The US Covid Recovery is Exceptional. Why? What did it do different?

[Karin1984]

I don't see an option to report an entire thread for violating the rules. Perhaps that's something these boards need. There is no good outcome from this IMHO.

Look in the left corner of the posts, there is a button 'report' .

 

[Planogirl]

The US has handled this poorly but there really is no way to discuss the reasons fully.

 

[SmartyBacon]

.

 

[Karin1984]

I've certainly done that on other threads. I meat there is no way to bulk report an ENTIRE topic. Report the first comment perhaps? Still fairly new here!

With this thread, I would report the first post. If it's later in the thread and there is a specific comment that violates rules, you report that specific comment. When it's the entire thread, just go with the original post.

Oh, and

 

[NotUrsula]

Unfortunately, at this moment and in this place, you cannot separate the political from the practical when it comes to COVID mortality. The best answer I could provide in this context is going to leave a lot of things out.

Yes, as a general rule Americans are not as healthy as Europeans and Asians of the same socioeconomic bracket. However, most poverty here isn't quite as dire as it is in the less-developed parts of Asia, so that isn't the entire reason.

What it comes down to is our health care system (and tangentially, the politics surrounding how health care is paid for.) The US heathcare system simply is no longer equipped to deal with large-scale contagions, because the only way to stop them is to have the national government wholly comply with and enforce evidence-based health regulations. We did better in 1918, but even then there was resistance within the US government because of perception that compliance weakened the war effort. All of the scientific progress that has been made since then is as nothing when you let politicians interfere with public health actions. (And no one party is responsible for all of the damage; there is plenty of blame to go around over the past 50 years.)

My personal feeling about this pandemic is that, sadly, it will not end until the total casualties are on a par with what was seen in 1918 (about 5 million worldwide, 675K in the US.) At this point we are nowhere near that, but the way we are going, I think we will eventually get there.
The loss of that many lives in such a short span of time will have an immense effect on us in every aspect that you can imagine, not least of which psychologically. My hope is that the losses will eventually shock this nation into re-thinking a lot of our infrastructure choices, which in the past few decades have been based strictly on the financial bottom line, which has proven tragically short-sighted.

Americans as a whole like to live under a rosy delusion that everything in our lives is under our own control. Nothing like a little bit of nature gone wild to prove that it isn't so.

 

[SaintsManiac]

For many of us, it's not a lack of trust in science based facts. It's lack of trust that we are getting information that is science based facts. We just don't trust government agencies telling us how we are all going to die unless we hide in our basement when we look at the numbers and realize we have a better chance of drowning, getting killed in an auto accident, or chance of dying from a heroin overdose than we are of dying of Covid.

Hyperbole doesn’t help. That’s a big reason why we are still in this mess.

And I don’t have a basement.

 

[Colleen27]

I think there are a few reasons that aren't explicitly political.

1. We are the only developed country in the world without some sort of universal health care program. That means people here get less routine care, so are in overall poorer health, and wait longer when they are ill before seeking treatment because they have to weigh it against the OOP costs of doing so. In a pandemic situation, that hinders an effective response. If you don't seek treatment until you're critical, there's less that can be done than if you seek treatment at the first signs of a serious case... and sometimes it is just plain too late.

2. We are the only advanced/modern country that hasn't passed meaningful income support programs to facilitate stronger isolation measures and improve compliance with the measures that are implemented. People here are in the position of either protecting their health or protecting their income/businesses, and many see the virus as less of a risk than poverty or bankruptcy or losing the security it took a lifetime to build.

3. We are a fatter and more sedentary country on whole, which increases the percentage of the population that is at high risk of complications from the virus. So even if other nations see the same resurgence of spread based on weather/weather-driven behavioral changes, they're still not likely to see the same kind of fatality rates that we will. And hand-in-hand with that, we're also a far more climate-controlled nation; we don't really embrace either hot or cold weather for outdoor activities, preferring to go from our temperature-controlled houses to our remote-start cars to our indoor destinations and back again with scarcely an open window in sight. So we're likely to see a stronger seasonality of the virus than other places, not just in the winter heating season in the north but also in our air conditioning-driven southern summer surge while other countries were enjoying a lull.

Of course, there are also the unavoidably political elements that have undermined efforts to mandate masks, improve testing, and establish effective contact tracing. And then there's the fact that we have everything ***-backwards in terms of our priorities - keeping schools closed while demanding bars and restaurants reopen, for example, and worrying more about the economy/stock market than about essential services. I'm not sure that is entirely political. I'd argue it is cultural as well, and that to some degree it transcends politics, but it definitely has a political component. Especially in an election year.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I've certainly done that on other threads. I meat there is no way to bulk report an ENTIRE topic. Report the first comment perhaps? Still fairly new here!

You can report the first post and in the remarks section reference the entire thread.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

I don't see an option to report an entire thread for violating the rules. Perhaps that's something these boards need. There is no good outcome from this IMHO.

You must love twitter.

 

[SmartyBacon]

.

 

[BadPinkTink]

And hand-in-hand with that, we're also a far more climate-controlled nation; we don't really embrace either hot or cold weather for outdoor activities, preferring to go from our temperature-controlled houses to our remote-start cars to our indoor destinations and back again with scarcely an open window in sight. So we're likely to see a stronger seasonality of the virus than other places, not just in the winter heating season in the north but also in our air conditioning-driven southern summer surge while other countries were enjoying a lull.

I don't think this is spoken about enough. Us Europeans are always so amazed at the widespread use of air conditioning in America. Air conditioning in European homes is not standard, even in the hotter Mediterranean countries.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

You know, I'm not old by most definitions and I'm right in the wheelhouse for the demographic for that. I've managed to avoid most traditional social media except LinkedIn, This, and NextDoor. I really believe I'm a happier person for it!

My point was the fact twitter is censoring some news, etc . From what I understand it's due to those people and stories being reported. Free speech is very one sided on social media and other venues...imo.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't think this is spoken about enough. Us Europeans are always so amazed at the widespread use of air conditioning in America. Air conditioning in European homes is not standard, even in the hotter Mediterranean countries.

I've heard that a lot from friends who have spent a lot of time overseas. And it isn't just Europe - my daughter was really surprised by all the places in Japan that weren't air conditioned when she was there, even though their summers are MUCH hotter than ours here in Michigan. Here at home, she's about the only one of her peer group who grew up in a house without a/c.

I've also heard a lot of statements from friends who grew up or have lived abroad along the lines of "there is no bad weather, only bad clothing" as a rational for enjoying outdoor dining with patio heaters, gatherings around firepits and other outdoor socialization for a much longer season than is normal in most of the US.

 

[EMom]

It’s been a week or so since I looked at US stats, but I seem to remember over half our deaths were the quite elderly, especially those in nursing homes. Depending on what source you rely on, about 45% of all US Covid-19 deaths have been from those in such facilities

To have returned any Covid-19 positive person to a nursing home, full of vulnerable residents, was unforgivable. Yet states kept doing it. It’s no better than blindfolding yourself, then shooting a gun into a crowded room. If state officials hadn’t sent COVID-19 carriers into nursing homes, our numbers would be much better, but you can’t unring a bell.

 

[RangerPooh]

We lack universal health care. This itself brings out inequalities in our health care system; the coverage people receive, where they receive care, and the type of care that they receive when seeking services. We also have leaders at the national and state level that are not on the same page. Without going into detail, the inability to be on the same page resulted in a lack of consistency in the message being delivered to the American people.

 

[SaintsManiac]

It’s been a week or so since I looked at US stats, but I seem to remember over half our deaths were the quite elderly, especially those in nursing homes. Depending on what source you rely on, about 45% of all US Covid-19 deaths have been from those in such facilities

To have returned any Covid-19 positive person to a nursing home, full of vulnerable residents, was unforgivable. Yet states kept doing it. It’s no better than blindfolding yourself, then shooting a gun into a crowded room. If state officials hadn’t sent COVID-19 carriers into nursing homes, our numbers would be much better, but you can’t unring a bell.

Which states did that? My grandmother-in-law needed 2 negative tests before returning to her nursing home. And when she finally did return they had an entire wing just for covid recoveries where they quarantined further.

I'm in Louisiana.

 

[JimMIA]

Which states did that? My grandmother-in-law needed 2 negative tests before returning to her nursing home. And when she finally did return they had an entire wing just for covid recoveries where they quarantined further.

I'm in Louisiana.

New York did it, and continued to do it for a long time. I'm not sure if they are still doing it.

 

[Colleen27]

It’s been a week or so since I looked at US stats, but I seem to remember over half our deaths were the quite elderly, especially those in nursing homes. Depending on what source you rely on, about 45% of all US Covid-19 deaths have been from those in such facilities

To have returned any Covid-19 positive person to a nursing home, full of vulnerable residents, was unforgivable. Yet states kept doing it. It’s no better than blindfolding yourself, then shooting a gun into a crowded room. If state officials hadn’t sent COVID-19 carriers into nursing homes, our numbers would be much better, but you can’t unring a bell.

I'm not sure what the alternative to that was/is, though. Nursing homes have gotten better at infection control now so it isn't resulting in the outbreaks it did early on, but discharging patients who were hospitalized from nursing homes or elderly people who were hospitalized from their own homes but need rehab to get back home isn't really a viable solution either. We don't have the home care/elder housing infrastructure to meet those patients' needs without relying upon the existing nursing home system.

 

[godisney14]

When compared to countries in Asia that have handled it better than the US:

There’s a great disparity with diet(!), lifestyle (mode of transportation), scientific facts vs ideology, broader healthcare and social welfare coverage, beliefs in privacy/freedom, and very importantly, individualism vs collectivism.

 

[JimMIA]

We lack universal health care.

We don't lack universal health care. Nobody goes without health care -- it is unethical for doctors to refuse to treat patients, and they don't do that.

We do not have universal federal government provided healthcare insurance. Big difference.

We also have leaders at the national and state level that are not on the same page.

The US is a republic, unlike most countries, and the national government is constrained by our constitution from imposing its will on our states.

In addition, the 50 states are very different in geography, demographics, weather, infection rates and just about every other factor in any kind of discussion like this.

National "control" would be a disaster.

Without going into detail, the inability to be on the same page resulted in a lack of consistency in the message being delivered to the American people.

LOL. Without going into detail, the issues faced by the American people create a need for a wide range of messages tailored to their states' specific local needs.