Buyer Beware- members are losing points over the COVID-19 situation

[TraderSamWDW]

Its like the old adage about there being 2 types of medical issues, major and minor, and they they are happening to you they are all major.

What I get out of this if you like to travel at different times of the year, and can not afford multiple contracts, then DVC isn't for you.

It does seem like these once in a lifetime events are happening once in a life time of a fruit fly.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It's similarly fair to point out that these are unprecedented circumstances which have not occurred in the 30 year history of DVC. Only a small fraction of members are poised to lose points at this stage. And if we all lost 1 set of points over the 50-year term of the contract, we'd still be doing quite well.

If I recall correctly @Dean used to surmise that the loss of one years worth of points likely negated any financial benefits of DVC. I haven't done analysis myself and he apparently has stopped posting on the DIS but it certainly doesn't help. And what doesn't help is that it is that the "price" of the pandemic is being placed on the shoulders of a few.

 

[LAX]

If I recall correctly @Dean used to surmise that the loss of one years worth of points likely negated any financial benefits of DVC. I haven't done analysis myself and he apparently has stopped posting on the DIS but it certainly doesn't help. And what doesn't help is that it is that the "price" of the pandemic is being placed on the shoulders of a few.

I am not challenging validity of the claim, but I imagine those that went the resale route would be much better positioned to sustain such loss than those that purchased direct, especially at the more recent inflated (in my opinion anyway) prices.

No one wants to lose any point, let alone a year's worth. But that's part of the deal that DVC offers. I am willing to bet that DVD/DVC counts on some breakage as part of the its "profit" strategy. Much like many retailers happily sell GCs at a discount because a decent number of consumers end up not redeeming them for a number of reasons.

LAX

 

[Heather07438]

If I recall correctly @Dean used to surmise that the loss of one years worth of points likely negated any financial benefits of DVC. I haven't done analysis myself and he apparently has stopped posting on the DIS but it certainly doesn't help. And what doesn't help is that it is that the "price" of the pandemic is being placed on the shoulders of a few.

That makes me think the cost of owning DVC only saves 2% off alternative comparable stays then? I must be missing something.

 

[LAX]

That makes me think the cost of owning DVC only saves 2% off alternative comparable stays then? I must be missing something.

I am not sure how you are defining alternative comparable stays, but if you are referring to quality of accommodations, I have read reports where other time shares/hotels in the area that are nicer and bigger actually cost less. However, it's difficult to find "comparable" accommodations if you are talking about staying onsite and the benefits that come with it.

LAX

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

That makes me think the cost of owning DVC only saves 2% off alternative comparable stays then? I must be missing something.

I do think the statement was made at least a couple of years ago. Not certain I could find it to see if there was more explanation. He did tend to have a good financial analysis of DVC though.

 

[Aussie RJ]

What I get out of this if you like to travel at different times of the year, and can not afford multiple contracts, then DVC isn't for you.

Thats a fair argument right now, but come fall/winter and this thing is still locking down vast communities. Shall we all still say "you didn't use your points in the first month of your UY, so...."

 

[Matty B13]

If I recall correctly @Dean used to surmise that the loss of one years worth of points likely negated any financial benefits of DVC. I haven't done analysis myself and he apparently has stopped posting on the DIS but it certainly doesn't help. And what doesn't help is that it is that the "price" of the pandemic is being placed on the shoulders of a few.

Also, probably only pertains to studios, I think for a family of 5, like mine is that has to reserve 2 hotel rooms or a suite, you are saving a decent amount of money. I think when I first was looking at staying in bigger rooms at Disney I saw the prices for the cash Villa rooms for 1 bedrooms which were over $1000/night at the time. Thankfully I did some more research and found the DVC forums.

 

[rkstocke5609]

What I have suggested, and have done so for years, is that traveling late in a UY is risky and that when purchasing, its one of the main things to consider,

The closer to the beginning of a UY, the more options that you have,

So, those that used banked points with 2 weeks left on them, made a choice to put them at severe risk of losing them. I am not sure what is inaccurate about that statement,

People who chose to travel outside the banking window made A choice to give up their ability to bank. Not sure what is inaccurate about that,

I have said multiple times that I feel for people who are now faced with this, but I don’t agree that someone can claim that they had no idea it was a risk, simply because they didn’t imagine a virus.


My March trip was made with borrowed points from my Dec UY...that was a safe move because I had lots of time to move it if something happened, It is now in Aug. More risky, but we decided to try it, even though I still have borrowed points. So, I am taking a larger risk. If that is canceled, and those points dont go back, I know I could lose them,

Banked points are a use or lose regardless, so yes, people with Sept UY who can't reschedule could lose them...but at least, they gave themselves more than a 2 to 10 week chance to reschedule

I have also shared I own 3 UYs because I understood those risks, and wanted to no have to worry, even though 3 memberships is a lot more work,

So, my advice to new buyers is to really consider UY and it’s effect on membership if you have normal times of travel,

Given the current situation, it’s even more important. Since this is a purchasing thread, I intend to share that opinion.

This is exactly correct. I anticipated March (Spring Break) would be our norm until my daughter is off on her own. So, I chose a February use year. Now, this years March waitlist into VGC never came to pass, so in January I cancelled airfare and have a $1000 credit (which I will likely lose when my small hometown airline goes bankrupt because of Corona). Then, I redirected those points into a Christmas trip. If that blows up, then I will likely lose those points, but those are the breaks as they say...

 

[Aussie RJ]

I'm not sure I read that as "all but committed." They have said they will evaluate. Evaluating isn't committing to taking an action other than assessment. If the assessment comes up as "no good options, sorry" that will fulfill what they have said they'll do.

This is a very careful corporate statement. There is no commitment to any compensatory action.

They will do something.. That I'm sure. As this effects more and more of the membership. First guess, really cheap cash rooms at Rivera.

 

[CheapMom]

Yeah, I'm not so sure they are going to do anything. I'm fairly certain they don't have to do anything contractually speaking. But, is it a sound financial decision for them to do something to make their current members satisfied and keep that high member satifaction rating that they can tout to potential buyers? I'm pretty sure that's how they will decide if they should invest in some form of compensation.

 

[Soap_1984]

Yeah, I'm not so sure they are going to do anything. I'm fairly certain they don't have to do anything contractually speaking. But, is it a sound financial decision for them to do something to make their current members satisfied and keep that high member satifaction rating that they can tout to potential buyers? I'm pretty sure that's how they will decide if they should invest in some form of compensation.

I'm not worried I will be compensated for my lost points one way or another. Any lawyer knows you try and build a contract so it is your choice what to do; that is far from pointing to a contract and saying I don't have to do anything so that is what I am doing. We have no obligation to our customers on warranty all the time and still do it because our customers matter to us.

Like someone else said, if I lose a year and half worth of points, it blows up my value. I'm focusing on getting through this and I am certain dvc, like the rest of disney, will do the right thing. People on here seem to forget that points are just that: a made up thing that represents money/accommodations. This isn't PhD level financial engineering to figure out appropriate compensation and I understand disney waiting to see how many are impacted before a final decision is made. Dvc members are the most loyal disney patrons there are, to treat them far worse than a random guest who gets a full refund just makes no sense. These threads are filled with the same people over and over just stating why nothing will happen but they have never run a business before and spend all day on here pontificating about nonsense that doesn't even affect them. They talk about dvc contracts like it was carved into tablets by the hand of god himself lol. It's a piece of paper with words; I can squash a spider if I want but I choose not to and I instead catch them and place them outside my house.

Compensation is no more a legal question for dvc than it is for any other faction of disney refunding guests that take a trip to Disney once every 5-10 years or less. The shocking thing is how mean spirited people are on here but again it's people who don't understand business or finance, so I say those who are "losing points" just stay patient and don't let these people ruin your day.

Good luck to everyone through this whole situation let's hope things continue to improve.

 

[tony67]

That makes me think the cost of owning DVC only saves 2% off alternative comparable stays then? I must be missing something.

I looked at DVC a very long time ago in the 90s - back when you got free tickets with your stays through I think 2000.
(Why am I here then? - a friend asked me to keep an eye on what is happening as he bought into DVC and is concerned about his points)

I did the math and looked at the fees and felt that it just did not make sense for me.
I'm sure it makes sense for others.

Seems to me if you are all the "owners" you should have some say in how this is dealt with - but it seems to me you don't.
There is the issue is with affecting the economy of the points that will make it difficult to get rooms if there is a glut of points- I get that.

Disney will most likely have a lot of rooms they cant use for the next year. Maybe they need to allow people to use the "expired" points towards a room or package reservation and not DVC. At least if they have you in a room on property they can sell you food ticket etc...
Not perfect I'm sure.

They need to address this in a way to not affect future DVC sales, not mess with the economy and share the burden with the "owners"

 

[jarestel]

A lot of posters continue to confuse Disney (the corporation), with DVC (the timeshare unit). Disney (the corporation) doesn't own the DVC properties. The DVC members (us) own the properties and we contract and pay for services from Disney (the corporation) like cleaning, maintenance, transportation, running the resorts, and so forth and so on. That's an important distinction to keep in mind as we try to work through this current mess.

I have confidence that DVC will be able to come up with a workable (not perfect) plan and that plan may involve deals with Disney (the corporation). But comparing DVC members to cash guests and expecting that Disney (the corporation) somehow owes us reparations isn't realistic. Even though the tone of the post may not seem so, I am still optimistic, but patience may be required before we see any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Heather07438]

I looked at DVC a very long time ago in the 90s - back when you got free tickets with your stays through I think 2000.
(Why am I here then? - a friend asked me to keep an eye on what is happening as he bought into DVC and is concerned about his points)

I did the math and looked at the fees and felt that it just did not make sense for me.
I'm sure it makes sense for others.

Seems to me if you are all the "owners" you should have some say in how this is dealt with - but it seems to me you don't.
There is the issue is with affecting the economy of the points that will make it difficult to get rooms if there is a glut of points- I get that.

Disney will most likely have a lot of rooms they cant use for the next year. Maybe they need to allow people to use the "expired" points towards a room or package reservation and not DVC. At least if they have you in a room on property they can sell you food ticket etc...
Not perfect I'm sure.

They need to address this in a way to not affect future DVC sales, not mess with the economy and share the burden with the "owners"

I can see that gap closing in a bit again if WDW offers fantastic cash packages to get people into the parks over the next year. Saving 50% on accommodations with DVC won't be as attractive as 25-30% savings off room/tickets/food combined.

 

[sethschroeder]

Seems to me if you are all the "owners" you should have some say in how this is dealt with - but it seems to me you don't.

Except I wouldn't change any of the rules if I had the power. The rules are there to protect the full membership for cases like this. Its to prevent points from overwhelming the system and pushing points out of the system that were not used in a timely manner via expiration.

Sucks but points to why everyone should be moving to borrowing instead of banking points.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Except I wouldn't change any of the rules if I had the power. The rules are there to protect the full membership for cases like this. Its to prevent points from overwhelming the system and pushing points out of the system that were not used in a timely manner via expiration.

Sucks but points to why everyone should be moving to borrowing instead of banking points.

I feel the same. Owner tend to forget that they bought into A timeshare nothing more nothing less.

Timeshares comes with a risk and owners also tend to forget that as well.

Disney don’t owe us anything due to the current crisis.

I’d rather lose some points now than risk the membership and availability in the years to come.

If Disney and DVC can come up with an arrangement so members can use the expiring points with Disney then that’s great. However the whole membership should not pay for that solution if there are any costs associated with it. Only impacted members should.

We also have to remember that not all April and June points are impacted by this, some was used prior to this luckily.

However some with later UY’s as August, September and later might have cancelled their March, April and May vacation and banked the points. That would be a just as big problem as there are now more points in the system as there otherwise would.

The suspension of banking and maybe borrowing could come into play together with an increase of point cost for booking anything else than your home resort. This would basically mean that if anyone wished to book BWV in January 2021 then instead of paying ie 10 points per night for a std studio the cost would now be ie. 15 points for anyone not using BWV points.

 

[sethschroeder]

This would basically mean that if anyone wished to book BWV in January 2021 then instead of paying ie 10 points per night for a std studio the cost would now be ie. 15 points for anyone not using BWV points.

I am not really sure how I feel about it. I would need way more information on the exchange rates and if how MFs would work.

 

[Sandisw]

I am not really sure how I feel about it. I would need way more information on the exchange rates and if how MFs would work.

It is apparently part of the authority BVTC has. They can create new 7 month charts for non home resort bookings. They don’t have to maintain the total point balance.

So, it is a way to eat up points in the system. I don’t think it would impact MFs, I don’t have the actual BVTC document to see exactly why it says

 

[Cyberc1978]

It is apparently part of the authority BVTC has. They can create new 7 month charts for non home resort bookings. They don’t have to maintain the total point balance.

So, it is a way to eat up points in the system. I don’t think it would impact MFs, I don’t have the actual BVTC document to see exactly why it says

It would be a good way to “eat” the extra points in the system.

assuming they did this either people wouldn’t rent 7 months out or everyone would rent 11-7+1day.

People owning a lot of SAP would be pretty angry as it would more than dilute their “investment” but you can’t have the cake and eat it too.