A Dallas healthcare worker diagnosed with Ebola.

[lsyorke]

There is no scientific reason for why military members are being quarantined and civilians are not.

There are reasons, but none of them have anything to do with science.

We can talk about science and facts and CDC guidelines all day but those things don't mean anything in this case.

Why is there no hysteria over our military members' rights?

Because the military has to do what they are told..they don't get to have a choice by the very nature of being in the military...a choice that they made when the enlisted.
Hagal pretty much admitted that the policy was due to pressure from "communities" that the military would be returning to. So, it isn't about science(which the Joint Chiefs admitted), but pressure from outside sources. This policy will also be reviewed in 45 days .

 

[Vidia2]

Because the military has to do what they are told..they don't get to have a choice by the very nature of being in the military...a choice that they made when the enlisted.
Hagal pretty much admitted that the policy was due to pressure from "communities" that the military would be returning to. So, it isn't about science(which the Joint Chiefs admitted), but pressure from outside sources. This policy will also be reviewed in 45 days .

Even if they have to do what they are told, that doesn't really explain anything at all. But, I see what you're saying. They have no civil rights or constitutional rights and they made the choice to go to Ebola-infected countries when they "enlisted". Just so you know, not everyone in the military is "enlisted".

There is no more pressure to quarantine military members than there is for civilians. But, with all the talk of fear-mongering by quarantining people and promoting hysteria, it's okay for the government to promote that by using our military even if the science doesn't support it.

I feel so much better knowing that our public officials care so much about the welfare of our troops.

The 45 day thing is hardly relevant to the airmen and soldiers who have to spend even more time away from their families and be treated like prisoners now.

 

[lsyorke]

The 45 day thing is hardly relevant to the airmen and soldiers who have to spend even more time away from their families and be treated like prisoners now.

I thought you were all for a mandatory quarantine for everyone? I'm confused. Imposing rules(regardless of if they are logical or not) on the military is much easier than imposing those rules on the general public. Is it fair, nope, and no one should be held to a mandatory strict quarantine if they have tested negative and show no signs of being ill, like the nurse did.

Medical decisions are now being made by politicians and not the medical community. That's what happens when a disease becomes a campaign item.

 

[wilkeliza]

Even if they have to do what they are told, that doesn't really explain anything at all. But, I see what you're saying. They have no civil rights or constitutional rights and they made the choice to go to Ebola-infected countries when they "enlisted". Just so you know, not everyone in the military is "enlisted". There is no more pressure to quarantine military members than there is for civilians. But, with all the talk of fear-mongering by quarantining people and promoting hysteria, it's okay for the government to promote that by using our military even if the science doesn't support it. I feel so much better knowing that our public officials care so much about the welfare of our troops. The 45 day thing is hardly relevant to the airmen and soldiers who have to spend even more time away from their families and be treated like prisoners now.

Not sure I am aware of a draft that has happened recently so not sure of anyone who is in the military against their will. I mean I know some guys who were given the option of jail or the army but they still had a choice.

 

[olwyngdh]

I wonder why our military members are required to be quarantined. It doesn't seem very "sciency".

Maybe it's out of an abundance of caution. Maybe it's fear-mongering.

"As we order our young men and women forward to execute this important mission, we owe it to them, their families, and their communities to take these prudent measures to ensure that should a member return with Ebola, we will prevent further transmission of the virus," Dempsey wrote.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/hagel-approves-21-day-ebola-quarantine-troops-26541976?page=2

Why would a military member be more likely to return with Ebola? He/she wouldn't. Do our public officials care more for military members than civilians? No.

There is no scientific reason for why military members are being quarantined and civilians are not.

There are reasons, but none of them have anything to do with science.

We can talk about science and facts and CDC guidelines all day but those things don't mean anything in this case.

Why is there no hysteria over our military members' rights?

For one, because military members don't have the same rights as civilians. For two, it doesn't matter how stupid, unscientific, irrational, or even counterproductive an order is, it is an order. For three, if you have a problem with number two, see number one.

 

[Vidia2]

Not sure I am aware of a draft that has happened recently so not sure of anyone who is in the military against their will. I mean I know some guys who were given the option of jail or the army but they still had a choice.

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that because they voluntarily went into the military that mandatory quarantine is appropriate for them but not for civilians?

It sounds like some people are saying that military members have no rights and it doesn't matter that there's no science behind the quarantines, it's okay to lock the military away for 21 days just because they have to follow orders.

Science please?

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that because they voluntarily went into the military that mandatory quarantine is appropriate for them but not for civilians? It sounds like some people are saying that military members have no rights and it doesn't matter that there's no science behind the quarantines, it's okay to lock the military away for 21 days just because they have to follow orders. Science please?

That is not what I am saying at all. By your statement it sounded like you were saying not all of them are voluntary as not everyone "enlisted" you either enlist or get drafted.

I would imagine the US military has their reasons. I do not believe I am qualified enough to judge their decisions.

 

[olwyngdh]

Even if they have to do what they are told, that doesn't really explain anything at all. But, I see what you're saying. They have no civil rights or constitutional rights and they made the choice to go to Ebola-infected countries when they "enlisted". Just so you know, not everyone in the military is "enlisted".

There is no more pressure to quarantine military members than there is for civilians. But, with all the talk of fear-mongering by quarantining people and promoting hysteria, it's okay for the government to promote that by using our military even if the science doesn't support it.

I feel so much better knowing that our public officials care so much about the welfare of our troops.

The 45 day thing is hardly relevant to the airmen and soldiers who have to spend even more time away from their families and be treated like prisoners now.

No, not all personel are enlisted, but all volunteered, and all signed on the bottom line and chose to give up their rights to protect yours. And, to be perfectly honest, government officials have never cared much about the welfare of the troops. That is documentable at least as far back as the Pelopanisian War.

 

[olwyngdh]

I'm not sure what your argument is. Are you saying that because they voluntarily went into the military that mandatory quarantine is appropriate for them but not for civilians?

It sounds like some people are saying that military members have no rights and it doesn't matter that there's no science behind the quarantines, it's okay to lock the military away for 21 days just because they have to follow orders.

Science please?

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Their ri
ghts are covered under the UCMJ, and they are not the same as a civilians rights.

 

[Vidia2]

I thought you were all for a mandatory quarantine for everyone? I'm confused. Imposing rules(regardless of if they are logical or not) on the military is much easier than imposing those rules on the general public. Is it fair, nope, and no one should be held to a mandatory strict quarantine if they have tested negative and show no signs of being ill, like the nurse did.

Medical decisions are now being made by politicians and not the medical community. That's what happens when a disease becomes a campaign item.

Yes, you're right. Lest we forget that it's not about science or civil rights or any other logical reason.

Some people have gone quiet. Not surprisingly.

If the same people who ordered the Kaci Hickox quarantine had ordered the military quarantines, there would be non-stop complains about "small-minded people" and "fear-mongering" and why do people "hate the military so much." And other soul-crushing behavior. LOL

And yet, crickets. Our the "freedom-fighters" politically minded? Or does our military not deserve freedom as well?

Regarding your comment that I'm for mandatory quarantine for everyone. That's not true. I do think it should be consistent and that the decisions should be made by medical professionals, not politicians, which includes the CDC. The CDC made themselves a joke by politicizing this issue.

The CDC keeps changing their website, still. Friedan is a political tool.

The truth regarding the military is that the logical choice, according to everyone involved in the decision to quarantine them is to quarantine them. The situation in Italy and other overseas posts may be influenced by host countries. The situation here in the US has to do with them actually thinking that it's the right course of action. To keep them and their families safe, just like they've said.

The reason that they are not quarantining civilians in the same way is not because they believe that there's no risk. It's because they are concerned that there will be fewer who will be willing to go to the trouble to volunteer. So the truth is that the public officials care less about civilians and their family members.

So, if you believe that they aren't quarantining civilians because they don't want to discourage them from volunteering, which has been printed in many media sites, then you have to assume that there's some risk, which they apply to rules regarding the military, who (let's be honest) they think of as their slaves. I guess in order to keep giving them orders, they have to keep them alive.

No one really cares about the well-being or rights of Kaci Hickox unless they equally care about a military nurse who's been sent to Ebolaland, or a soldier who's been sent to build an Ebola treatment center or organize supples. Also, Kaci Hickox is much less of a hero.

 

[Vidia2]

That is not what I am saying at all. By your statement it sounded like you were saying not all of them are voluntary as not everyone "enlisted" you either enlist or get drafted.

I would imagine the US military has their reasons. I do not believe I am qualified enough to judge their decisions.

Sorry, I meant that some members are officers, some are enlisted. I suppose everyone joins. Enlisted does not imply "slave" as some people believe. I'm not directing this at you.

 

[olwyngdh]

Sorry, I meant that some members are officers, some are enlisted. I suppose everyone joins. Enlisted does not imply "slave" as some people believe. I'm not directing this at you.

I have to ask, are you military or military spouse?

 

[Vidia2]

I have to ask, are you military or military spouse?

I've been both. Do you want to know about my healthcare experience as well?

I have a feeling that any information I give about myself will be used against me by someone.

 

[olwyngdh]

I've been both. Do you want to know about my healthcare experience as well?

I have a feeling that any information I give about myself will be used against me by someone.

Then you should know from experience that orders don't always make sense, are sometimes politically motivated, and there are very specific things that have to happen before you have a right (and responsibility) to question those orders. You should also know that military personnel do not have the same rights as civilians. You keep talking like you think they do, that is why I asked. Most people actively involved in the military know better, learn better, or don't last very long.

 

[okeydokey]

I have no problem with the military folks doing health checks twice a day but not being subject to quarantine. I don't believe they are actively working with Ebola patients even.

 

[olwyngdh]

I have no problem with the military folks doing health checks twice a day but not being subject to quarantine. I don't believe they are actively working with Ebola patients even.

I have no problem with it either, but I know I have no say or influence on whatever the orders are--I only have the illusion of control even when it comes to PCSing. Here are 5 choices, rank them from favorite to least favorite. Ok, now wasn't that fun, we are sending you to this place that wasn't on the list. 3 of our moves have happened that way, and one move had orders changed from one place to another the day we were moving into housing.

 

[wilkeliza]

Sorry, I meant that some members are officers, some are enlisted. I suppose everyone joins. Enlisted does not imply "slave" as some people believe. I'm not directing this at you.

Enlisted definitely doesn't mean slave. I ended up not being able to enlist even though I gave 3 years of my life to JROTC and 1 to LOTC (would have given 4 to JROTC but when I found out I couldn't enlist I was depressed and heart broken and lost my ability to be an officer in my schools regimen so I quit) but my younger brother is military as was my older brother. I have nothing but respect for our military. I know my little brother is cool for the 21 day quarantine because he has said if by some awful string of fate he had it he would hate to have to worry that he passed it to his nieces and nephews or the rest of the family. He thinks 21 days is worth the piece of mind.

 

[Bluestars]

Enlisted definitely doesn't mean slave. I ended up not being able to enlist even though I gave 3 years of my life to JROTC and 1 to LOTC (would have given 4 to JROTC but when I found out I couldn't enlist I was depressed and heart broken and lost my ability to be an officer in my schools regimen so I quit) but my younger brother is military as was my older brother. I have nothing but respect for our military. I know my little brother is cool for the 21 day quarantine because he has said if by some awful string of fate he had it he would hate to have to worry that he passed it to his nieces and nephews or the rest of the family. He thinks 21 days is worth the piece of mind.

That's good to know that he is cool with the 21 days. So am I. These men and woman are not trained in infectious diseases. They might be near someone in the later stages and not be as careful as a trained person. I am glad that they are being closely watched for 21 days because that means that if by some chance they do have Ebola, they can be treated immediately and would have a much better chance of recovery.

 

[Suger Mag]

I've been both. Do you want to know about my healthcare experience as well?

I have a feeling that any information I give about myself will be used against me by someone.

LOL... your avatar pic says it all... sometimes it does not matter what the position is, you really seem to want to have an arguement about it... maybe it is just to

A mandatory quarantine is bad... A mandatory quarantine is good... you don't care about a mandatory quarantine (nature will take care of it), but will still comment about it.

No one here is out to get you. I have been following this thread since the beginning and many people who are against a mandatory quarantine for civilians (without symptoms) are NOT in favor of a mandatory quarantine for military and associated non-elisted military personnel... we just realize that there is no point in arguing about it, as military folk have a different set of rules than civilians.

Since there is no draft... everyone who is associated with the military freely made the decision to join and thus subscribe by the rules of the military. If you do not like those rules... then don't enlist. Seems pretty logical to me. Once you enlist... you and every one of your cells belongs to the military for as long as your term of service. don't like those rules? Well then don't join. I think the military's decision to mandatory quarantine is not based in current scientific understanding... but then again there is a lot about the military that I don't agree with... which is why I do not join up. But as a free civilian... I expect my rights to be upheld... not tossed out the window to satisfy the hysteria of a few individuals who choose NOT to believe the science.

 

[OceanAnnie]

LOL... your avatar pic says it all... sometimes it does not matter what the position is, you really seem to want to have an arguement about it... maybe it is just to

A mandatory quarantine is bad... A mandatory quarantine is good... you don't care about a mandatory quarantine (nature will take care of it), but will still comment about it.

No one here is out to get you. I have been following this thread since the beginning and many people who are against a mandatory quarantine for civilians (without symptoms) are NOT in favor of a mandatory quarantine for military and associated non-elisted military personnel... we just realize that there is no point in arguing about it, as military folk have a different set of rules than civilians.

Since there is no draft... everyone who is associated with the military freely made the decision to join and thus subscribe by the rules of the military. If you do not like those rules... then don't enlist. Seems pretty logical to me. Once you enlist... you and every one of your cells belongs to the military for as long as your term of service. don't like those rules? Well then don't join. I think the military's decision to mandatory quarantine is not based in current scientific understanding... but then again there is a lot about the military that I don't agree with... which is why I do not join up. But as a free civilian... I expect my rights to be upheld... not tossed out the window to satisfy the hysteria of a few individuals who choose NOT to believe the science.

I think V's main point is it isn't logical to have a nurse that was working directly with patients not in quarantine on one hand and soldiers not working directly with patients going into quarantine on the other.

You can go down the rabbit hole of military vs civilian life, but the gist is clear. It doesn't make sense.