Can we talk WDW price inflation???

[DisneyAuntie12]

Except judging merely on numbers, the top dog is actually doing pretty darn well. You must not be watching the fight too closely.


1. If we were talking about DLC, you would be correct. For WDW, as has been stated time and time again, Disney does not plan on high repeat visitors for WDW. Approx 70-80% are generational visitors.
2. Again, the numbers do not agree with you. Disney is full. BOOKED UP SOLID. SOMEONE IS TAKING THEIR KIDS TO DISNEY. END OF STORY. Any argument that Disney is sacrificing and driving people away is null and void as long as the parks are driving at high throttle. If the parks were ghost towns, you would have a very valid argument.

Disney Parks attendance is hard to pin down but more crowded common areas in the parks doesn’t necessarily mean booming attendance with some attractions still closed. See this article:

https://insidethemagic.net/2022/01/disney-world-attendance-problem-ab1/
They are also riding a wave of pent up demand right now; the word of mouth tide turns slowly but it does turn; and inflation is -wow, it’s happening. I’ve never seen grocery store prices tick up in real time like this before.

I’ll admit that I’m biased because I don’t like some of the recent changes and I’m hoping attendance falls just enough to make them reconsider (I do love Disney so I don’t want things to go badly for them - again, just enough of a dip that they bring back some of the perks.)

 

[cruisingtwins]

We just returned after abig trip went all out 10 park days 15 days total 1 bedroom Villa. At first we were so excited to be there and felt it was 100% worth it. By the middle of the trip we were like darn Walt you didn’t even buy me a drink first. By the end we were like yeah we are not coming back anytime soon. The value is just not there for us.

 

[New Mouse]

$90 for chicken parm, a basic pasta dish and a meatball app at Maria and Enzos.

Food was awful. No flavor and a terrible cook on all items. How do you mess up pasta?

(To be fair seaworld food was an embarassing $28 for one worse than McDonald's quick service meal)


We will not be coming back. Definitely not renewing the ap.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I’m hoping attendance falls just enough to make them reconsider (I do love Disney so I don’t want things to go badly for them - again, just enough of a dip that they bring back some of the perks.)

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you on some of your other points, I do believe that Disney is somewhat resting on it's laurels. Competition is a good thing and I honestly think that very few people disagree with you. All of us would like to see enough jump in some of the metrics to make the exec's heart skip a beat and force the company to be more innovative - not just in attractions, but also in how the company is run.

As much as I defend the price increases and give them a little leeway due to COVID, I would like to see on-site perks be better than they are - especially (selfishly) for DVC. I want character hugs back; because I love hugging Joy. I actually do not care about the price increases as much even though it eats into my wallet (and I took a significant paycut as part of covid, so it admissibly hurts a lot). But I do want magical moments. Not saying there are none - I still think you make your own magic. But I want back those things that only Disney can do. Plus - I will say it again, I want Disney Florist back. I mean it. I want it and I want it NOW.

 

[jpeterson]

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you on some of your other points, I do believe that Disney is somewhat resting on it's laurels. Competition is a good thing and I honestly think that very few people disagree with you. All of us would like to see enough jump in some of the metrics to make the exec's heart skip a beat and force the company to be more innovative - not just in attractions, but also in how the company is run.

As much as I defend the price increases and give them a little leeway due to COVID, I would like to see on-site perks be better than they are - especially (selfishly) for DVC. I want character hugs back; because I love hugging Joy. I actually do not care about the price increases as much even though it eats into my wallet (and I took a significant paycut as part of covid, so it admissibly hurts a lot). But I do want magical moments. Not saying there are none - I still think you make your own magic. But I want back those things that only Disney can do. Plus - I will say it again, I want Disney Florist back. I mean it. I want it and I want it NOW.

I would agree that while price increases aren't awesome I'm more willing to roll with them. But we really do need to get amenities back and for some to just get better overall. The loss of DME really bothered me. Park hopping still being after 2PM is pretty awful too. I am not a fan of Genie+ and the loss of FP+. The park reservation system is starting to irk slightly too, I understood it's initial need, but we are long past that.

The increase in price for a mickey pretzel or a hamburger or whatnot doesn't bother me nearly as much as the feeling that I am getting less for more.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I would agree that while price increases aren't awesome I'm more willing to roll with them. But we really do need to get amenities back and for some to just get better overall. The loss of DME really bothered me. Park hopping still being after 2PM is pretty awful too. I am not a fan of Genie+ and the loss of FP+. The park reservation system is starting to irk slightly too, I understood it's initial need, but we are long past that.

The increase in price for a mickey pretzel or a hamburger or whatnot doesn't bother me nearly as much as the feeling that I am getting less for more.

I understand the overall need for price increases over time. I understand a hamburger is going to cost more to make this year than last year in most cases, but for the cost of said burger, i do expect a better burger.

My argument on that, is the places that serve food at disney are not your typical sporting event concession stand or other theme park concession stand that is only open a limited time of the year. These are places that are open 365 days of the year, 12+ hours a day....so they should produce a better product than what they're giving you for the price point.

the food quality has gotten worse and worse, year after year.

I'm not ok with the constant ticket and room increases while offering less of a product. I'm usually itching to plan a trip and cant wait to go back, we're skipping this year because of the price gouging, and are going in 2023 only because we promised the kids we were. We know that we have to start talking about planning that trip at some point in the next few months, and i'm dreading it. I want nothing to do with planning this trip. I know its going to cost me a crap ton of money for less of a product.

I'm over it. Even the disney commercials on tv seem to have lost their magic.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I would agree that while price increases aren't awesome I'm more willing to roll with them. But we really do need to get amenities back and for some to just get better overall. The loss of DME really bothered me. Park hopping still being after 2PM is pretty awful too. I am not a fan of Genie+ and the loss of FP+. The park reservation system is starting to irk slightly too, I understood it's initial need, but we are long past that.

The increase in price for a mickey pretzel or a hamburger or whatnot doesn't bother me nearly as much as the feeling that I am getting less for more.

DME is still a conundrum for me. As a business person, I LOVED DME. I was a big fan of the Disney bubble and I argued for YEARS how important it was that people not have cars because if they had a car, they were more likely to go somewhere else. When Disney moved off of 3 day tickets and started pushing 7 day tickets, I was one of the biggest fans about Disney trying to lock you in for the entire duration of your vacation. On the other hand, having been on the inside of DME and very knowledgeable about it's workings, I understand WHY it's gone away. I truly and completely get it. In many ways, it was the ONLY decision that could be made. So DME really tears me up.

I can't speak to Genie+ as I haven't tried it yet - but ask me again in 3 weeks and I will tell you. I had a love/hate with FP+. It was generally good to me because I stay for a week when I go. It was not so good for those with shorter trips and I understand the frustration with it. Plus, we have known Genie was coming for YEARS. So it's hardly a surprise.

I am annoyed by the park reservation, but just annoyed. It's a nuance, but since I generally had to plan my park ANYWAY, eh.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Disney Parks attendance is hard to pin down but more crowded common areas in the parks doesn’t necessarily mean booming attendance with some attractions still closed. See this article:

https://insidethemagic.net/2022/01/disney-world-attendance-problem-ab1/

That article is basing it based on theme parks in general, and their evidence that Disney may have an attendance problem is based on the fact that Disney is offering discounts. However, anyone who has tried to book can tell you that the hotels at least at packed. I can't tell you how attendance at the parks is, but from a hotel standpoint, Disney simply can't take much more than they have right now - which is my point that people ARE going. Clearly Disney is not having a problem getting people to visit.

My evidence? Simple. Just doing some random searches for random weeks for an average family of 4.






Not even the value resorts have any availability.


I can find rooms for odd days (2-3 day trips). I can find SOME rooms at the larger places (like AKL). But right now, you defiantly are going to have to do some searching to get the right rom at the right place at the right time. Now yes, if I extend out to April and May, I can start finding more availability - but that's to be expected. Even then, the resorts are pretty booked up for what is average searching 2 months out.

That to me just doesn't jive with "people are not bringing their kids to Disney". Given the 2 options:
1. Subjective statements by people on a message board that believe no one is going to Disney
vs
2. Objective information gathered from Disney's website that shows that there is limited availability

I choose to believe option 2.

 

[Mceee]

I understand the overall need for price increases over time. I understand a hamburger is going to cost more to make this year than last year in most cases, but for the cost of said burger, i do expect a better burger.

My argument on that, is the places that serve food at disney are not your typical sporting event concession stand or other theme park concession stand that is only open a limited time of the year. These are places that are open 365 days of the year, 12+ hours a day....so they should produce a better product than what they're giving you for the price point.

the food quality has gotten worse and worse, year after year.

I'm not ok with the constant ticket and room increases while offering less of a product. I'm usually itching to plan a trip and cant wait to go back, we're skipping this year because of the price gouging, and are going in 2023 only because we promised the kids we were. We know that we have to start talking about planning that trip at some point in the next few months, and i'm dreading it. I want nothing to do with planning this trip. I know its going to cost me a crap ton of money for less of a product.

I'm over it. Even the disney commercials on tv seem to have lost their magic.

I am sooo in agreement with you. My son is now 34. My wife and I started taking him to WDW once every two years when he was 5 (sometimes more often than that). In September 2021 we went for the first time in a few years and took our 7 year old granddaughter (our son went as well). While we all had a good time, whenever we discuss the trip now, we always end up at 2 stand out points. 1: it has become waaay too expensive to go WDW and 2: the food was horrible. Don't misunderstand me... WDW has never been a place we go because they have such great food, but it has never been something that stood out as 'bad'. This trip, it was bad - and very expensive.

 

[cccory]

As long as people continue paying the prices, the prices will continue to rise. I wonder how these families do it. Luckily, are kids are mostly grown and we don't go as often as we use to.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I am sooo in agreement with you. My son is now 34. My wife and I started taking him to WDW once every two years when he was 5 (sometimes more often than that). In September 2021 we went for the first time in a few years and took our 7 year old granddaughter (our son went as well). While we all had a good time, whenever we discuss the trip now, we always end up at 2 stand out points. 1: it has become waaay too expensive to go WDW and 2: the food was horrible. Don't misunderstand me... WDW has never been a place we go because they have such great food, but it has never been something that stood out as 'bad'. This trip, it was bad - and very expensive.

i'll be honest, when we started going in 2008, one of the big things was for us were the ADRs and where we were going to eat. The food was really good at a lot of sit down places.

the price has skyrocketed over the years and the food quality has declined.

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

That to me just doesn't jive with "people are not bringing their kids to Disney". Given the 2 options:
1. Subjective statements by people on a message board that believe no one is going to Disney
vs
2. Objective information gathered from Disney's website that shows that there is limited availability

I choose to believe option 2.

Like I said, attendance is always a guesstimate as I don't think there's a place to find solid numbers on it. If there's evidence that people are flocking to Disney, I'm not arguing, I was just saying I'm not sure this is the case. Maybe it is though.

Regarding how attendance plays out in the future - I think that's anybody's guess. I've just never seen so many complaints about overall negative feelings about Disney vacations as I have at this point in time, but that may or may not translate into attendance dipping.

 

[New Mouse]

Another thing I'm noticing while here. Basic Merchandise has skyrocketed to Gucci price levels with the same sweatshop quality. I was here a few months back and it has gone down hill FAST.

 

[browneyedgirl1683]

Another thing I'm noticing while here. Basic Merchandise has skyrocketed to Gucci price levels with the same sweatshop quality. I was here a few months back and it has gone down hill FAST.

Can I ask what prices you are seeing? Hoping we will be able to make our Feburary trip, and am planning a budget for souvenirs. I'm guessing the lack of Disney Stores makes it easier to charge more onsite.

 

[MiraclesTakeTime]

Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you on some of your other points, I do believe that Disney is somewhat resting on it's laurels. Competition is a good thing and I honestly think that very few people disagree with you. All of us would like to see enough jump in some of the metrics to make the exec's heart skip a beat and force the company to be more innovative - not just in attractions, but also in how the company is run.

As much as I defend the price increases and give them a little leeway due to COVID, I would like to see on-site perks be better than they are - especially (selfishly) for DVC. I want character hugs back; because I love hugging Joy. I actually do not care about the price increases as much even though it eats into my wallet (and I took a significant paycut as part of covid, so it admissibly hurts a lot). But I do want magical moments. Not saying there are none - I still think you make your own magic. But I want back those things that only Disney can do. Plus - I will say it again, I want Disney Florist back. I mean it. I want it and I want it NOW.

You make some great points here. As someone who is considering DVC, I was surprised that there were more perks to membership.

 

[k5xs]

That article is basing it based on theme parks in general, and their evidence that Disney may have an attendance problem is based on the fact that Disney is offering discounts. However, anyone who has tried to book can tell you that the hotels at least at packed. I can't tell you how attendance at the parks is, but from a hotel standpoint, Disney simply can't take much more than they have right now - which is my point that people ARE going. Clearly Disney is not having a problem getting people to visit.

My evidence? Simple. Just doing some random searches for random weeks for an average family of 4.

Not even the value resorts have any availability.

I can find rooms for odd days (2-3 day trips). I can find SOME rooms at the larger places (like AKL). But right now, you defiantly are going to have to do some searching to get the right rom at the right place at the right time. Now yes, if I extend out to April and May, I can start finding more availability - but that's to be expected. Even then, the resorts are pretty booked up for what is average searching 2 months out.

2. Objective information gathered from Disney's website that shows that there is limited availability

I choose to believe option 2.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but are you sure the properties you are showing are fully open? Is it possible WDW has consciously limited room inventories to control staffing costs or because they can't hire enough housekeepers or other resort CMs?

 

[amylevan]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but are you sure the properties you are showing are fully open? Is it possible WDW has consciously limited room inventories to control staffing costs or because they can't hire enough housekeepers or other resort CMs?

I’m still in a February trip Facebook group and a whole bunch of people just had their hotels moved. A lot. So no, the hotels are definitely not 100% open.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I’m still in a February trip Facebook group and a whole bunch of people just had their hotels moved. A lot. So no, the hotels are definitely not 100% open.

We've been going for years and have never seen hotel rooms this hard to get, its been like that since they opened back up in 2020. I could be wrong, but in our trip in June, it sure didnt feel like the parks were at pre-pandemic levels. i dont believe hotels are all opened up.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but are you sure the properties you are showing are fully open? Is it possible WDW has consciously limited room inventories to control staffing costs or because they can't hire enough housekeepers or other resort CMs?

To the contrary, I am sure they are not 100% open. The hotel side of AKL just opened and they have been distancing rooms for a good part. However, as much as they are able to open is being sold out. Which is back to my point - Disney has all the crowd they want and maybe a little more than they want. Which to me doesn't fit the narrative that the parks are empty and no one is going or bringing their kids and the business is hovering on the verge of collapse. As far as I can tell based on every metric I have access to, the supply is being mostly taken up by demand and there is more demand than there is supply. A little park availability doesn't really surprise me, but since the products (Hotels, Genie+, ADR's, etc) are holding at as much capacity as is released, and by all optics if they opened more, that would be taken up quickly that to me is more telling.

I.E. is there ANY doubt in here that if they wanted to sell another 5% ADR's, those wouldn't be gone within seconds? Or Hotel rooms?

This is just not a place that right now is suffering from no demand.

 

[k5xs]

To the contrary, I am sure they are not 100% open. The hotel side of AKL just opened and they have been distancing rooms for a good part. However, as much as they are able to open is being sold out. Which is back to my point - Disney has all the crowd they want and maybe a little more than they want. Which to me doesn't fit the narrative that the parks are empty and no one is going or bringing their kids and the business is hovering on the verge of collapse. As far as I can tell based on every metric I have access to, the supply is being mostly taken up by demand and there is more demand than there is supply. A little park availability doesn't really surprise me, but since the products (Hotels, Genie+, ADR's, etc) are holding at as much capacity as is released, and by all optics if they opened more, that would be taken up quickly that to me is more telling.

I.E. is there ANY doubt in here that if they wanted to sell another 5% ADR's, those wouldn't be gone within seconds? Or Hotel rooms?

This is just not a place that right now is suffering from no demand.

I have seen no one here saying “the parks are empty,” “no one is going or bringing their kids, “the business is hovering on the verge of collapse,” or that there is “no demand.” So I think you are misrepresenting what several people here are saying.

I don’t know that anyone knows for sure, but the most common figures I have seen for the percentage of park guests who stay on property is 33-35%. If that’s the case (but I’m not sure it is), do you really think it makes sense to infer that “Disney has all the crowd they want and maybe a little more than they want” based on a few anecdotal examples of unavailable rooms in resorts operating at capacities no one here knows?

Extrapolating to the absurd, what if the resorts were operating at 5% capacity? Would it be fair to conclude that because rooms were unavailable, that in its parks “Disney has all the crowd they want and maybe a little more than they want”? I don’t think it would be. Again, it’s an admittedly absurd example, but who knows the capacity at which resorts are operating? And more to the point, resort occupancy is probably not the driving indicator of park attendance.

I think many people are getting disillusioned with Disney’s current management of WDW. I know I am. As frequent attendee for over 30 years, I feel that today I’m being taken advantage of. Prices are up and services are down. And there seems to be a steady stream of bad news for guests.

Right now I’m operating on the fumes of fond memories, trying my best to remain positive and to believe “this too will pass.” I may be alone in that, but I don’t think I am. If my sentiments are shared by a lot of people, and if Disney doesn’t change course, they may be setting themselves up in a bad way long term. I suppose time will tell.