Any Reformed FP- Uber Users Who Have Embraced FP+ ?

[Suvadoo]

Mambo and Grimley ... that's exactly how our last experience went.

On previous trips there was no "running" as people report for FPs, we just walked around, pulled FPs when it made sense, didn't when it didn't. Sure there were times we would split up, and yes even times one person would criss-cross the park, I am not going to deny that. But that's just not a big deal to us. I mean, you walk like 10 miles a day at WDW parks, what's the big deal if you walk a couple hundred yards for an FP ?

Anyway, on previous trips we felt... more free. I don't know how to describe it, but I am sure even those most ardent FP+ proponent will agree that there have been MANY posts here about how people felt locked in, constrained, etc. The same way FP- detractors talk about how they felt they needed to split up or run or ... whatever (don't mean this dismissively). We still kept our FPs though, we had noticed the increased SB times, it was ... very obvious to us. We recognized that if we wanted to accomplish stuff, well we had to stick to that schedule.

So yes, on previous trips we kind of did our thing during the day, and knew we had one appointment that night, but it was kind of something to look forward to. Sometimes we blew it off, but not often. Our last trip, FP+, it felt different. By the evening we just felt like we had been making appointments all day, and didn't want to make the evening one. So we wouldn't. In fact, I this beside one reservation, after a week of feeling this way we actually canceled our entire second week of ADRs in the evening. We were just sick of that feeling.

Wow, it sounds like you can relate to my statement that I left the parks in surrender not satisfation.

 

[DisneyKidds]

I think they really do, I mean, reallllly low crowds, you are probably right. FP just doesn't matter those days, for the most part. You could still max it, and I think FP- was better for this, just because you could do what we had done, literally show up at SM ... with a 15 min wait. Pull and FP for a return starting in 15 or 20 mins. Ride once SB, then go right to the FP line and walk right one, maybe a 1 or 2 min wait. But I low, middleish crowds. I think FP- could be used to far more efficiency than FP+. Again, that might not jive with how people wanted to tour, or their style, but it could be maximized more.

I might like to explore this crowd based analysis some more.

Would it be fair to say, despite all the varying experiences both positive and negative, we can agree that:

1. FP+ has some demonstrated benefit to guests during busy times of year.

2. During slow times of year FP+ and FP- are somewhat of a wash, as you really don't need either.

3. Shoulder seasons fall somewhere in the middle, with the FP+ benefit of being able to schedule 3, but FP- may have made it easier to achieve FPs 3, 4, 5, 6.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Wow, it sounds like you can relate to my statement that I left the parks in surrender not satisfation.

Su....Su....Suvadoo and Shaden relating? No way! Hey, next thing you are gonna tell me is that Lake knows what they are saying!

 

[Suvadoo]

I might like to explore this crowd based analysis some more.

Would it be fair to say, despite all the varying experiences both positive and negative, we can agree that:

1. FP+ has some demonstrated benefit to guests during busy times of year.

2. During slow times of year FP+ and FP- are somewhat of a wash, as you really don't need either.

3. Shoulder seasons fall somewhere in the middle, with the FP+ benefit of being able to schedule 3, but FP- may have made it easier to achieve FPs 3, 4, 5, 6.

I know you didn't direct this to me DUH DUH, but I' ll respond:
1. FP+ has some demonstrated benefit to guests during busy times of year.
Legacy FP was also beneficial during busy times of the year. When the crowds are at 8-10's RD is the very best strategy for getting the most rides and attractions completed before 10am. FP+ benefits Disney during busy times, but not necessarily the guests

2. During slow times of year FP+ and FP- are somewhat of a wash, as you really don't need either. On past visits during slower times we would pull a FP for Soarin', SM, or TSMM. Be able to ride SB with little or no wait and then us FP to repeat rides. So Leagacy was still a benefit during slow times. Never a wash.

3. Shoulder seasons fall somewhere in the middle, with the FP+ benefit of being able to schedule 3, but FP- may have made it easier to achieve FPs 3, 4, 5, 6. Legacy made it easier when crowds were at 5 or 6 because you could still pull FP's for headliners only and the rest of the rides were SB. FP+ has increased SB wait times for 2nd tier attractions.

In all of these scenarios, FP+ makes guests think they must adhere to a schedule, that SB lines have increased, and the parks are more crowded.
None of these things may be true. But no matter what anyone says, an individual's experience trumps all. If guests are feeling scheduled and regimented by FP+ then that is their reality. No statistics are going to change that.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Never mind. I was hoping to, maybe, move somewhere beyond subjective personal judgements and evaluate things at a broader level......but I fear that's futile.

 

[Suvadoo]

Never mind. I was hoping to, maybe, move somewhere beyond subjective personal judgements and evaluate things at a broader level......but I fear that's futile.

What benefit does that serve when everyone is having a subjective experience when they visit the parks? It's exactly the reason you love FP+, because it enhances your experience. This is a subjective evaluation of the system.
I don't understand how you expect people to evaluate a system on a broader level when you are talking about vacations. It doesn't matter what the system is trying to acheive or the reality of hard facts. It's my vacation and my experience that matters, nothing else. And, I believe that's true for anyone who's going on vacation.

 

[DisneyKidds]

What benefit does that serve when everyone is having a subjective experience when they visit the parks? It's exactly the reason you love FP+, because it enhances your experience...........It doesn't matter what the system is trying to acheive or the reality of hard facts. It's my vacation and my experience that matters, nothing else.

Hey, when Disney spends a billion plus dollars on a system, it's kinda nice, if not necessary, to take a step back from the 10 million individual experiences and evaluate things on a broader scale. As someone who is very interested in TWDC beyond my subjective personal experiences, and as a shareholder. I'm interested in doing that.

Yes, I like FP+ because it's a success for me, but i know it isn't for everyone and I won't allow my personal experiences to lead me into saying it's a success overall. Yes, a lot can be accomplished with the system, but yes, the system has a bunch of negatives. Continuing to say 'I like' and 'I don't like', and having some take the next step to sweeping generalization.......well, that's tail chasing I'm not interested in any longer.

However, that doesn't mean there isn't meaningful discussion to be had if people were a little less quick to jump to a judgement that backs whatever personal, subjective point they want to make. It's my vacation and nothing else matters in looking at whether FP+ works for you, whenever it is you decide to go, but that kind of insular approach does nothing to help the discussion about whether FP+, overall across all seasons, it a net positive or negative.

Or in other words, no.....I don't just care about myself. But like I said, never mind. I miss the old Rumors and News days!

 

[Angel Ariel]

But on to your statement. Well, let me rephrase it perhaps, circa 2010...........

'Then, after having already completed my FP runner duties in the morning to get FP for BTMRR (assume you grabbed FP for Splash when you return for BTMRR ride time) and later Peter Pan (insert whatever rides fit your typical FP/runner pattern) and our whole party had cross-crossed the park several times to use our first 3 FP, and it's already late afternoon because the Peter Pan FP return was so far out, I would run/walk, sometimes literally run (but I guess that was a choice and made out of the stress) to Space Mountain (insert whatever ride fits your pattern) to get a FP, pray pray pray the FP machines aren't covered and that the return time doesn't conflict with dinner (or whatever other plans you might have) because if it doesn't I gotta run to the next FP ride we want, and if the machines aren't covered and the return time works........wait, get to the machine, pray pray pray it spits out the FP (yes, there is a CM there for a reason, because any tech can be glitchy, and FP machines often were), after which we have a lot of time to kill until the return time, and finally head to the FP, and then repeat.'

I hope you get my point. How is FP+ really any different worse than what you had to do with FP-. Heck, I think the circa 2010 FP story sounds a bit more stressful! While the steps might be different, are the overall processes required under FP+ really all that different? There is a lot of work/stress in either, no?

No, for us there was not the work/stress in using legacy as written above.

We did not criss cross the parks - neither to use FPs nor to get them. We toured by land picking up FPs as we went. Aside from TSMM/Soarin'/TT, we never experienced other headliners running out of FP until well past dinner time. If the FP was a little ways out, say for Space Mtn, we'd pick up the FP - maybe ride SB (depending on wait), ride Buzz, see the Laugh Floor, ride PeopleMover, etc - however much we could fit in before the return time, then we'd go back to Space and use the FP.

We did not use FP runners. With how we toured above, it wasn't necessary.

We did not "pray" that return times didn't conflict - we checked that on our phones before ever going to the FP kiosk. The current return time being given out was information available on various apps - including Disney's predecessor to MDE, Mobile Magic. Even if it was 15 mins or so before we got to the kiosk, the times were not drastically different than what we'd seen on the phone before we got there. a 5 or 10 min difference in window time wasn't a big deal.

We also never experienced glitches with legacy FP (not saying they didn't happen, we just didn't experience them. We didn't with FP+ either).

So yes, for us, getting FP+ 4,5,6 is much different than legacy.

We criss crossed the park to use FP+ more on this trip than we ever have before. I will do my best to adjust my planning so that doesn't happen as badly on our next trip, yes, having learned from those mistakes.

For *us*, though (as that's all I can speak to), FP+ was much more work/stress than legacy ever was.

ETA: And FTR I did see your other post saying you don't want to talk about personal experiences anymore. However, you *asked* in your post to Shaden how FP+ is any different than legacy - I'm simply answering that question as well.

 

[MrInfinity]

2. On past visits during slower times we would pull a FP for Soarin', SM, or TSMM. Be able to ride SB with little or no wait and then us FP to repeat rides.

This is an interesting point. So under FP-, your typical Epcot day would be...

Get there, pull a FP- ticket (say, you get 11am return window), ride by standby at 9 (done by 9:30), ride by standby again at 9:30 (done by 10:20), then kill a little time, then come back at 11, ride by FP at 11, then go see what other fast passes are available (possibly test track) and pull one of those, and get a return window for maybe 3pm, and ride that via FP-, is that pretty accurate? Feel free to assume whatever return windows you would have typically gotten, not the ones I picked at random.

What if this could be done just the same, but electronically... would you like it then? Like if say instead of pulling a ticket, you did it by your bands, but could get just as many as you used to. If that was the case, would you prefer FP+ for the purely conservation aspect of not wasting paper?

 

[Angel Ariel]

What if this could be done just the same, but electronically... would you like it then? Like if say instead of pulling a ticket, you did it by your bands, but could get just as many as you used to. If that was the case, would you prefer FP+ for the purely conservation aspect of not wasting paper?

To answer this for me - I have no issues with the system being electronic. I really liked the Magic Bands themselves. I have issues with the restrictions of the system compared to legacy.

 

[Robo]

would you prefer FP+ for the purely conservation aspect of not wasting paper?

Will the planet live an extra day due to fewer FP chits?

What amount of electricity must be generated to charge the batteries
of thousands of smart phones now tuned to FP+?

 

[MrInfinity]

To answer this for me - I have no issues with the system being electronic. I really liked the Magic Bands themselves. I have issues with the restrictions of the system compared to legacy.

Which restrictions in particular? Is it the one headliner at Epcot / HS mainly? Or the limit of 3 at MK?

 

[flicx]

Will the planet live an extra day due to fewer FP chits?

What amount of electricity must be generated to charge the batteries
of thousands of smart phones now tuned to FP+?

Very good point robo!

 

[erc]

Yay! This thread is now heading to the rhetorical minefield of Global Warming debate.

 

[DisneyKidds]

No, for us there was not the work/stress in using legacy as written above. We did not criss cross the parks - neither to use FPs nor to get them.

Well a lot of people did, especially the uber-users, who this thread was focused on. Maybe 2010 didn't go back far enough, but you couldn't always check return times on your phone. Just because you didn't have FP- days like I described, it doesn't mean lots of other people didn't. Doesn't mean I didn't.

Point is, for a large number of guests FP- required work, and running, and stress......just like a large number of guests find under FP+.

Potato, po-tah-toe.....tomato, to-mah-toe......let's call the whole thing off!

 

[Angel Ariel]

Which restrictions in particular? Is it the one headliner at Epcot / HS mainly? Or the limit of 3 at MK?

Both.

We'd easily get 6-8 FP in a day at MK, and we were not uber users to the extent that we completely maximized legacy by any stretch.

Epcot is less of an issue for us, as DH hates TT (and so did my older nephew). We have, though, gotten 2 FPs for Soarin' in 1 day, with the first window being 11ish, the second being 1:30ish. My nephews enjoyed riding it more than once.

In DHS we'd generally ride TSMM twice, and also get FPs for TOT, RNRC, and a BUNCH of FPs for Star Tours (which is great with Star Wars obsessed nephews).

As I said in my response to DisneyKidds -it was easy to see what FP availability was on Disney's Mobile Magic app with legacy. Now, in order to find out what is even *available* for a 4,5,6th FP+ I have to go to a "centralized" kiosk (which aren't very centralized, nor incredibly visible).

Also, overall we just prefer to make ride decisions *in the park*. We did not find there to be as much flexibility to change times as others have found, and because we had no luck when we DID try to change time/experience, we felt like we *had* to keep the FP+ we made 2 months prior or be stuck in longer lines for those attractions. Keeping the FP+ was the lesser of two evils, but it caused us to do more criss crossing than we did with legacy. It was just much easier to decide *in the parks* - hey, we want to head to this land. let's get a FP for x and then see rides a,b,c while we wait than to plan how we toured teh parks around what our FP+ that were made 2 months prior.

We have never done the touring plan/ride max itinerary type plan, because we didn't *want* to be so locked into things, and feel like FP+ requires more of that type of planning than we enjoy.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Well a lot of people did, especially the uber-users, who this thread was focused on. Maybe 2010 didn't go back far enough, but you couldn't always check return times on your phone. Just because you didn't have FP- days like I described, it doesn't mean lots of other people didn't. Doesn't mean I didn't.

I didn't say you didn't have that experience, or that no one else did. You were asking Shaden for a *personal* experience, and that's all I gave.

I understand some find the current system easier and more flexible, and I've said that all along.

ETA: As for not being an "uber user" - over the course of the discussions over the last 2 years, people have seemed to think that if you got 6-8 FPs (using MK as an example), then you were an "uber user" - we did that. . I certainly don't contend that we maximized legacy as much as it could be maximized, we didn't, but from all the discussions here of getting that many being an "uber user" I thought my experience was valid.

ETA2:You are right that checking on phones wasn't always possible. We couldn't check on phones on our 2007 trip, nor on our honeymoon, yet we toured the same way and had similar success with it then. For *us* that was never really an issue to begin with. Being able to check on your phone was an added bonus, but it didn't negatively affect us before that either

 

[MrInfinity]

Will the planet live an extra day due to fewer FP chits?

What amount of electricity must be generated to charge the batteries
of thousands of smart phones now tuned to FP+?

Very good point robo!

Why is it a very good point? That because it only wastes a little, it's ok? I suppose you could say why stop using aerosols, since how much electricity must be generated to make gels instead? Because aerosols are bad for the environment. Why drive a computer to a recycling center when it costs gas to do so? I sure hope that the world does not approach conservation in ways that you indicate are good points!

Batteries can be recycled. My company has moved on from printing massive reports. It wastes paper. Paper costs money. It's cheaper and conserves to view a report online, even tho operating my computer screen costs electricity. And Disney World is bringing FP to ones phone because people have phones. People are not buying phones because Disney is making them. However by moving to electronic and using the phones people have, it conserves paper, ink, etc... which is good for the environment, and is cheaper to operate.

 

[jtowntoflorida]

This is an interesting point. So under FP-, your typical Epcot day would be...

Get there, pull a FP- ticket (say, you get 11am return window), ride by standby at 9 (done by 9:30), ride by standby again at 9:30 (done by 10:20), then kill a little time, then come back at 11, ride by FP at 11, then go see what other fast passes are available (possibly test track) and pull one of those, and get a return window for maybe 3pm, and ride that via FP-, is that pretty accurate? Feel free to assume whatever return windows you would have typically gotten, not the ones I picked at random.

What if this could be done just the same, but electronically... would you like it then? Like if say instead of pulling a ticket, you did it by your bands, but could get just as many as you used to. If that was the case, would you prefer FP+ for the purely conservation aspect of not wasting paper?

Answering purely for myself...yes...FP+ wouldn't be an issue for me if I didn't have to change my old touring strategy, which is essentially how you described it above. Our trips prior to FP+ were all at average crowd times (October...with the exception of our SWW trip in 2013) and the legacy FP return windows were not typically for hours and hours in the future, like some people describe, and other than TSM, Soarin', and possibly Test Track (which I've never ridden so didn't pay attention to) legacy FPs weren't all distributed until afternoon. For TSM, it was typically early(ish) afternoon--by 2:00 or so, but for Soarin' it was later in the afternoon.

I have pictures to prove it (though not with me at the moment) but we could pull a legacy FP for TSM right at park opening with a return time of 9:40-10:40. So we'd pull the FP, ride SB, go do something else until 9:40, pull another FP (typically by 9:40 return times would be early afternoon...1:00 or so), ride with our first FP, then we'd wait until our FP window opened at 11:40 (two hours after the last pull) and pull one more FP, which typically was for early evening. Anyone using this strategy could ride TSM three times in the morning (SB, FP #1, FP#2), once after lunch (FP #3), and then once in the evening (FP#4). I used the strategy myself, but also had three friends and a family member use it all successfully at varying times during the year.

And no, this strategy likely would not have worked if more people had been using legacy FP. But they weren't, so it did work in my favor.

For me, because I can now do less of what I want to do at Disney (which is ride rides) than I could in the past, I feel a decreased value in my Disney vacation. I understand it works well for some people, particularly for those people who want to come to the park in the evening and are happy with their 3 FP+ selections. I understand that FP+ is a huge change for the positive for such people. But since that's not a style I utilize, and because I could do more in the past, I'm not a FP+ fan. I understand it's not going away--in fact, the complaints above (that some guests feel regimented) is exactly what Disney was going for with this--they WANT people locked into their parks. And if they can pull enough people in with "just" three rides a day, then they're not going to change that. Frankly, I'm not sure Disney cares if people only come to the park for 3 hours to use their three FP+s and then leave, because there are always more guests waiting there for the opportunity to use their three FP+ selection. Higher turnover means more ticket sales and higher attendance at the parks. What would be interesting to see is what guests do when they leave the park. Are they going to Universal? Dining offsite? Going someplace else to play and spend money? Or are they really just sticking around Disney property, spending money outside the parks? Because if it's the former, I'm not sure that's what Disney was really going for with this system, but I guess we'll see.

 

[FlipHipster]

Never mind. I was hoping to, maybe, move somewhere beyond subjective personal judgements and evaluate things at a broader level......but I fear that's futile.

Is this some kind of personal reflection therapy you are working on?