Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

Darn, I used to love to watch the parades (or just relax and people watch) from the Main St. train station. Other place I used to love years ago was the area outside the Plaza, along what used to be the water by the rose garden.......also long gone now. :( Not arguing "fair or unfair", just very sad and disappointed. :(
 
Last edited:
I haven't finished reading all 19 pages, but to me, it can't be said any better than this. I agree that not everyone should get a trophy. But that misses the point. At WDW, it was never the case that everyone got a trophy. But it used to be that the trophies were awarded for expertise and vigilance. If you had been to the MK ten times before and your experience led you to find the perfect place to watch a parade or fireworks show, then your expertise was rewarded with a great view. You got the trophy and others did not. Or if a particular spot to watch a parade or fireworks show was well-known, then the trophy would go to the most vigilant people who were willing to give up three hours of their day to stake out that spot. The "front and center" view from the train station was open to anyone who wanted to sit there for two+ hours. Vigilance, persistence and patience was rewarded. Those folks got the trophies. Now, the trophies go to anyone who wants to show up at the last minute, but who has paid $$$ for the great viewing area. How long will it be before Rope Drop is a hard ticket event? The people who got to the turnstile an hour before the park opened and who used to get the "first in line at Space Mountain" trophy no longer will. That trophy will go to the person who shows up 10 minutes before the park opens and pays a fee. The doling out of trophies has not changed. What has changed is to whom they are awarded. This is not about "everybody getting a trophy." Quite the contrary. This is about meting out a finite number of trophies, just as it has always been. Only, the criteria as to who gets one has changed.
How is that any less fair though?
Before, people who spent hours online in forums were rewarded, and now, those who have the $$ and want to throw it at this stuff can be rewarded?
It's still applying to certain subsets of people.
Old mate with the $$ may have a job that they work 12 hour days and wants to spend the little other time they have left in the day with their family, and not online. They might argue that those who can spend hours pouring over the Internet have an unfair advantage.

It's all relative.
 
How is that any less fair though?
It's absolutely fair if one values money over all other qualities. But if one values persistence and/or experience over money, then a whole different outcome prevails. It's not really a matter of fair or not fair. (Note that in my post, I never mentioned that word.) It is purely a discussion of which values and character traits used to prevail in an amusement park, and which ones will rule the roost going forward. By way of example, suppose at work, employees with seniority and a demonstrated skill set typically got promoted. Now, imagine if promotions were given to those who paid the boss the greatest sum of money even if they had only been on the job for a month, or had average performance ratings. Would that be "fair"? Sure. In a world where payment of money is the ultimate determiner of elevation. Both methods of promoting people are fair. They are simply different. But one of the two is the one we are most familiar with, and most comfortable with.

Old mate with the $$ may have a job that they work 12 hour days and wants to spend the little other time they have left in the day with their family, and not online.
Old mate might also run a Ponzi scheme, or be a drug dealer, or may have just won the lottery. As soon as you allow money to be the determining factor, and then start to weigh why each person has their money, things get ugly. What isn't ugly is allowing the person who arrived first to get first pick. It works so seamlessly in most instances. Why not at an amusement park?
 
Last edited:
Well, even reading that it isn't 100% clear what this is for but the speculation is they moved the VIP area from the bridge to that spot - so moving something, not something new for

I fully agree this could be a bad trend - but also think it is dangerous (and unhealthy) to stress and complain about things that haven't full happened yet
Do you really think that the area that was formerly used for Fireworks FPs will become a "free" area in the future? Up until April, anyone could book that preferred area. What do you think is going to happen to it?
Did it make any sense to take parking places away from the people who arrived at the parks the earliest and turn them into "Preferred Parking" for a fee?
Have you noticed that several of the places where you used to watch Illuminations for free are now roped off and used as VIP (paid for) viewing?
It's not really a matter of waiting for this to take place. It is happening. We are simply frogs in the hot water slowing cooking without really noticing.
 


Do you really think that the area that was formerly used for Fireworks FPs will become a "free" area in the future? Up until April, anyone could book that preferred area. What do you think is going to happen to it?
Did it make any sense to take parking places away from the people who arrived at the parks the earliest and turn them into "Preferred Parking" for a fee?
Have you noticed that several of the places where you used to watch Illuminations for free are now roped off and used as VIP (paid for) viewing?
It's not really a matter of waiting for this to take place. It is happening. We are simply frogs in the hot water slowing cooking without really noticing.

but again, they haven't officially announced anything and they already had a VIP area, so if that is what it is, then it's not something new

There are still tons of places to get good views of the parade or fireworks if you want (though it does suck that they no longer have the FP option for those that appreciated using it)

And the premium parking thing is annoying too ... I think there are tons of things to criticize Disney for, and I have for the various cuts of CMs, the entertainment cut in EPCOT, etc. ... just think in the grand scheme of things, adding additional things that cost extra isn't that big of a thing to get worked up about, but maybe it is a big thing for you
 
Did it make any sense to take parking places away from the people who arrived at the parks the earliest and turn them into "Preferred Parking" for a fee?
Did it make sense? Sure. Do I like it? Not a bit. We are one of those families that regularly got to the parks early and parked in those close rows. We were then able to bypass the trams and walk to the front gate. At the end of the day, we strolled right past the hordes of people waiting to board trams and went straight to our car. Will we still be able to do that? Probably not. We're certainly not going to fork over $15 extra per day to get that ability back. So now we'll either be joining those hordes or taking a much longer walk, neither of which are options we would otherwise have picked.

But I get why Disney wanted to monetize something like that. I can't believe valet parking has never come to the parks. Would you pay to pull right up to the front, get out, and have someone park your car for you? I bet lots of people would do that even more than the preferred parking option they are now offering.
 


@JimmyV In Disney's eyes the guys slinging rock and paying for all of their add-ons are way more important than the hardworking family that scrapes together enough for their once in a lifetime visit, that research the heck out it, and get there early. But they'll never show you that in their commercials where they promote the happy family skipping down Main St. (with no crowd)
 
For years Disney has had VIP tours that got you front of the line access and a guide... you just had to pay.

For years Disney has taken ADRs before park opening that got you great photos and pretty much promised you could be first in line... you just had to pay for it.

For years Disney would let you rent out a section of a park, or even the entire park... you just had to pay a lot for it.

As Pete says, they will keep doing this until people stop paying for it. I haven't reached that point... yet
 
Yep, makes perfect sense to me.
Why? Because money is more valuable than time? Then yes, it makes sense. But if time is more valuable than money, then no, it doesn't make sense. Think about all the circumstances where first-come-first-served is the norm compared to circumstances where people can pay to gain an advantage. To be sure, both systems are employed. So it should come as no surprise that people are supporting both.
 
For years Disney has had VIP tours that got you front of the line access and a guide... you just had to pay.

For years Disney has taken ADRs before park opening that got you great photos and pretty much promised you could be first in line... you just had to pay for it.

For years Disney would let you rent out a section of a park, or even the entire park... you just had to pay a lot for it.

All true. But I think the real issue is that none of the things you listed above entailed stripping access from other people. The VIP experiences didn't take anything away from anyone. But yesterday's guest who arrived early to get front row parking and who staked out a spot on the train station platform in time for the parade is now roped off from what they used to be able to do. Their experience has been altered in a way that didn't happen with the examples you listed.
 
VIP parking is not new.

For many years, AAA members who booked a WDW package were allowed to park in AAA Diamond Parking.

The premium spots have had a cost involved for a very long time.
 
VIP parking is not new.

For many years, AAA members who booked a WDW package were allowed to park in AAA Diamond Parking.

The premium spots have had a cost involved for a very long time.
Kevin, is the new preferred parking spaces that used to be open to all or is it spaces that were already reserved for VIP stuff like AAA?
 
Why? Because money is more valuable than time? Then yes, it makes sense. But if time is more valuable than money, then no, it doesn't make sense. Think about all the circumstances where first-come-first-served is the norm compared to circumstances where people can pay to gain an advantage. To be sure, both systems are employed. So it should come as no surprise that people are supporting both.
It makes sense because Disney is a company, they're out to make money.
You're looking at a business decision from an emotional guest perspective
 
But if one values persistence and/or experience over money
Time is money, and at WDW the exchange rate is typically favorable.

Park experience can also be purchased: Touring Plans, Birnbaum's, Kenny the Pirate, Unofficial Guide to WDW, EasyWDW Guide, etc. Sure you have to read them, but they've done the hard work for you. These guides are constantly updated so they are line with the current state of the parks. Touring guides and park strategies work to take advantage of the park as it exists at the time.

Some travelers have adopted those strategies as part of the park design that isn't subject to change. There are so many people that visit, every parade spot, character, ride, show, bench, food stall, and bathroom has a fan club. Disney just needs to aim for a net (total net, not Disboards net) positive.
 
VIP parking is not new.

For many years, AAA members who booked a WDW package were allowed to park in AAA Diamond Parking.

The premium spots have had a cost involved for a very long time.

This isn't exactly an "apples to apples" comparison. First, the AAA spots did not come at a cost. They were free to people who booked their vacations through AAA, and in so doing, the customer did not incur any additional fee paid to the travel agent or to Disney. Second, the AAA lot was not the same lot as what is now being sold as Preferred Parking. At least not at the MK. The AAA spots were off to the side and not particularly advantageous. They weren't right up front. I think they were at DHS and AK. But not at the MK.
 
It makes sense because Disney is a company, they're out to make money.
You're looking at a business decision from an emotional guest perspective
I'm not necessarily looking at it from any perspective or taking any side. The title of this thread is "Agree to Disagree", and here is where that becomes true. For Disney, this is a business and it will always value money. For guests, they are on vacation and will always factor in time, efficiency and experience. There are going to be times when those values intersect, and there will be times when they don't. And when they don't, you end up at the place where this thread is titled.
 
This isn't exactly an "apples to apples" comparison. First, the AAA spots did not come at a cost. They were free to people who booked their vacations through AAA, and in so doing, the customer did not incur any additional fee paid to the travel agent or to Disney. Second, the AAA lot was not the same lot as what is now being sold as Preferred Parking. At least not at the MK. The AAA spots were off to the side and not particularly advantageous. They weren't right up front. I think they were at DHS and AK. But not at the MK.

They had to pay to be members of AAA.

Your idea of advantages and someone else's idea of advantages could be quite different.

I think getting an end spot in the regular parking lot is far more advantageous the parking in the front row.

By the way....we agree pretty much and you are restating what I have said in the last 19 pages.

It comes down to time or money and thats the way of the world.
 
I think this is your best argument. Recently I visited Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri. I stayed in one of the nicer cabins they had at about $325 a night. There were 'free things' to do really nothing special, but every time I went to do an activity beyond putt putt golf it cost me another $50 or $100. I would have gladly paid $500 a night if they'd include those activities rather than nickel and diming me. Do I have the money to do all of the activities, yes. But I don't like the feeling I have that I have to take my wallet out every time I want to experience something.

There are a million facets to this argument. Another poster noted that you get benefits for staying on property etc with Extra Magic or early access to FP, but that seems more reasonable as you are GUEST of the Resort vs. a guest of the PARK. That doesn't strike me as 'exclusive' but rather more of an inclusive package for staying at Walt Disney World rather, a perk.

Can you argue that paying $150 for park access is a 'perk'? I don't think so.

A few years ago, a friend of mine said, they'd wish that Disney would create a system that would level the playing field for those who just want to come and enjoy the parks. Someone like "me" had such an advantage over others. She was talking about my level of knowledge about the parks and how things worked, what to ride, when to ride, where to stand for shows, etc caveats of the parks that made my families experience different. The thing is, I was working to create all of that. I had done the research and the leg work to make that happen and EVERYONE that came to the park could have had the exact same experience. No one was able to PAY and stand in front of me, I was orchestrating it and to many people I think (regardless of the financial resources you have) that is the difference. What I was doing, EVERYONE had access to...while my friend thinks it's more fair now, the reality is, if you don't know all the things you have to do or pay for to get access, you're worse off than before.

One other point was about paying for Dining Experiences and not having to wait to meet characters. I don't know that I see that the same way as you're paying for a meal that has 'entertainment' included. That's not paying to stand in line before me, that's paying for an additional 'experience'. If I don't want to wait to see Princesses, I show up at Rope Drop and have no line...again I make it happen:)


This made me remember how we ran our resort years ago. We put extra perks in our cost of the cabins. These were special for guests only. We included a boat with the cabin, fish cleaning service, use of all water toys, etc. These things made our guests feel special, and we had a rebooking rate of 90%! We turned our resort around after we bought it. It had a low return booking and very few bookings.
I think these extra touches that made our guests feel special and that we wanted their business was what made the difference. We were one of the most sought after resorts in our area because of this. I think that if we had charged extra for beach toys (including sunfish sailboat) or a boat, we would have lost some people
I wish Disney would return to this policy before it's too late to reclaim the once dedicated Disney guests. Everyone likes to feel special, and we have always felt this way while at Disney in the past. However, with all this new moneygrabbing, we are rethinking our Disney trip this year, which makes me sad.
 
I think I'm going to have to stick to the comments I made during the show today and reiterate that I really feel these decisions being made are more about crowd control than they are about Disney wanting more money. The Parks are packed and Guests complain. MNSSHP, MVMCP, and other Special Events are packed and Guests complain. They have to do something or it's going to continue to be an all-out uproar online and everywhere. Like most people, I don't like all of these charges for extras, but they are a smart business and they've got a great product that people want.

Also, Disney Parks donated 2 million dollars to Make-A-Wish Foundation for their #ShareYourEars campaign - double their original pledge! They don't have to do stuff like that if they're not so inclined to. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't do it if they couldn't spare the 2 million. At least they're proactively having Guests fill out surveys so they can try to improve these things.

In fact, I think I remember seeing a survey last year that asked if I'd like to see more hard-ticket events; I say 'yes' and I'm sure lots of others did too!

In the times I've been to Disneyland, the only times I've ever seen the crowds even remotely compare to WDW was the week between Christmas and New Year's so I wouldn't expect to see these kinds of nickel and diming things happening there.

Magic costs money to make - Cast Members, electricity, water, gardeners, the list goes on for miles . . .


About the donation to MAW; they get tax credit for that. I'm sure they have a lot of charitable deductions for tax purposes only, as do other giant corporations.
It's not right or wrong it just is. So it's Not just out of the goodness of their heart; it helps them too. I'm glad they do it. MAW is one of my favorite charities too. Just making a point.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!












facebook twitter
Top