Alligator dragged 2 year old into 7 seas lagoon

[CPanther95]

Since they are connected, I think we can consider Seven Seas Lagoon not man made by proxy.

True, but is it common knowledge that the Disney lagoons are actually connected to natural waterways or bodies of water? I wasn't aware of that until this incident.

 

[bcla]

Seven Seas Lagoon was man made but the connecting Bay Lake, I believe, was not man made. Since they are connected, I think we can consider Seven Seas Lagoon not man made by proxy.

The gist was that the area is mostly in its natural state. The lagoon obviously is not. It's a controlled environment.

That doesn't mean that nature can't find a way to fit in. Nature adapts. When I visited Florida, man made canals had lots of alligators.

 

[okeydokey]

Vilifying the parents does not help. Saying what they should have done or should have known does not help. When accidents happen, we should rally around those suffering and offer support, not condemnation. Then we should do what we can to try to prevent these things from happening again. We cannot prevent all accidents, but let's move forward and see what changes can be made to lessen the chance of an accident like this from occurring again.

 

[DawnM]

From what I've read, they were in about 1 foot deep of water when the alligator came up. For a toddler, that would be about half of his body in the water.

I read he was in ankle deep water, which would be 6 inches or so.

 

[Magpie]

True, but is it common knowledge that the Disney lagoons are actually connected to natural waterways or bodies of water? I wasn't aware of that until this incident.

I was, but only because I've done some of the backstage tours and have been told that's how they move heavy equipment around (I've seen some of the barges, too). So, I think it's probably not "common knowledge".

Another interesting tidbit - you know that bridge you go under when you're approaching the Magic Kingdom by bus? It's a water bridge. It's an elevated canal, literally right over your head, with boats crossing it and everything, connecting Bay Lake to the Seven Seas Lagoon. There's another two water bridges near Epcot, making a total of three. There's only five water bridges in the world. Disney World has three and the other two are in France.

 

[mnrose]

From what I've read, they were in about 1 foot deep of water when the alligator came up. For a toddler, that would be about half of his body in the water.

Not to parse too fine a point, but the average 2 year old is 3 feet tall, not 2. Big difference. Thigh high, perhaps, if (indeed) the water was 1 foot deep. There are varying reports...some say 6 inches, which wouldn't even be to his knees. And, WTH does it matter if it was 1/2 his body or a 1/3? It doesn't.

 

[JimMIA]

Not meaning to be flip or to trivialize the death, but there has been some talk about alligators as protected species in this thread. There is a law in California that will phase out the legality of the sale of any dead alligator or crocodile part. I think it's supposed to target skins, but it's pretty clear that it includes meat, which I have consumed in California. The phase out was originally going to go into effect in 2015, but there was some lobbying by sellers of finished bags/belts along with Louisiana alligator farmers/hunters who sell the skins and meat, and now it's starting in 2020.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-alligator-legislation-20140411-story.html

I suppose the rationale is that it's difficult to tell the difference between the skins of the non-endangered American alligator and the very much endangered Chinese alligator.

Alligators are protected by both Florida and federal law because of their similarity to the American Crocodile. The southern tip of Florida, from about Ft. Myers on the Gulf Coast to Coral Gables just south of Miami, is the northern limit of the American Crocodile's range. The greatest concentration of American Crocodiles is in the cooling canals of the Turkey Point nuclear power plant south of Miami, but they are routinely seen (every day) in some places in Everglades National Park. In the marina area of Flamingo in Everglades NP, alligators and crocodiles are often seen swimming alongside each other, but they do not breed with each other. Crocodiles have been found on Sanibel Island in the Ft. Myers area and several times on the campus of the University of Miami in Coral Gables.

Alligators are not just protected from killing, it is also illegal to feed them, harass them, or basically disturb them in any way. Theoretically, if you approach an alligator and they go into the water in response, you could be charged. That's not likely to happen, but it could.

Very limited "harvesting" is permitted, by lottery-driven permit only, during a very short period most years. The number of permits is limited, and in the last few years not all of the permits have been taken -- probably because it's not profitable due to competition with commercial operations.

Florida has a number of licensed alligator farms where alligators are raised for their meat and hides, but the taking of wild alligators is a crime except by permit during the annual "harvests.," Enforcement is aggressive by both state and federal authorities.

 

[L&Lfan]

I wasn't suggesting I didn't have knowledge of Florida,

People have been swimming and participating in water sports on Bay Lake for years (they even do lifeguard training IN the lake). Again, former CM here. I know there are gators in FL. I saw them around from time to time.

Having worked in the area ringing the Yacht / Beach Club I still interpreted those signs on the Disney beaches to be about water quality - especially with all the fuel that is let in daily. For me, gators are typically sighted in the river at MK, golf courses, marshy areas near roadways,etc. Since Disney lets people in the Lake, it would not occur to me that wading in ankle-deep would be so dangerous.

Wading is wading. Swimming is swimming.

Either way - I can't even come up with words to express the horror and sadness I feel for the parents

merely recognizing how it might be possible for visitors to come from places where they don't have that knowledge and even extensive research for the visit might not lead them to it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

From what I read, they do believe that one of the 5 gators they pulled an euthanized is the one that snatched the child.

I should've worded my post differently. They do not have confirmation, whether or not, one of the five is THE alligator. Hopefully, it is one of those already euthanized.

I'm hearing more stories about gator encounters in Seven Seas Lagoon. The GR had complained to Disney management numerous times.

 

[JimMIA]

True, but is it common knowledge that the Disney lagoons are actually connected to natural waterways or bodies of water? I wasn't aware of that until this incident.

I don't know how widely known it is, but all of the bodies of water within WDW are part of the KOE (Kissimmee, Okeechobee, Everglades) watershed, and are regulated by the South Florida Water Management District -- a state agency. That's one reason WDW has so much difficulty getting development permits; the entire area is protected wetlands.

Also, because of the geology of Florida, much of the waterway system is actually subterranean, so bodies that may not look to us like they're connected actually are connected beneath the surface. That is particularly true of the area of Central Florida around and north of Orlando.

 

[bcla]

Alligators are protected by both Florida and federal law because of their similarity to the American Crocodile. The southern tip of Florida, from about Ft. Myers on the Gulf Coast to Coral Gables just south of Miami, is the northern limit of the American Crocodile's range. The greatest concentration of American Crocodiles is in the cooling canals of the Turkey Point nuclear power plant south of Miami, but they are routinely seen (every day) in some places in Everglades National Park. In the marina area of Flamingo in Everglades NP, alligators and crocodiles are often seen swimming alongside each other, but they do not breed with each other. Crocodiles have been found on Sanibel Island in the Ft. Myers area and several times on the campus of the University of Miami in Coral Gables.

Alligators are not just protected from killing, it is also illegal to feed them, harass them, or basically disturb them in any way. Theoretically, if you approach an alligator and they go into the water in response, you could be charged. That's not likely to happen, but it could.

Very limited "harvesting" is permitted, by lottery-driven permit only, during a very short period most years. The number of permits is limited, and in the last few years not all of the permits have been taken -- probably because it's not profitable due to competition with commercial operations.

Florida has a number of licensed alligator farms where alligators are raised for their meat and hides, but the taking of wild alligators is a crime except by permit during the annual "harvests.," Enforcement is aggressive by both state and federal authorities.

Whether it's illegal to harass alligators is in dispute. Certainly feeding them is illegal.

https://crimcourts.wordpress.com/20...-lying-to-us-about-alligator-harassment-laws/

 

[TLSnell1981]

Not to parse too fine a point, but the average 2 year old is 3 feet tall, not 2. Big difference. Thigh high, perhaps, if (indeed) the water was 1 foot deep. There are varying reports...some say 6 inches, which wouldn't even be to his knees. And, WTH does it matter if it was 1/2 his body or a 1/3? It doesn't.

I know information is conflicting, but I read he was about a foot offshore in just a few inches of water. Not that it makes much difference. The gator could've snatched him a few feet from the shoreline. I've also read accounts that his mother was holding his hand when this happened. My heart breaks for this poor baby and his family.

 

[Iowamomof4]

So sad for the family. Heartbreaking and tragic. I would hope that Disney would fly the family home on one of their corporate jets and that any expenses incurred because of this horrific incident would be covered by them. I am assuming that even the highest up execs there are as devastated by this as all of us.

I've been hoping they would fly them home on a private jet as well. I can't imagine the pain of watching other families returning from their Disney vacations on the same flight. I know they'll have to face those types of things eventually, but that can wait. I trust Disney is doing quite a bit for them right now, at least I hope that is the case.

 

[JimMIA]

Whether it's illegal to harass alligators is in dispute. Certainly feeding them is illegal.

https://crimcourts.wordpress.com/20...-lying-to-us-about-alligator-harassment-laws/

Yeah...disputed by a criminal defense lawyer's blog!

 

[L&Lfan]

I heard speculation on CNN that the family will get a massive payoff from Disney to avoid a trial.

 

[CPanther95]

Yeah...disputed by a criminal defense lawyer's blog!

Just looking at the law as it is written, it seems there is nothing in the law about interacting with them - or "harassing" them. Unless there's a different law.

Personally, I don't need a law telling me not to harass an alligator. Kinda strikes me as the equivalent of a warning label on a hammer not to strike your head.

 

[DizBelle]

Vilifying the parents does not help. Saying what they should have done or should have known does not help. When accidents happen, we should rally around those suffering and offer support, not condemnation. Then we should do what we can to try to prevent these things from happening again. We cannot prevent all accidents, but let's move forward and see what changes can be made to lessen the chance of an accident like this from occurring again.

Part of figuring out how to keep it from happening again is to analyze all involved parties and what they did and didn't do and see what can be done differently in the future.

If another parent learns to not allow their child in the water preventing an attack, isn't that worth it?

Or are you suggesting that parents should still allow their children in the water and changes should be made elsewhere?

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

I heard speculation on CNN that the family will get a massive payoff from Disney to avoid a trial.

That will more than likely be their best and most cost effective way to resolve this.

 

[sam_gordon]

I heard speculation on CNN that the family will get a massive payoff from Disney to avoid a trial.

I hope they don't sue Disney.

I can see Disney comping their rooms, meals, tickets, and transportation back home. NOTE: I don't think Disney HAS to do that, but I think it would be the "right" thing to do.

 

[bcla]

Just looking at the law as it is written, it seems there is nothing in the law about interacting with them - or "harassing" them. Unless there's a different law.

Personally, I don't need a law telling me not to harass an alligator. Kinda strikes me as the equivalent of a warning label on a hammer not to strike your head.

I found the regs. Says that feeding almost any wildlife is illegal. There is something about injuring an alligator, but that's kind of vague. Yeah it's a bad idea, especially if they get used to being really close to people.

http://m.myfwc.com/media/1531908/alligator-rules-booklet.pdf