.

[disneysteve]

I would love WDW to go back to the 'way it was' before everyone had ADR's for every meal. We used to be able to make same day reservations, or just walk up and get in any place we wanted.

That would be great but it's never going to happen. Attendance is millions/year higher then it was back then.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I will have my lamb shank while you eat a boiled hamburger.

Er, what? What I posted are actual solutions that I've used. I've many WDW trips under my belt, many with 9+ people in my party. Many w/ vegetarian + severe food allergies and picky eaters.

A. Guests can use their credits on any day. Multiple trips, we had extra DDP credits and added a TS, or swapped in a Signature meal. These are always options.

B/C. I think you misread something. For New Years Eve week 2015, last minute MK TS options included: new place, Tony's, and LTT. Also PLENTY of options just outside MK: all monorail resorts and WL (GF Café, Wave, Kona, and WCC). Er, I'm not sure what special needs you mean, but I have talked to many chefs! They are always prepared for allergies.

If you know WDW, then you know there are actually a number of non-ADR options tucked here and there, like the Kona Café sushi counter.

D. Um, I'm guessing you have not dined offsite in some time. The number of options in the Orlando area is staggering. Cvent says 5,000. I promise, price point to price point when we eat offsite, we are served much better quality.

Right in MCO, with no car, you'll find the fabulous McCoy's (up just one level in the Hyatt). Hyatt= AAA rating. McCoys has a pro sushi chef, local fish, steaks, soups, house crafted pasta, many local ingredients, etc. Even burgers! are Strauss grass fed beef on brioche, lettuce/tomato, plus in-house made red onion jam. It is $12.50! Kids' choices: traditional, organic, or 1/2 portions at 1/2 price! Entrée sides include: spinach, tri-color carrots, beets, asparagus, broccolini, and cannellini. I promise, much better than WDW options in the same price range!


E. Simply put, I disagree. Our trips have improved since we gave up DDP and now most ADR's. We have a much better time when we have dining freedom. We feel much better eating when we're hungry, vs. a time I picked days in advance.

I only wish WDW would go back to a system that makes it easier for everyone to eat the way they want.

then again, the whole point of offering ADR's and the DDP isn't to help the guest. It is to keep guests onsite and help WDW.

 

[Angel Ariel]

We feel much better eating when we're hungry, vs. a time I picked days in advance.

While I agree with most of your post, this reasoning has always confused me. When we plan ADRs (and we only do 1 adr/day generally), we plan them for when we know we will be hungry. We have a pretty good idea of when that will be because it's pretty consistent at home every day, so we use that as our guide. We haven't found that when we get hungry drastically changes when we are on vacation...do others find that to be majorly different vs when you are at home?

 

[HollywoodTowerHotel]

E. Simply put, I disagree.

This sums up the point - you disagree with not just "E," but with the idea of ADRs overall and the reasoning people have given for liking them. What it comes down to is that no matter how you explain your points (A through E or otherwise), this is a matter of opinion and people will disagree, as they are entitled to their opinions just as you are entitled to yours.

So it looks like it's time to agree to disagree.

 

[disneysteve]

We haven't found that when we get hungry drastically changes when we are on vacation...do others find that to be majorly different vs when you are at home?

Yes and no. At home, breakfast and lunch, at least on weekdays, are at a set time due to my work schedule. Breakfast is at about 6:30am. Lunch is just after noon. Dinner varies a bit based on schedule and other obligations.

At Disney, our start time for the day varies by whether or not it's a park day or a "sleep in" day. Lunch varies a bit depending on the same and whether or not we have some type of mid-morning snack. The same for dinner. If we stopped for Dole Whip at 3pm, dinner might be later than if we didn't. If we want to see the electrical parade at 7, we'll eat an early dinner around 4:30. We also tend to eat at off hours to avoid the crowds so lunch at 11 or after 1, which then impacts dinner time. Plus, we don't plan our days in advance so it is impossible to plan our meals in advance.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes and no. At home, breakfast and lunch, at least on weekdays, are at a set time due to my work schedule. Breakfast is at about 6:30am. Lunch is just after noon. Dinner varies a bit based on schedule and other obligations.

At Disney, our start time for the day varies by whether or not it's a park day or a "sleep in" day. Lunch varies a bit depending on the same and whether or not we have some type of mid-morning snack. The same for dinner. If we stopped for Dole Whip at 3pm, dinner might be later than if we didn't. If we want to see the electrical parade at 7, we'll eat an early dinner around 4:30. We also tend to eat at off hours to avoid the crowds so lunch at 11 or after 1, which then impacts dinner time. Plus, we don't plan our days in advance so it is impossible to plan our meals in advance.

When DH and I were by ourselves, we could (and did) at times do something similar, but we always had time frames for lunch and dinner. Now that we have DD, she has a schedule. We keep that schedule as best we can regardless of where we are...it's not so much that there's a set specific time, but she generally eats lunch somewhere between 12 and 1:30 or so. So when we go to Disney, if we want a TS lunch, we look for that time frame. We generally eat dinner between 5:30 and 7, so we'll look for a dinner ADR in that time frame. We could do earlier times (for ex, an 11:30 lunch or a 4:30 dinner), but we can't really push those times any later or it throws off bedtime too, and that's not good for anyone

 

[disneysteve]

Now that we have DD, she has a schedule. We keep that schedule as best we can regardless of where we are

Kudos to you for doing that!! So many parents make their kids - and themselves - miserable at Disney by ignoring the kids' normal routine. We did the same thing when DD was young, even if that meant we were back in our room by 6:30pm.

Our DD is 20 now, though, so those types of issues are long past.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

This sums up the point - you disagree with not just "E," but with the idea of ADRs overall and the reasoning people have given for liking them.

This isn't what I said at all. What I actually said is:
1. Disney guests already have a few viable alternatives to ADR's.
2. WDW without ADR's doesn't = ruined vacation
3. The ADR system could be improved.

I refuted baseless hyperbole with facts and examples. I've used hundreds of ADR's over the years. I actually said I think some traditional ADR's should remain, or did you completely ignore my earlier post?

Silly me, I did propose that the ADR system could be improved. If you disagree that the system could be improved, so be it. I've been posting on the DIS for over ten years.it is far from the first time my posts have been misread.

 

[mcd2745]

Our trips have improved since we gave up DDP and now most ADR's. We have a much better time when we have dining freedom. We feel much better eating when we're hungry, vs. a time I picked days in advance.

I only wish WDW would go back to a system that makes it easier for everyone to eat the way they want.

then again, the whole point of offering ADR's and the DDP isn't to help the guest. It is to keep guests onsite and help WDW.

I agree about the DDP. One of its primary goals from Disney's standpoint is to keep people inside the bubble and more specifically, in the parks.

I would love to see them go some kind of points-based system for the DDP where snack items are say one point, QS meals are maybe 3 points, and TS meals can carry different values (maybe anywhere from 5 for a place like The Plaza and up to 10-12 for the signatures) depending on the restaurant. Then you estimate and purchase the points you need and the price per point can go down after certain levels. And as long as you have any kind of dining plan that you sell in advance, you will need to have ADRs. They never need to go out to 180 days...but you still need to have them in some form.

As for the "eating when we're hungry, vs. a time I picked days in advance" comment...how difficult is it to plan out the day around that ADR time? If you have a dinner ADR at 5pm, it would be quite foolish to grab a turkey leg at 3:30pm and then end up complaining that you're not hungry at your ADR time. It's very simply to go about your day and ensure you're hungry for when your ADR time rolls around.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

do others find that to be majorly different vs when you are at home?

Yes, but maybe not in the way you are thinking.

Outside of WDW, meal times are often a free for all. Eating out at off times has many benefits. We avoid crowds, get great discounts, and sit at the best tables!

Funny things is, most of my extended family is the same way. The children in our extended family learn the many benefits of thinking outside the box.

Synchronized meals across my extended family simply isn't possible. Daycare begins at 6:30am, elementary isn't until 9:30am! Most the adults don't get fixed lunches or schedules. They eat when hunger and convenience align.

The advantage, if you will, is that at home, we all tend to hold off eating until we are actually hungry.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

a turkey leg at 3:30pm.

We never eat the Turkey Legs! They are the stuff of nightmares! (though I see your point)

On just our most recent visit, POTC shut down just as we were going to use our FP. A little while and a few complications later- it reopened. We took happy advantage of the near zero wait!

Earlier that day, the opposite happened. The Pooh standby was posted at 20min. About 25min later, we noticed we were still in line and it wasn't moving. There was no announcement that the ride was down. The people in line behind us were upset, because they were forced to choose between giving up their place in line and missing BOG.

Still earlier the same day, just as our shuttle boat pulled to the dock, the captain announced a fog stoppage. Guests all around us worried because their day was heavily scheduled between FP+ and ADR's.

Are you saying you've never encountered similar situations at WDW?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes, but maybe not in the way you are thinking.

Outside of WDW, meal times are often a free for all. Eating out at off times has many benefits. We avoid crowds, get great discounts, and sit at the best tables!

Funny things is, most of my extended family is the same way. The children in our extended family learn the many benefits of thinking outside the box.

Synchronized meals across my extended family simply isn't possible. Daycare begins at 6:30am, elementary isn't until 9:30am! Most the adults don't get fixed lunches or schedules. They eat when hunger and convenience align.

The advantage, if you will, is that at home, we all tend to hold off eating until we are actually hungry.

As I indicated to Steve, our times aren't fixed...we have general time frames we are looking for moreso than specific fixed times. There is flexibility in those times..especially going earlier (for ex, our F! dining package at Blue Bayou was at 4:40pm...earlier than we'd generally eat, but not a big deal as we had snacks for DD for later). There's only so far later we can push those times, though, as we generally try to avoid having DD fall asleep in the park. She doesn't stay asleep when we transfer her at the hotel, and a 10 min nap (walking from DL to hotel) can mean her being up for another 2+ hours if (really more when) she wakes up when we transfer her.

She's a very flexible kid...I don't mean it to sound like we're on a fixed schedule with her. It varies day to day. For ex, school days I wake her around 7:30. she eats lunch at school at 11:30am. Days like today, where she doesn't have school (they're off for the day), I got her up around 8:30a and she started eating lunch around 12:45pm. When we had a week's worth of snow days last week, she was sleeping in til 10am and eating breakfast at 11am, so lunch was more like 2pm. When we left for DLR, we had an 8:30am flight and had to be at the airport no later than 7am. We left the house at 5:30am to get there. We picked her up from bed, put her in the car, gave her some milk and then fed her breakfast around 7:30 once we were through security.

So flexibility and thinking outside the box are there, but we still have a pretty good idea of within what 2 -2.5 hour time frame we're going to be looking for a meal during. Does that make sense? We all get hungry within those time frames, so it's not excessively planning (for us) to choose some place to sit down for a meal on vacation. Granted, I would LOVE IT...love it SO much...if it weren't a 180 day window. The DLR 60 day window was so very much nicer. I am also not opposed to a same day system (as long as they incorporate technology and don't make you have to physically go to the restaurant).

We know we want to do 1 TS/day, though, so we do what we know we need to do for now when we're at WDW in order to eat where we want to. I would love it if it were easier, and you didn't have to plan so far out, though.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Still earlier the same day, just as our shuttle boat pulled to the dock, the captain announced a fog stoppage. Guests all around us worried because their day was heavily scheduled between FP+ and ADR's.

Are you saying you've never encountered similar situations at WDW?

The bolded is why we don't like FP+. I don't care as much about making ADRs because I know we're going to be hungry, and I have a decent time frame in which I know we will be hungry, so picking a time within 2.2-5 hrs isn't a big deal.

Planning around FP+, though, makes it a lot more difficult, as you have no idea what the crowd/line situation is going to be like. There's no way to know if the ride is going to break down earlier in the day, causing backups by the time your FP+ window rolls around (just as one particular example). The combination of the two is too much planning for us, and we did end up doing less ADRs and a lot more counter service on our last trip (adults only) because of it. With DD we'd prefer to do 1 TS/day to help serve as a little break...but I can absolutely see how it can make a day feel overly scheduled (and that's been one of my concerns about FP+ from the beginning).

 

[JimmyV]

last minute MK TS options included: new place, Tony's, and LTT. Also PLENTY of options just outside MK: all monorail resorts and WL (GF Café, Wave, Kona, and WCC)

The problem is, most of these "solutions" are compromises. It ignores the fact that most food at WDW is average at best and the low supply of good food coupled with the demand for same ensures a Rope Drop-like dash for same day reservations. How is a mad dash to the podium of the California Grill with no guarantee of success a better option than clicking a mouse in advance of your trip? With the exception of Kona, I would consider having to dine in any of the places mentioned in your parenthetical to be a vacation fail. I'm not spending my vacation dollars eating at The Grand Floridan Cafe. There is a reason why one can get in as a last minute walk-in. And many of your suggestions require the added expense of a rental car and a two and a half detour. If you are in Fantasyland and have to walk to the Magic Kingdom park gate, then take the monorail to the TTC, then take a tram to your car, then drive to one of these off site restaurants that you recommend, then wait for a table (since making reservations is a bad thing), then eat and reverse the process, just how long do you think this journey would take? Well over 2 hours. Is that an efficient use of park time?

Without ADRs Rope Drop would become even more hectic as people rush to the podiums of the better restaurants to grab the best same day reservation times, and everyone else will be left with 4:00 dinner times or no times at all at the restaurant of their choice leaving them with tables at below average restaurants. So far, none of your suggested workarounds sound like they would result in people dining at their first choice restaurants. They all sound like "solutions" that will get people in to second tier locations that lack popularity for good reason. "You can always go to Tony's" is hardly a substitute for someone who wants to go to Be Our Guest.

 

[dkrauss]

The problem is, most of these "solutions" are compromises......

Without ADRs Rope Drop would become even more hectic as people rush to the podiums of the better restaurants to grab the best same day reservation times, and everyone else will be left with 4:00 dinner times or no times at all at the restaurant of their choice leaving them with tables at below average restaurants. So far, none of your suggested workarounds sound like they would result in people dining at their first choice restaurants. They all sound like "solutions" that will get people in to second tier locations that lack popularity for good reason. "You can always go to Tony's" is hardly a substitute for someone who wants to go to Be Our Guest.

Completely agree with these statements............. I wonder if there is any true solution here that wouldn't cause the chaos as stated above (its not 1994 anymore people). Sometimes things are just the way they are..........I believe the ADR process is just that...........unless someone has a real solution? That doesn't make things worse

Doug

 

[disneysteve]

I wonder if there is any true solution here that wouldn't cause the chaos as stated above

I think the 180 day thing is an issue. They could shorten that window without fundamentally changing the system. We planned our last trip less than 8 weeks in advance. Had we wanted any popular ADRs, we wouldn't have had a chance. Our next trip is in July. We haven't even started thinking about planning it yet. I probably won't do that until at least April. But the ADR window is already open.

The other thing Disney could do is increase capacity. They haven't added new restaurants to keep up with increased attendance and demand. They added BOG. They added the tapas place in Morocco. I think that's about it unless I'm forgetting something. Of course they are adding a lot in Disney Springs but that doesn't help in the parks. I don't know if Star Wars land or Toy Story land plans include a new TS location or two but it would certainly be a good idea. Epcot could reopen Odyssey. That would take some pressure off the other locations. It used to have a character meal. That would definitely suck up guests if they did that again. Put a restaurant in the WOL pavilion. There used to be a great CS location in there but no reason why they couldn't put in a TS spot. They could still use the rest of the space for F&W stuff.

 

[mcd2745]

I think the 180 day thing is an issue. They could shorten that window without fundamentally changing the system. We planned our last trip less than 8 weeks in advance. Had we wanted any popular ADRs, we wouldn't have had a chance. Our next trip is in July. We haven't even started thinking about planning it yet. I probably won't do that until at least April. But the ADR window is already open.

The other thing Disney could do is increase capacity. They haven't added new restaurants to keep up with increased attendance and demand. They added BOG. They added the tapas place in Morocco. I think that's about it unless I'm forgetting something. Of course they are adding a lot in Disney Springs but that doesn't help in the parks. I don't know if Star Wars land or Toy Story land plans include a new TS location or two but it would certainly be a good idea. Epcot could reopen Odyssey. That would take some pressure off the other locations. It used to have a character meal. That would definitely suck up guests if they did that again. Put a restaurant in the WOL pavilion. There used to be a great CS location in there but no reason why they couldn't put in a TS spot. They could still use the rest of the space for F&W stuff.

Well, there's also Skipper's canteen now, and they are adding a new TS restaurant (some reports are that it will be a signature/2 credit restaurant) in AK. They have also expanding operating hours in a number of restaurants (such as bringing back breakfast at Garden Grill, brunch at Chef Mickey's, etc.). However, it's still not enough - particularly in MK. And as you referenced, in DHS, they better add TS dining capacity for when the new lands are done. You also bring up Disney Springs and I do think they would love to funnel everyone over there for the evenings. I bet that's one of the reasons why they seem to keep closing resort pools (a big pet peeve of mine) earlier & earlier - albeit under the guise of safety issues. You're not spending money while splashing around in the pool. But that's a whole separate thread/discussion.

 

[disneysteve]

Well, there's also Skipper's canteen now, and they are adding a new TS restaurant (some reports are that it will be a signature/2 credit restaurant) in AK. They have also expanding operating hours in a number of restaurants (such as bringing back breakfast at Garden Grill, brunch at Chef Mickey's, etc.). However, it's still not enough - particularly in MK.

Oops. Forgot about Skipper's Canteen. That counts, for sure, though it is having it's own issues. I think since it doesn't accept ADRs, it isn't on most people's radar when planning their trips. Plus the appeal of the menu is somewhat questionable. There's another thread discussing that. Expanding hours at some restaurants helps but probably only minimally. And trying to funnel people to Disney Springs isn't a useful option. People come to go to the parks, especially in the evening with fireworks and other nighttime entertainment. They don't want to leave to have dinner somewhere else.

 

[JimmyV]

I think the 180 day thing is an issue. They could shorten that window without fundamentally changing the system.

Once upon a time it was 30 days. Then it was 60. Then it was 90. Then it jumped all the way to 180. To me, 60 was the best, but I would certainly welcome 90 days. Under no circumstances should the ADR window be set further out in advance than the final posted park hours. It's very frustrating to "pick" your park 180 days in advance based on crowd calendars that are predicting a "3" or "4" only to have operational changes cause the prediction to rise to "7" or "8" and "Not Recommended" status 60 days before your visit. You make a change in plans only to find that your new targeted park has no ADRs left. A move back to a 60 day ADR window would largely eliminate this problem.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Once upon a time it was 30 days. Then it was 60. Then it was 90. Then it jumped all the way to 180. To me, 60 was the best, but I would certainly welcome 90 days. Under no circumstances should the ADR window be set further out in advance than the final posted park hours. It's very frustrating to "pick" your park 180 days in advance based on crowd calendars that are predicting a "3" or "4" only to have operational changes cause the prediction to rise to "7" or "8" and "Not Recommended" status 60 days before your visit. You make a change in plans only to find that your new targeted park has no ADRs left. A move back to a 60 day ADR window would largely eliminate this problem.

We found the 60 day window to be great at DLR. I wish wdw would go back to this as well!