Anyone else given up on the possibility of cruising

[Starwind]

Well, I'm not sure how they can. In order to comply with the PVSA, the have to stop in a foreign port for the cruise to be legal. Now, there was a time when cruise ships would make "technical stops" in places like Ensenada (on Hawaii cruises) for a couple of hours to complete paperwork (but no debarking passengers), but about 4-5 years ago it was ruled that "stopping in a foreign port" means they have to allow passengers to get off the ship in port.

I wonder if they just intend to pay the fine ?

However I do also wonder how they plan to get around "Canadian waters" which is what the ban applies to; it would require a fair bit of sailing out of their way. e.g. no Canadian Inside Passage.

SW

 

[DIS_MIKE]

I'm just rolling with it for now and staying optimistic knowing my cruise at the end of August will likely be canceled. I am quite used to it as this will be my second cruise that has been canceled.

I will never give up the opportunity to cruise but I feel it is a good strategy to be an observer from the sidelines for a little while. At first I was going to just switch everything to a WDW vacation but once Disney came out with that long list of changes and so many removed experiences I had to pass. The biggest no go for me is their mask requirement; I just cannot handle it in the FL heat for all of those hours.

Back to cruising....
I feel pretty confident at this point and hopefully I am able to find a cruise for next year with the same room category & price point. I desperately want to get back on board like so many others at this point.

 

[CamColt]

After reading through the posts here, I just want to remind everyone, let's keep this thread on topic, and just answer the question.

 

[cruisehopeful]

We sadly did give up on the prospect of cruising. We had a couple little cruises booked for April and October. I knew we weren't going to do the April one, but waited for Disney to cancel so we could get 100% refund. I canceled the October one about the same and it was far enough to get all my deposit back.

Our lifestyles make it very difficult and rare to take a full week or longer off for travel. We were doing the short cruises out of home port because it worked for our lifestyle. Knowing that we could get quarantined for 14 days doesn't work for us at all. I have no idea what would happen to our business and our pets if we were gone that long. Until our lives change drastically, which I don't foresee happening, we won't be cruising. I still keep trying to live vicariously through everyone else's cruise plans, though.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...-ship/cruise-ship-member-disembarkations.html

Suggests that Fantasy and Dream are basically empty. We know Wonder is repatriating crew right now, but their numbers wouldn't report here save for CMs who were allowed off in San Diego, which was limited. I suspect the Dream and Wonder are tag-teaming around healthy vs. quarantined positive tests right now but without paperwork filed it's hard to say for sure. They're both Provisional Red to Fantasy's Provisional Green, so either someone's not filing paperwork or there have been cases. And why not file paperwork unless... especially since Fantasy appears nearly up to date.

We know the Magic is empty.

I said this on another thread, but the protocol to bring crew back at its most optimistic has crew embarking 60+ days before sail. Given that Dream and Wonder are still repatriating, and no one is getting on the Fantasy, that 60+ day timer isn't primed yet, let alone running.

Puts us into September already for most optimistic expectation of sail. (Technically, 60 days from today is in August, but that would be assuming they're bringing crew onboard the Fantasy, and that would require CDC okay, which hasn't happened, so we know it's not happening right now. I would not expect a broad approval to do such while the No Sail is in place.)

 

[T & R]

the protocol to bring crew back at its most optimistic has crew embarking 60+ days before sail.

Why 60+ days to staff the ship prior to sail?

 

[Donna3271]

I'm not hopeful through winter 2021. Maybe summer.

I still can't see how cruising can be successfully restarted until there is either a solution or widescale agreement to accept the risks of the virus and move on with living. The first is likely still many months off, if not years, and there is little evidence the second will ever happen.

There is so much talk of restrictions and face masks and whatnot, and I get that, but I also think it sidesteps the real issues. How many people are actually going to travel while there is still a risk that if anyone on the cruise spikes a fever then everyone will be confined to quarters, or if someone tests positive for COVID passengers will not be allowed to disembark? How many times will that happen before cruise lines find themselves with empty ships?

My guess is not many. I hope I'm wrong.

This is my fear.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Why 60+ days to staff the ship prior to sail?

Realistically, to bring crew on board with an eye to passenmger service thee ship must be in Green status:

• No confirmed cases of COVID-19 or COVID-like illness for 28 days, as determined by a qualified medical professional.
  [*]If the ship received ship-to-ship transfers within the past 28 days, crew must have come from a ship that had no confirmed COVID-19 or COVID-like illness within the 28 days before the transfer occurred.
  [*]If land-based crew embarked, they were immediately quarantined for 14 days upon embarking the ship.

Note: To maintain Green status, ships must submit a weekly EDC form to CDC. Failure to submit, changes ship status to Red. Green ship status means that CDC believes the ship is currently unaffected by COVID-19 based on information provided by the cruise ship operator.

Once onboard, to maintain Green status the crew member must be quarantined for 14 days. In that time, no one can test positive, or it takes the ship to Red status and restarts any timers to be Green again. Yellow is "symptoms pending testing." (See https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/management/interim-guidance-no-sail-order.html).

If you're planning to bring passengers in, you absolutely have to hedge your timing and assume that bringing 400 crew in you are unlikely to have every one quarantine clean. So add at least 28 days for that.

Only then can the crew share quarters in any way or work to prep the ship to sail.

Technically, 14+28 is 42, but you also have to provide some buffer for first on, last on, and testing.

It's worth noting the CDC has said these guidelines ONLY apply to crew operations and repatriation, but you have to view this broadly and believe that since the CDC has to approve bringing crew ONBOARD as well, and that there are quarantine rules for that, these also represent a minimum standard for crew operations that would have to be met before even thinking about passenger ops. The "clean" test status represented by Green would be a minimum standard. Given that crew cannot share quarters under Red or Yellow, and other rules in place at those status, you couldn't possibly claim safety for guests in those zones.

 

[T & R]

I do not think DCL will do anything until they know the CDC is not going to extend the no sail order. Let's say on July 25th the above process is started. So 60 days, you think we're looking at a 09/23/20 restart at the earliest? Oh no

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I wonder if they just intend to pay the fine ?

Doubtful. They risk even stiffer penalties for knowingly violating the law. Including being banned from ports.

 

[Starwind]

Doubtful. They risk even stiffer penalties for knowingly violating the law. Including being banned from ports.

Ah, good reason not to knowingly do it then !

Then yep, one wonders how they think they could possibly do those sailings.

SW

 

[monkeydawn]

Ah, good reason not to knowingly do it then !

Then yep, one wonders how they think they could possibly do those sailings.

SW

Maybe they know something we dont about the law being reviewed? That's the most realistic plan I see for that sailing. But there is still the "Canadian waters" issue.

 

[Starwind]

Maybe they know something we dont about the law being reviewed? That's the most realistic plan I see for that sailing. But there is still the "Canadian waters" issue.

Perhaps, maybe they have applied for some kind of waiver or something.

And yep the waters things will be a challenge regardless. And I don't see Canada shortening their lockout, I see them more likely to extend it further if anything.

SW

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Perhaps, maybe they have applied for some kind of waiver or something.

There are no waivers before the fact for the PVSA, unless the government enacts it. When situations occur that cause a violation (ship unable to port in required foreign port due to weather, for example) the fine is still assessed and then waived. A PVSA fine is also assessed when a person dies onboard and does not finish their cruise. That also has to have a waiver applied for after the fact.

I doubt that "because we can't port due to port closure" is a waiver-able situation.

 

[T & R]

What's the deal with not even being able to go through Canadian waters? Why would that be harmful or concerning to Canada? I remember on one of our Western Caribbean cruises on the Fantasy we were close enough to Cuba that I could see the cities and the individual cars moving on the roads. There was a pretty strict U.S. travel ban in place for Cuba at the time (and there still could be, don't know) but I thought for sure we were in Cuban waters since we were close enough to see cars. I haven't done enough research but I do not get the rules on waters and how some countries just set crazy way out rules like China claiming the whole South China Sea out to thousands of miles away from China land and then other countries setting their territorial waters only a few miles out from land. Let's take a round number for example "10 miles", would it be that hard for a ship to stay at least 10 miles or more away from Canada while going to Alaska?

 

[mevelandry]

You’re my favorite person on this thread so far

I'll take the compliment!

 

[mevelandry]

What's the deal with not even being able to go through Canadian waters? Why would that be harmful or concerning to Canada? I remember on one of our Western Caribbean cruises on the Fantasy we were close enough to Cuba that I could see the cities and the individual cars moving on the roads. There was a pretty strict U.S. travel ban in place for Cuba at the time (and there still could be, don't know) but I thought for sure we were in Cuban waters since we were close enough to see cars. I haven't done enough research but I do not get the rules on waters and how some countries just set crazy way out rules like China claiming the whole South China Sea out to thousands of miles away from China land and then other countries setting their territorial waters only a few miles out from land. Let's take a round number for example "10 miles", would it be that hard for a ship to stay at least 10 miles or more away from Canada while going to Alaska?

I don't know why... But cruise ships that carry more than 100 people are prohibited from operating in Canadian waters until October 31, 2020.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/feds-extend-cruise-ship-ban-through-the-summer-1.4960222

 

[ajo]

I don't know why... But cruise ships that carry more than 100 people are prohibited from operating in Canadian waters until October 31, 2020.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/feds-extend-cruise-ship-ban-through-the-summer-1.4960222

I posted in an earlier thread that it may be Canada wanting to avoid a situation where there are passengers/crew on board a ship who get Covid and need immediate medical attention and the nearest port is in Canada. Just a guess though.

 

[mevelandry]

I posted in an earlier thread that it may be Canada wanting to avoid a situation where there are passengers/crew on board a ship who get Covid and need immediate medical attention and the nearest port is in Canada. Just a guess though.

It actually makes a lot of sense!

 

[PrincessShmoo]

What's the deal with not even being able to go through Canadian waters? Why would that be harmful or concerning to Canada? I remember on one of our Western Caribbean cruises on the Fantasy we were close enough to Cuba that I could see the cities and the individual cars moving on the roads. There was a pretty strict U.S. travel ban in place for Cuba at the time (and there still could be, don't know) but I thought for sure we were in Cuban waters since we were close enough to see cars. I haven't done enough research but I do not get the rules on waters and how some countries just set crazy way out rules like China claiming the whole South China Sea out to thousands of miles away from China land and then other countries setting their territorial waters only a few miles out from land. Let's take a round number for example "10 miles", would it be that hard for a ship to stay at least 10 miles or more away from Canada while going to Alaska?

Probably because they don't even want the possibility that a ship may have to port in their country. For various reason - damage to the ship, international disputes, yes, even having a sick person who needs to be evacuated.