they do notice differences; they just don't judge people by them. I am not the same race as most of my students and they comment about it sometimes. But, it has never been with malice. It is usually out of pure observation or curiosity. This is what makes "color blind" a hard one for me to accept. The kids of today are more accepting of people that are different from them not because they ignore it, but because they know it is okay to be different from each other. I really think rather than calling it being "PC" people really need to just respect each other. Nobody ever said we all have to agree; but the least we can do is be respectful.
On another note I have a student this year who truly believed that my skin would be green when he heard my name was Mrs. Green. On the very first day of school he looks at and me says with complete wonderment in eyes "You are brown everywhere aren't ya!" And, I said "Yes I am." Then he said "That's good. Because I had never seen a green person before."
On another note I have a student this year who truly believed that my skin would be green when he heard my name was Mrs. Green. On the very first day of school he looks at and me says with complete wonderment in eyes "You are brown everywhere aren't ya!" And, I said "Yes I am." Then he said "That's good. Because I had never seen a green person before."
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