The US Covid Recovery is Exceptional. Why? What did it do different?

[cobright]

(written from an American POV but I welcome any insight on this from abroad)

I like to pull up the graphs from time to time, on rainy days mostly, and see how we're doing and how our recovery is comparing with the rest of the world. The comparison is stark and unsettling. I'll throw some of the charts up to make the visual comparison but it's clear that a lot of other countries are doing a much better job at this than we are, and I'm just curious what the average person thinks might be the reason for this?

What got me was the daily crude death rate (deaths per 100k population).
The US is averaging about 0.25 deaths per 100k population daily. Most of the developed nations have death rates a fraction of ours, even when corrected for population. Japan and Korea are 0.005 and 0.004 respectively. Australia, Denmark, Germany, and Ireland are all between 0.06 and 0.08 deaths per 100k per day. Even India's crude death rate is only 0.04 and falling.

The repercussions are obvious. Besides the incredible difference in lives lost, the economic fallout for the countries that controlled their pandemic is mitigated. Much of the developed world is back to work at something resembling normal. Germany is looking at about a $600Billion cost for the time they shut down, or 15% of their GDP. The pandemic is going to cost the USA $8Trillion, or 40% of our GDP.

Why is the rest of the world better at keeping their people alive and their businesses open than we are? I'm not looking for political opinions, I'm interested in the practicalities. What did they do that we didn't? What was different about them. I have my own suspicions, but I've recently bumped into a few with wildly different thoughts on this and now I'm curious; I'm not poking an argument, just legit curious.

 

[RamblingMad]

If you think of Europe as the equivalent of the US, each country is roughly a state. Some did better than others in Europe. The same applies to the US.

Europe also has public healthcare available.

I think, at the end of the day, it really boils down to the impact of healthcare inequality in the US. We're way too selfish to provide more equal healthcare to all of our citizens. We also have a penchant for freedom, which hasn't been good for us when it comes to the virus. I saw a Sky News reporter asking a man protesting shutdowns the following: why are you protesting for the right to be infected? I think, it's really those two things that are driving the higher death rates and cases in the US.

 

[AlohaNow]

it's clear that a lot of other countries are doing a much better job at this than we are, and I'm just curious what the average person thinks might be the reason for this?

Oh hon, I could tell you the reason, but I'd be banned for sure.

 

[aprilchem]

Do you live in the US? Do you watch the news and know what's going on with our government? If so, then you already know the answer to this.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Why is the rest of the world better at keeping their people alive and their businesses open than we are? I'm not looking for political opinions, I'm interested in the practicalities. What did they do that we didn't?

Seriously? It is impossible to answer your question without getting into politics. IMO, a public health crisis should not be political, however, it was politicized from the beginning, and that is unfortunate.

 

[RamblingMad]

Seriously? It is impossible to answer your question without getting into politics. IMO, a public health crisis should not be political, however, it was politicized from the beginning, and that is unfortunate.

It's also driven by weather. Cold weather forces people inside. You can't always socially distance if you're in a small space.

 

[aggiedog]

It's cold in large parts of Europe. Cold is not the reason, or at least not a large part. The hot spots this summer were in the south. West Texas is currently exploding and it's not that cold there either.

The answer lies, as has been stated multiple times, with reasons that are not allowed to be discussed.

To skirt those, I agree that our American lack of both universal accessible health care and limited public health infrastructure and funding has been one part of the problem.

Lack of early and accessible reliable testing.

Lack of a coordinated response across the board, in everything including testing, contact tracing, PPE supplies, lock down criteria, etc.

Lack of trust in science based facts.

Young people not believing they can get sick or transmit the virus - the average age of those testing positive has steadily decreased over the last many months. This is true for Europe as well, from what I've read.

 

[RamblingMad]

It's cold in large parts of Europe. Cold is not the reason, or at least not a large part. The hot spots this summer were in the south. West Texas is currently exploding and it's not that cold there either.

The answer lies, as has been stated multiple times, with reasons that are not allowed to be discussed.

To skirt those, I agree that our American lack of both universal accessible health care and limited public health infrastructure and funding has been one part of the problem.

Lack of early and accessible reliable testing.

Lack of a coordinated response across the board, in everything including testing, contact tracing, PPE supplies, lock down criteria, etc.

Lack of trust in science based facts.

Young people not believing they can get sick or transmit the virus - the average age of those testing positive has steadily decreased over the last many months. This is true for Europe as well, from what I've read.

Think about it this way. Here in AZ, we had 50 plus days of 110 degrees. We weren't outside. We were gathering inside, so our cases went up. It drove us inside, and our cases went up. Now, the Midwest is cold, which is driving people inside.

Think of the sunbelt as having an opposing summer to the Midwest. We spend time outside mainly in the fall, winter, and spring. We stay inside in the summer. The Midwest is the opposite.

If people choose to go out and dine, where cases are more likely to increase, then it's really on them for the spread.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

If you don’t work you don’t eat. If you don’t work you lose your healthcare. Many jobs offer no sick time so people go to work sick. I know plenty of people who have been sick and gone to work. They can’t afford not to. Unemployment is a joke. Food banks are out of food. Some testing sites require a prescription. Well if you lost your health insurance and job how are you going to afford a doctor visit (telemed) to get this prescription. So you don’t get tested and spread it.

 

[J'aime Paris]

Because Americans are generally less healthy than our European friends. So when we contract Covid, we have less robust immune systems to fight it.

We eat more....Europeans are generally stunned by our American portion sizes
We eat processed food and crap!....yes, they have it too but I think they tend to eat more real food
We are sedentary....I've never walked more than when I lived in France for 4 months
We work toooooo much and many don't take our vacations....Europeans love a nice long rejuvenating holiday
We tend to be more stressed with overpacked schedules....I think Europeans know how to relax better (tea time, siestas, long lunches where you can digest your food)
We are getting larger and larger, it's so unhealthy and leads to all sorts of medical complications.
And surely many more examples...

We lead in heart disease, obesity, and diabetes. These are contributors to not being able to fight off a virus.

 

[mrodgers]

Why just those select countries? Why is it always US bad when other 1st world countries are worse. What about the UK, Italy, Brazil? What about the beloved did it perfect the best in the world Sweden? Sweden is worse than us and revered by all buying into the fear to have done it right.

Edit: UK and Sweden flopped to the other side of the US by a near imperceptible amount since the last time I gathered numbers.

 

[AustinTink]

Lack of trust in science based facts.

The list is long, but this is what it ALL boils down to.

 

[mrodgers]

Lack of trust in science based facts.

For many of us, it's not a lack of trust in science based facts. It's lack of trust that we are getting information that is science based facts. We just don't trust government agencies telling us how we are all going to die unless we hide in our basement when we look at the numbers and realize we have a better chance of drowning, getting killed in an auto accident, or chance of dying from a heroin overdose than we are of dying of Covid.

 

[JimMIA]

Why just those select countries? Why is it always US bad when other 1st world countries are worse. What about the UK, Italy, Brazil? What about the beloved did it perfect the best in the world Sweden? Sweden is worse than us and revered by all buying into the fear to have done it right.

Edit: UK and Sweden flopped to the other side of the US by a near imperceptible amount since the last time I gathered numbers.

The only countries that matter are the ones who fit the political narrative.

 

[GreatLakes]

It's cold in large parts of Europe. Cold is not the reason, or at least not a large part. The hot spots this summer were in the south. West Texas is currently exploding and it's not that cold there either.

The answer lies, as has been stated multiple times, with reasons that are not allowed to be discussed.

To skirt those, I agree that our American lack of both universal accessible health care and limited public health infrastructure and funding has been one part of the problem.

Lack of early and accessible reliable testing.

Lack of a coordinated response across the board, in everything including testing, contact tracing, PPE supplies, lock down criteria, etc.

Lack of trust in science based facts.

Young people not believing they can get sick or transmit the virus - the average age of those testing positive has steadily decreased over the last many months. This is true for Europe as well, from what I've read.

Because Americans are generally less healthy than our European friends. So when we contract Covid, we have less robust immune systems to fight it.

We eat more....Europeans are generally stunned by our American portion sizes
We eat processed food and crap!....yes, they have it too but I think they tend to eat more real food
We are sedentary....I've never walked more than when I lived in France for 4 months
We work toooooo much and many don't take our vacations....Europeans love a nice long rejuvenating holiday
We tend to be more stressed with overpacked schedules....I think Europeans know how to relax better (tea time, siestas, long lunches where you can digest your food)
We are getting larger and larger, it's so unhealthy and leads to all sorts of medical complications.
And surely many more examples...

We lead in heart disease, obesity, and diabetes. These are contributors to not being able to fight off a virus.

Both of these two posts combined address our problem quite well.

The top post is discussed quite often while the bottom one is far too absent from our national discussion about this pandemic. Outside of the age demographic which no one can control, short of dying young, our general lack of a health in this country has made this pandemic worse than it had to be. We are a fat, sedentary society that doesn't get enough sleep. The percentage of the population that gets extremely sick and dies due to this virus is much higher than it should be because of it.

Even bringing it up brings out the wrath of people but it is true. I have lost track of how many times a report on a "young and otherwise healthy" individual is not an otherwise healthy individual. They are often overweight. Yes, there will be outlier cases of actually healthy individuals getting the disease and not fairing well but outliers always exist. We need to get serious about our own health in this country and we need to do it ourselves. We can't wait for "the government" to do it for us. The government isn't going to come in and cook us a meal that didn't start in a box or knock the TV remote out of our hands and make us go on a walk. That is all on us.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The US is averaging about 0.25 deaths per 100k population daily. Most of the developed nations have death rates a fraction of ours, even when corrected for population. Japan and Korea are 0.005 and 0.004 respectively. Australia, Denmark, Germany, and Ireland are all between 0.06 and 0.08 deaths per 100k per day.

Why is the rest of the world better at keeping their people alive and their businesses open than we are? I'm not looking for political opinions, I'm interested in the practicalities. What did they do that we didn't? What was different about them.

Being mindful about the rules, I am from Ireland and I can offer some insight

In March, when we shut down, our Prime Minister at the time was a medical doctor. He actually renewed his medical license and went back into the healthcare system for a few weeks as well as being Prime Minister. As he was a medical doctor, he respected our Chief Medical Officer and the two of them could talk doctor to doctor.

Irish people in general follow the rules, yes we disagree with various Government policies but right from the start in March there was a huge buy in from the Irish people regarding the restrictions and controlling Covid.

One of the Government Covid policies was to expand our public hospital capacity. From March to August, the Irish Government did a deal with private hospitals to add their beds to the national pool of public hospital beds. This meant that anyone who needed hospital treatment for Covid got it, even if they had no health insurance or had no money to pay for hospital care.

Our healthcare system is basically divided into 3 types of people
People who are low income or on benefits have whats called a medical card, which gives them free healthcare such as hospital care, regular GP and prescriptions.
People who can pay for private health insurance. Generally if people are working and are earning more than the cut off level for a medical card, they will be able to afford private health insurance.
Very few people have no health insurance or not on a medical card.

Our death numbers in March and April were mainly in care homes. The average age of death was 82.
Our death numbers since the summer have been low, average age of death is 40

While restrictions were eased over the summer, the majority of the hospitality industry has remained closed since March. This has caused a huge surge in at home alcohol sales in grocery stores and liquor stores.

We saw the surge of a second wave in September, when schools went back to in person classes, and there were family gatherings and house parties.

We are now in the middle of a second lockdown.

Basically in Ireland, to contain the spread of transmission
Good working relationship between Government and Chief Medical Officer
Buy in from the population in general to restrictions of movement
Buy in from the population in general regarding mask wearing
Closure of inside dining, closure of bars which don't serve food, closure of all entertainment industry
Good healthcare system where even homeless can get hospital treatment

(hopefully mods I have written this in a careful way)

Because Americans are generally less healthy than our European friends. So when we contract Covid, we have less robust immune systems to fight it.

We eat more....Europeans are generally stunned by our American portion sizes
We eat processed food and crap!....yes, they have it too but I think they tend to eat more real food
We are sedentary....I've never walked more than when I lived in France for 4 months
We work toooooo much and many don't take our vacations....Europeans love a nice long rejuvenating holiday
We tend to be more stressed with overpacked schedules....I think Europeans know how to relax better (tea time, siestas, long lunches where you can digest your food)
We are getting larger and larger, it's so unhealthy and leads to all sorts of medical complications.
And surely many more examples...

We lead in heart disease, obesity, and diabetes. These are contributors to not being able to fight off a virus.

As a European who has spent alot of time in America over the last 20 years, I agree with all this. Many of the food regulations allowed by American FDA are not allowed by the EU FDA.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Over-under on # of pages before this thread gets closed as too political: 4.5. Place your bets.

 

[JimMIA]

Over-under on # of pages before this thread gets closed as too political: 4.5. Place your bets.

It was designed to be political.

 

[Karin1984]

Come back to us, Europeans, in a few months. ;-)

 

[SmartyBacon]

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