Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[pontikes67]

Today's show led to a 'spirited' debate (begins at 12:43 in the video below) about Disney and putting a price tag on everything. There was definitely a difference of opinion on whether Disney is excluding many from participating fully by restricting or 'charging' for experiences that used to be a part of the 'magic' at Disney.

Resort Fees, Preferred Parking, After Hours Events, Preferred Seating etc has caused a great divide...

What are your thoughts on all these change$?

 

[pjweaver]

After the show all podcast members were issued marshmallow guns to battle it out in Pete's back yard.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I must admit I haven't been able to watch the show yet, but I do think we need to keep in mind that even when Disneyland opened, there were VIP tours and you had ticket books so those who could buy more tickets could go on more rides

Personally I don't have an issue with them creating these "special" things as you don't need to buy preferred parking to enjoy being at Disney World for example. I have a bigger issue with them lessening the quality of the park though - removing characters, supposedly telling chefs to use cheaper ingredients, etc. .... Disney is a premium/luxury brand and they are charging for that premium but not giving you as high a quality experience as they used to - that combination is troubling to me

 

[pontikes67]

After the show all podcast members were issued marshmallow guns to battle it out in Pete's back yard.

There were some 'hot sports opinions' for sure. Very entertaining. It was hard in CHAT to discuss. The comments were coming so FAST and FURIOUS.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

After the show all podcast members were issued marshmallow guns to battle it out in Pete's back yard.

An event for which you can purchased preferred viewing for only $129 - it includes all the marshmallows you want to eat off the ground!!!

 

[pjweaver]

An event for which you can purchased preferred viewing for only $129 - it includes all the marshmallows you want to eat off the ground!!!

I think Abbey got all of them already

 

[pontikes67]

I must admit I haven't been able to watch the show yet, but I do think we need to keep in mind that even when Disneyland opened, there were VIP tours and you had ticket books so those who could buy more tickets could go on more rides

Personally I don't have an issue with them creating these "special" things as you don't need to buy preferred parking to enjoy being at Disney World for example. I have a bigger issue with them lessening the quality of the park though - removing characters, supposedly telling chefs to use cheaper ingredients, etc. .... Disney is a premium/luxury brand and they are charging for that premium but not giving you as high a quality experience as they used to - that combination is troubling to me

You'll see the discussion, but I don't disagree. I think the 'great divide' in the discussion occurred when typical park experiences are inhibited by 'pay for play'. Staking out your parade spot only to be told you can't stake out that spot because it's reserved for another guest is where I think those who choose (or may not be able to afford) to pay for all the 'perks' that are now being offered.

I thought the big frustration with many in the discussion is that in the "old" days. Things like the parade spot, the front row parking, riding without lines all cost the same and it was a matter of YOU making that happen by being at rope drop or arriving early at the parking lot, camping out for your parade spot or wishes location, using Fast Pass to the best of your ability. None of that cost anything but your time and the playing field was even.

The choice to buy a 'fast pass' or a parade spot or a premier parking spot are all 'choices', but the concern of many is that what that creates is the 'normal' park experiences are perks are now being sold to the highest bidder whereas if you wanted to do a VIP tour or a Backstage Magic, any non-standard experience you could certainly pay and do that, but that is now overflowing into the 'typical' Disney experience and pushing out those who can't afford or won't pay for these experiences. I can see the validity of the argument "so long as people are willing to pay for something they have that right": I think the counter to that is, Disney is creating an 'elite' class and the majority of those who visit are not 1%ers.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

You'll see the discussion, but I don't disagree. I think the 'great divide' in the discussion occurred when typical park experiences are inhibited by 'pay for play'. Staking out your parade spot only to be told you can't stake out that spot because it's reserved for another guest is where I think those who choose (or may not be able to afford) to pay for all the 'perks' that are now being offered.

I thought the big frustration with many in the discussion is that in the "old" days. Things like the parade spot, the front row parking, riding without lines all cost the same and it was a matter of YOU making that happen by being at rope drop or arriving early at the parking lot, camping out for your parade spot or wishes location, using Fast Pass to the best of your ability. None of that cost anything but your time and the playing field was even.

The choice to buy a 'fast pass' or a parade spot or a premier parking spot are all 'choices', but the concern of many is that what that creates is the 'normal' park experiences are perks are now being sold to the highest bidder whereas if you wanted to do a VIP tour or a Backstage Magic, any non-standard experience you could certainly pay and do that, but that is now overflowing into the 'typical' Disney experience and pushing out those who can't afford or won't pay for these experiences.

I guess it is a matter of degree though, right? Like, people who could afford to stay on site already got 30 extra days to secure FP+ and that 180+10 feature for booking ADRs. Doesn't that impact the regular experience of people that can't afford to stay on site? Or that those that can afford character meals could meet 5 princesses in that time while others had to wait through multiple lines.

So I guess it is just what it that point for you as an individual that it becomes too much and your day is being interrupted too much be things that people paid extra for - for some that might have already been reached when they felt that they couldn't get those Anna and Elsa FP+ 30 days out because they were all gone and for others it might be now.

I still think it isn't the individual things but just that it feels like a lot of this is coming at once (or rumored at least) - between the resort fee and the premium parking and the $149 extra hours, etc. ... at the same time hearing of cuts left and right. If service and maintenance and upkeep was still at it's highest level and these ideas were rolled out over a 2 year period, I don't think there would be the same level of uproar

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think Abbey got all of them already

That's actually part of the $89 Abbey Unleashed party!

 

[pjweaver]

The argument for 1% vs communism will linger. The bottom line is I could afford it, but then not buy the tee shirt or mickey shaped balloon later. If you want it all you can get a VIP tour guide. Along the lines of what Kevin was saying, you can eat fillet today or salad for a week.
Disney is now offering you a choice. Like value, moderate, and deluxe resorts you can now choose how nice your park time will be based on how much you pay. What frightens me is the next step. $35 hot dogs... pay toilets... priority seating for the busses back to the resorts... FPP or MDE costing an added fee. As Pete very calmly said, if we keep paying they will keep charging.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

That's actually part of the $89 Abbey Unleashed party!

Good one, thanx for the chuckles!

 

[pjweaver]

That's actually part of the $89 Abbey Unleashed party!

I'd actually be more likely to pay for the Abbey Unleashed than to pay $150 for an extra three hours in the park

 

[slapwhitey]

Pete.....I wanted to stand up and applaud in my office when you said "not everyone gets a trophy". This has been an issue with me for a long time. I am totally on board with the perspective of John, Kevin and Pete. I have absolutely no issue with folks paying more getting more perks. I've been down this road before on these boards. Everyone still has access to the same attractions, parades and fireworks. If paying extra means you don't have to wait for 2 hours, I have no problem with that. I may or may not pay for that and it's not affecting my vacation. I'm with Kevin, the bigger issue is the $4 coke. The only option to have a coke in the park is to pay $4 which is an exorbitant amount. I loved the analogies that Kevin used, it really is a comparable argument. Paying extra for preferred parking, parade or fireworks viewing or hard ticket events does not impact how I can enjoy the parks one iota.

I will be very interested to see how this thread goes. It really is a dividing topic.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The argument for 1% vs communism will linger. The bottom line is I could afford it, but then not buy the tee shirt or mickey shaped balloon later. If you want it all you can get a VIP tour guide. Along the lines of what Kevin was saying, you can eat fillet today or salad for a week.
Disney is now offering you a choice. Like value, moderate, and deluxe resorts you can now choose how nice your park time will be based on how much you pay. What frightens me is the next step. $35 hot dogs... pay toilets... priority seating for the busses back to the resorts... FPP or MDE costing an added fee. As Pete very calmly said, if we keep paying they will keep charging.

Comparing it to going to a baseball game: If you pay more you can sit closer and have a comfy seat. If you pay the minimum you can get a seat at the top of the stadium - both get you into the park, but your experience varies based on what you pay - but you at least get to see the game

So as long as Disney doesn't do anything to prevent the visitor for "seeing the game" I think they will continue to add on these "upcharges" ... and if people keeping paying it they will keep pushing the envelope for what is acceptable

 

[sporter5353]

The point I was trying to make was I hate all the "new" add-ons. That aren't "new" they are just rehashing old experiences as something you now have to pay extra for now. If Disney holds a special event like Club Villain, Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party, etc those are additional experiences that provide something extra then what a normal day ticket provides that is completely acceptable, and good for Disney for thinking of new services to provide and make money on. What bothers me is when they take something that was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it. Recently we've seen preferred parking, but how close are we to having to pay to meet Mickey? When will a "bronze level" ticket only allow me to watch Hall of Presidents from the back row?

Can Disney charge people extra and label it as providing a service that you don't have to pay for? Sure they are a Fortune 100 company in a capitalist society. But Disney used to be the Happiest Place On Earth for anyone that could afford to walk in the front gates, now I am afraid, and this is speculation that we might see a tiered system where the rich get the full experience while the rest get a shell of the experience unless they pay for the add-ons that used to be free.

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

 

[pjweaver]

But they already have tiered experiences at WDW. Whether it's hotels or dining or fireworks packages, this is all part of the evolution.

 

[sporter5353]

@pjweaver yes, but those tiered experiences were tiered from their beginnings. You are missing the point. It isn't that certain options can't be more expensive than others. It is when they take something that was originally not a tiered option, and they make it one.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The point I was trying to make was I hate all the "new" add-ons. That aren't "new" they are just rehashing old experiences as something you now have to pay extra for now. If Disney holds a special event like Club Villain, Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party, etc those are additional experiences that provide something extra then what a normal day ticket provides that is completely acceptable, and good for Disney for thinking of new services to provide and make money on. What bothers me is when they take something that was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it. Recently we've seen preferred parking, but how close are we to having to pay to meet Mickey? When will a "bronze level" ticket only allow me to watch Hall of Presidents from the back row?

Can Disney charge people extra and label it as providing a service that you don't have to pay for? Sure they are a Fortune 100 company in a capitalist society. But Disney used to be the Happiest Place On Earth for anyone that could afford to walk in the front gates, now I am afraid, and this is speculation that we might see a tiered system where the rich get the full experience while the rest get a shell of the experience unless they pay for the add-ons that used to be free.

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

I agree Steve that it sucks when something that was included now has a charge to it (there is a brewery near me that used to have free samples but now charges a $1 per sample ... it's cheap but still annoying since it used to be free)

But what if the alternative is charging $500 a day and then everything is included - is that better or having $100/day for basic access and then ability to upgrade experiences if you want?

As far as a tiering system - they used to have that with the ride ticket books. If you could afford to buy more you got to go on more rides than people who couldn't ... I wonder how people would feel if they went back to that system

One thing I definitely agree with you on is that if they start charging just to meet Mickey that might be the last straw

 

[KingLlama]

Is it weird that I agreed with EVERYONE during today's show?

I know that's strange, but Steve would say something and I'd be like "YEAH!" Then Kevin would say something and I'd be like "YEAH!" Ditto for Techols, Pete, John, and Kathy. I even agreed with what Craig said, for crying out loud.

I guess that's the sign of a good debate. Even when you disagree with the other viewpoint, you can at least appreciate the sentiment/thinking behind it.

Good show.

 

[pontikes67]

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

I think this is your best argument. Recently I visited Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri. I stayed in one of the nicer cabins they had at about $325 a night. There were 'free things' to do really nothing special, but every time I went to do an activity beyond putt putt golf it cost me another $50 or $100. I would have gladly paid $500 a night if they'd include those activities rather than nickel and diming me. Do I have the money to do all of the activities, yes. But I don't like the feeling I have that I have to take my wallet out every time I want to experience something.

There are a million facets to this argument. Another poster noted that you get benefits for staying on property etc with Extra Magic or early access to FP, but that seems more reasonable as you are GUEST of the Resort vs. a guest of the PARK. That doesn't strike me as 'exclusive' but rather more of an inclusive package for staying at Walt Disney World rather, a perk.

Can you argue that paying $150 for park access is a 'perk'? I don't think so.

A few years ago, a friend of mine said, they'd wish that Disney would create a system that would level the playing field for those who just want to come and enjoy the parks. Someone like "me" had such an advantage over others. She was talking about my level of knowledge about the parks and how things worked, what to ride, when to ride, where to stand for shows, etc caveats of the parks that made my families experience different. The thing is, I was working to create all of that. I had done the research and the leg work to make that happen and EVERYONE that came to the park could have had the exact same experience. No one was able to PAY and stand in front of me, I was orchestrating it and to many people I think (regardless of the financial resources you have) that is the difference. What I was doing, EVERYONE had access to...while my friend thinks it's more fair now, the reality is, if you don't know all the things you have to do or pay for to get access, you're worse off than before.

One other point was about paying for Dining Experiences and not having to wait to meet characters. I don't know that I see that the same way as you're paying for a meal that has 'entertainment' included. That's not paying to stand in line before me, that's paying for an additional 'experience'. If I don't want to wait to see Princesses, I show up at Rope Drop and have no line...again I make it happen