Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[Dean]

Have you had the chance to find in the POS you have the statement saying that for point chart balance only the 2BR counts and not the studios and 1BR? Thanks

I know where it is but haven't pulled it out since my return from out of the country for 2 weeks. But clearly that's what the FL statues say unless the developer has specifically chosen otherwise and included that in the POS. I haven't seen a statement that they have in the POS. If you can show me a statement where they specifically and directly say that, I'll be convinced, but given the wording in the POS and FL statute 721, I think it would have been included here were it present.

We've already gone through this. I guess they have to write an "understanding the product understanding ack.". We have clearly different opinions on everything, and it's fine since this is a forum and everyone can express theirs.

I'm not sure what you're arguing with as the Product understanding checklist simply restates the POS information and as quoted, it doesn't say reallocation are restricted by vacation home. It's a static document for a POS that can and will change. It would have to specifically say so in order to make the case. Trying to say it hints at it is simply not sufficient. Regardless trying to hold them to the checklist at the time of signing is not going to fly. I'll have to see if I have a copy of a full one but I suspect it even references the POS and states the POS takes authority.

 

[LindaYoung]

I think whoever is going to talk to DVC’s senior management about this should ask DVC to stick with what they have told us. They told us if they increase points in one season or unit, they will make a corresponding decrease elsewhere. If they are doing that, then the reallocation does not bother me. If they aren’t, I think it is unethical and deceitful. It is possible to point this out to DVC senior management without resorting to a law suit. I think you need to get access to DVC senior management, like the President of DVC and other senior executives. They may not even realize what their underlings are doing. This could be like the Wells Fargo scandal, in some ways.

 

[cruisin5]

I think whoever is going to talk to DVC’s senior management about this should ask DVC to stick with what they have told us. They told us if they increase points in one season or unit, they will make a corresponding decrease elsewhere. If they are doing that, then the reallocation does not bother me. If they aren’t, I think it is unethical and deceitful. It is possible to point this out to DVC senior management without resorting to a law suit. I think you need to get access to DVC senior management, like the President of DVC and other senior executives. They may not even realize what their underlings are doing. This could be like the Wells Fargo scandal, in some ways.

This is one of the points "we" can't agree on. Can the corresponding decrease be made in a different type of unit. Is it the total number of points to book all rooms every night of the year OR the total number of points to book a studio every night of the year that cannot change? I always thought it was all rooms every night of the year.

 

[OKW Lover]

I think whoever is going to talk to DVC’s senior management about this should ask DVC to stick with what they have told us.

They told us that when signing the paperwork to buy DVC we were granting DVD the right to administer the product. It seems to me that they are doing exactly that.

 

[Dean]

I think whoever is going to talk to DVC’s senior management about this should ask DVC to stick with what they have told us. They told us if they increase points in one season or unit, they will make a corresponding decrease elsewhere. If they are doing that, then the reallocation does not bother me. If they aren’t, I think it is unethical and deceitful. It is possible to point this out to DVC senior management without resorting to a law suit. I think you need to get access to DVC senior management, like the President of DVC and other senior executives. They may not even realize what their underlings are doing. This could be like the Wells Fargo scandal, in some ways.

They are doing that within the legal guidelines since the lockoff's are counted as one entity.

 

[Dean]

Have you had the chance to find in the POS you have the statement saying that for point chart balance only the 2BR counts and not the studios and 1BR? Thanks

OKW 1993 Exhibit A "Real Estate Interest and Point Formulation". It says

(b) "A demand factor shall be determined for each type of Vacation Home (two-bedroom and three-bedroom) ...
(d) The total demand days per year for each respective type of Vacation Home shall be added together to yield a total of demand days per year for all season groups for all two-bedroom Vacation Home and for all three-bedroom Vacation Homes.

Earlier it gives a description of the various units and how many 2 & 3 BR villas, no mention of the lockoff under the description.

 

[dwg]

I have not read the entire thread due to the length. So forgive me if this has been asked. I am not sure how the reallocation of points is done but regardless of whether we are talking about units, seasons, etc. I was always under the impression that the total number of points needed across the entire point chart should not change.

I am a BWV owner so I started with comparing the BWV point chart for 2019 and 2020. For 2019 the total points across the entire chart by adding all weekly points is 10,246. For 2020 the total points creeped up to 10,382.

I than compared the 2019 and 2020 Beach Club point chart. For 2019 the total points were 3,622. For 2020 the total points increased to 3,737.

So this is more than a reallocation of points. It is also an increase in total points. Is this the primary issue of this thread?

 

[OKW Lover]

I am a BWV owner so I started with comparing the BWV point chart for 2019 and 2020. For 2019 the total points across the entire chart by adding all weekly points is 10,246. For 2020 the total points creeped up to 10,382.

I than compared the 2019 and 2020 Beach Club point chart. For 2019 the total points were 3,622. For 2020 the total points increased to 3,737.

Would 2020 being a leap year have anything to do with this?

 

[Chuck S]

Would 2020 being a leap year have anything to do with this?

Don't forget you have to multiply those totals by the number of each type unit at the resort to get a true total of points.

 

[Dean]

I have not read the entire thread due to the length. So forgive me if this has been asked. I am not sure how the reallocation of points is done but regardless of whether we are talking about units, seasons, etc. I was always under the impression that the total number of points needed across the entire point chart should not change.

I am a BWV owner so I started with comparing the BWV point chart for 2019 and 2020. For 2019 the total points across the entire chart by adding all weekly points is 10,246. For 2020 the total points creeped up to 10,382.

I than compared the 2019 and 2020 Beach Club point chart. For 2019 the total points were 3,622. For 2020 the total points increased to 3,737.

So this is more than a reallocation of points. It is also an increase in total points. Is this the primary issue of this thread?

One question is whether they are only tied to the full villa for lockoff's and as I read the information that is the case. Clearly this is how DVCMC has interpreted it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I have not read the entire thread due to the length. So forgive me if this has been asked. I am not sure how the reallocation of points is done but regardless of whether we are talking about units, seasons, etc. I was always under the impression that the total number of points needed across the entire point chart should not change.

I am a BWV owner so I started with comparing the BWV point chart for 2019 and 2020. For 2019 the total points across the entire chart by adding all weekly points is 10,246. For 2020 the total points creeped up to 10,382.

I than compared the 2019 and 2020 Beach Club point chart. For 2019 the total points were 3,622. For 2020 the total points increased to 3,737.

So this is more than a reallocation of points. It is also an increase in total points. Is this the primary issue of this thread?

It is one part of it. The lockoff premium was increased thus adding point requirements for booking with no reduction required. That ability is built into the POS although DVC had not really done an increase to it previously.

 

[bobbiwoz]

It is one part of it. The lockoff premium was increased thus adding point requirements for booking with no reduction required. That ability is built into the POS although DVC had not really done an increase to it previously.

So adding these lockoff premium points to the total number of points in the resort is allowed, and has always been allowed?

 

[zavandor]

So adding these lockoff premium points to the total number of points in the resort is allowed, and has always been allowed?

I do not think it's allowed. There are many concerns, from Florida law to how the reallocation paragraph is spelled out (an increase has to be balanced by a decrease). They have changed twice the product understanding document to get more leeway, but they didn't change the POS. So they've changed their interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves.
This is a summary of this discussion, details are in the other 53 pages

 

[Dean]

So adding these lockoff premium points to the total number of points in the resort is allowed, and has always been allowed?

As I read it yes and in reality it's always been there because we all know the points for a studio plus a 1 BR are higher than a 2 BR.

 

[Donna M]

I've read all 1,054 posts and it seems to be a lot of back and forth without too much forward progress. I understand there are a couple people who have talked with some higher ups who should have some answers. We need Disney to explain why they did what they did with the lockoff units. People just want the justification for the way they reallocated the 2020 charts.

 

[crvetter]

I've read all 1,054 posts and it seems to be a lot of back and forth without to much forward progress. I understand there are a couple people who have talked with some higher ups who should have some answers. We need Disney to explain why they did what they did with the lockoff units. People just want the justification for the way they reallocated the 2020 charts.

I have what I assume to be a final conversation scheduled today. I hope that they provide some clarity. However, when it comes to Lockoff Premiums I suspect they are fully in their rights to adjust those. Especially at resorts without dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms. However, my question has always been is their a maximum number of points required to book a home for an entire year. That is the question they are researching again this week (mind you these are the top of the group researching this).

 

[Dean]

I have what I assume to be a final conversation scheduled today. I hope that they provide some clarity. However, when it comes to Lockoff Premiums I suspect they are fully in their rights to adjust those. Especially at resorts without dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms. However, my question has always been is their a maximum number of points required to book a home for an entire year. That is the question they are researching again this week (mind you these are the top of the group researching this).

I think that's part of the issue, it's number of points to book non lockoff villas that's guaranteed and protected.

 

[Donna M]

I have what I assume to be a final conversation scheduled today. I hope that they provide some clarity. However, when it comes to Lockoff Premiums I suspect they are fully in their rights to adjust those. Especially at resorts without dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms. However, my question has always been is their a maximum number of points required to book a home for an entire year. That is the question they are researching again this week (mind you these are the top of the group researching this).

Thanks for taking the time to get answers for all of us. We just want an explanation in plain English that doesn't feel like we are being brushed aside.

 

[crvetter]

OKW 1993 Exhibit A "Real Estate Interest and Point Formulation". It says

Earlier it gives a description of the various units and how many 2 & 3 BR villas, no mention of the lockoff under the description.

I can't find this Exhibit as Exhibit A is the drawings in the POS that I have found. I was curious in reading it.

 

[DougEMG]

I have what I assume to be a final conversation scheduled today. I hope that they provide some clarity. However, when it comes to Lockoff Premiums I suspect they are fully in their rights to adjust those. Especially at resorts without dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms. However, my question has always been is their a maximum number of points required to book a home for an entire year. That is the question they are researching again this week (mind you these are the top of the group researching this).

Hopefully they will be able to give you an answer to if there is a maximum upper limit they can set the prices to for studios, 1 bedrooms, etc. Not just for the lock-off 2 bedroom. I would just like a definite answer to this, cause with the lock-off premium I want to make sure they can't legally set 1 bedrooms and studios higher than the 2 bedroom.