Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[Wakey]

Owning does not give you access to the property unless you have a reservation so ownership is not part of the equation.

You need to re read my post

 

[Chuck S]

You need to re read my post

Even with a reservation, you must follow Disney guidelines while on property. Just as the tenants in my rental properties have to follow guidelines I set up...like no real Christmas Tree (fire hazard) and no Rottweilers or pit bulls (insurance requirement) or I can evict them.

 

[carolina_yankee]

All roads at WDW are owned and maintained by Disney, I believe. I don't think any legal protest can be done anywhere that's on Disney's side of the welcome signs without Disney's permission. I remember Disney refused to put up signs on their roads for Bonnet Creek until they were ordered to do so, and they put them up in a different color style to distinguish them from Disney's signage. The only protests I've seen have been at the entrance to Hotel Blvd by Crossroads with a group of people standing on the sidewalk and holding signs. Totally meaningless unless staged for a news story to get some coverage of your cause.

As DVC members, we don't own a single speck of "property." We own a fractional real estate interest in a specific unit at a specific resort. That doesn't give us diddly squat with regard to access to anything, not even the specific unit of which we own an interest, unless we've booked to stay there on points.

Now, if you want to protest by the sales center, probably should book a stay at SSR and hope your actions aren't violating code of conduct standards that Disney is within their legal rights to enforce. There are zero First Amendment rights on somebody else's private property, and we are absolutely not owners of any real property at Disney in any meaningful way.

I get people are upset, but the only constructive way to handle this is to contact Disney, ask for explanations, constructively express displeasure, and if convinced of illegality, take a legal route that, at best, would end in arbitration, and never see a court room, and likely cost tons of money. Disney aren't fools.

Dirk

 

[Dean]

You need to re read my post

I did, thanks for the clarification. One has to be a member in good standing to book. One who causes disruptions could be considered not in good standing. Regardless one would not have a right of protest on private property even if staying there.

 

[DVC92]

I wonder how many people buy points at a specific resort with the intent on staying only (or primarily) at that resort as opposed to those that buy points at any resort (perhaps on price or just what Disney is selling at the time) with the intent to use points at various properties. When I originally bought DVC in 1995 it was only the resort now known as Old Key West. As the system grew I mostly stayed at OKW, but did regularly also try the other resorts. Now, having moved to the Orlando area 5 years ago, I pretty much use my DVC points (which now include HH, AKL & Aulani) for Aulani so it really doesn't matter to me which resort my points are associated with.

So, what's the point? I guess its the way a person looks at reallocation. If reallocation at one resort results in a too high point cost per night in the category room you are looking at you can look at a different resort. Sure there is the home resort preference period (11/7) issue, but personally it hasn't been an issue. From reading posts above I get the impression that people are approaching this as a "buy at one resort, stay at one resort" situation.

If you bought x points at one resort based on the number of points it would take for a week in a certain size unit, then I can see how reallocation might affect you adversely. Or positively. But, do members actually calculate how many points to buy precisely on that basis? Or do they realize that their visits might change over the years as family sizes grow or decrease and buy points based on that? Or that a member might want to stay for 4 days one year, but 10 the next?

It just seem to me that most of the arguments (on both sides) above are based on the premise that people buy points for one week at one particular resort which is causing the angst.

I for one buy at where I want to stay so I can get the 11 month booking advantage. When I purchased OKW, it being the only resort, I purchased sufficient points for a 2BR in Magic. Obviously that purchase gave me great flexibility. Thereafter, I have purchased at BLT and VGF, resorts I desire to stay at. All three are my preferred resorts.

 

[DVC92]

When it gets right down to it, I believe the point restructuring and increase point cost are being done because of the opening of the Riviera, and not because of increased demand for studios and 1BRs which is the line (or should I say lie) that we are being fed. Raising the cost of points at the more expensive resorts, such as VGF, will allow DVC to charge more for Riviera and make buyers feel like they are getting a bargain. Also, the raising of points across all of the resorts will allow them to charge more points for studios and 1BRs so people have to buy more points to get their desired stay. More $$$ in Disney's pockets.

 

[mdembko]

So, they have not done any redistribution of points between resorts, and since there's no lockoff premium at the Poly you are safe from that. All they have done at the Poly is reallocate points from the bungalows to the studios. There is some arguments being made on here that this is against the law - that they can only move points across seasons, not across units - but DVC has done this dozens of times over the years so I severely doubt this.

So the reason they are OK to do what they did at the Poly is that the bungalows were so far overpriced that they do not get occupied by members, meaning they get sent the breakage/cash sales. Disney can easily argue that this harms all the members at the Poly because unoccupied rooms mean that not all owners can have access to the rooms at the resort. Lowering the points on the bungalows will get them rented more, and that benefits DVC as a whole.

Now you are correct that it means you get less nights/more expensive rooms, which don't seem very beneficial. Unfortunately, this was inevitable when they built the bungalows and sold so many points on them. (And they may eventually do it even more.) This is corporate greed, which is not illegal in any way- and in fact encouraged by our financial system.

I think the Poly Studios may be different from other resort Studios in the way that DVCMC defines a "unit". In other resorts a unit consists of Studio, 1 & 2 Bedroom Vacation Homes. For the Polynesian the units consist of either all studios or all Bungalows.

 

[mustinjourney]

I of course can't know this - but I would guess most people buy with the thought that they will at least switch out of their home resorts some of the time. The two biggest parts of the sales pitch are "luxury stays at large savings" and "ability to exchange to other resorts/cruises/ABD/Concierge collection". This is why they keep taking THAT away from re-sale - if they didn't think it was a selling point then why take it away.

(Off topic to this thread - but it still blows me away that they can really limit resale to a single resort. Imagine if it was a resort with popularity of VGF and you only had enough points for a studio - you could easily get locked out of even being able to USE your points.)

Point transfers in the future could be interesting. Points are supposed to be points. But I’m guessing we’re going to have to differentiate between pre and post 2019 resale points for transfers.

 

[Bing Showei]

Point transfers in the future could be interesting. Points are supposed to be points. But I’m guessing we’re going to have to differentiate between pre and post 2019 resale points for transfers.

That shouldn't be too difficult, though. They already differentiate between pre and post 2011 points. Pre-2011 points, when transferred can be used on DCL, ABD, and all that fun stuff.

 

[mustinjourney]

That shouldn't be too difficult, though. They already differentiate between pre and post 2011 points. Pre-2011 points, when transferred can be used on DCL, ABD, and all that fun stuff.

I know that’s technically true, but who transfers points in for use in ABD or DCL? That’s literally* just throwing money away.

*by literally I mean figuratively.

 

[Bing Showei]

I know that’s technically true, but who transfers points in for use in ABD or DCL? That’s literally* just throwing money away.

*by literally I mean figuratively.

Hahaha! Who knows? The exchange into DVC2 resorts may be the new DCL/ABD and we find ourselves wondering the same thing.

 

[Dean]

I know that’s technically true, but who transfers points in for use in ABD or DCL? That’s literally* just throwing money away.

*by literally I mean figuratively.

Hahaha! Who knows? The exchange into DVC2 resorts may be the new DCL/ABD and we find ourselves wondering the same thing.

As noted, they can track each point and it's qualifications now so adding additional restrictions and tracking them likely won't be too difficult. Presuming that the new resort will be a new system with a crossover and that resale points will be restricted to either their home resort or the new system, it shouldn't be difficult to track the qualifications.

 

[mustinjourney]

As noted, they can track each point and it's qualifications now so adding additional restrictions and tracking them likely won't be too difficult. Presuming that the new resort will be a new system with a crossover and that resale points will be restricted to either their home resort or the new system, it shouldn't be difficult to track the qualifications.

Sorry my original post was not clearer. I was speaking more to the members now having to specifically identify their points as being pre or post 2019 so that a potential purchasers will know whether they can use the points at legacy 14 or new resorts.

I assume Disney will be able to track the points, but members (particularly direct members that might not pay much attention to anything) could get tripped up by getting a point transfer in a few years from now.

 

[glamdring269]

Sorry my original post was clearer. I was speaking more to the members now having to specifically identify their points as being pre or post 2019 so that a potential purchasers will know whether they can use the points at legacy 14 or new resorts.

I assume Disney will be able to track the points, but members (particularly direct members that might not pay much attention to anything) could get tripped up by getting a point transfer in a few years from now.

I think this confusion is why you'll see this change get 'clarified' at some point. It will be based on your account and not your contract. So if you're a direct buyer and receive a transfer from someone who bought post-apocalyptic resale, then you will default to the terms of your account.

Should be easier to track for Disney. Could be wrong though.

 

[CarolynFH]

I think this confusion is why you'll see this change get 'clarified' at some point. It will be based on your account and not your contract. So if you're a direct buyer and receive a transfer from someone who bought post-apocalyptic resale, then you will default to the terms of your account.

Should be easier to track for Disney. Could be wrong though.

OTOH, when points are used (to book, bank, borrow or transfer), don’t you have to specify which contract they come from? The contract number will identify points as “post-apocalyptic resale” or not. Thus transferred points will retain their UY and home resort and status re pre/post 2011, 2016, and 2019 changes.

 

[LindaYoung]

I am confused by how DVC manages its points at a single resort. What is meant by breakage of studios and 1 BRs vs 2 BR lockoff premium? Is DVC required to balance out the total number of points across one resort i.e. if they make studios and 1BRs more points, do they need to reduce points elsewhere so the total number of points per resort is still the same?

 

[mustinjourney]

I think this confusion is why you'll see this change get 'clarified' at some point. It will be based on your account and not your contract. So if you're a direct buyer and receive a transfer from someone who bought post-apocalyptic resale, then you will default to the terms of your account.

Should be easier to track for Disney. Could be wrong though.

I’m saying the opposite. Those transferred points will retain their second class citizenship rights even if transferred to a first class citizen. I mean direct owner.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I am confused by how DVC manages its points at a single resort. What is meant by breakage of studios and 1 BRs vs 2 BR lockoff premium? Is DVC required to balance out the total number of points across one resort i.e. if they make studios and 1BRs more points, do they need to reduce points elsewhere so the total number of points per resort is still the same?

The lock off premium actually allows them to raise studios and 1 brs that come from 2 br lockoffs without reducing points elsewhere. It's the dirty little secret of the 2020 point chart changes.

 

[LindaYoung]

The lock off premium actually allows them to raise studios and 1 brs that come from 2 br lockoffs without reducing points elsewhere. It's the dirty little secret of the 2020 point chart changes.

I do not recall reading this in my purchase documents and I read them all. I guess I missed it or did not understand if I did read it. I thought the way it worked is if they made an increase in one unit or season, they had to rebalance elsewhere so the total points on the resort chart balanced out.

Does anyone have the wording from the disclosures that state they can increase points at studios and 1 BRs due to the 2BR lockoff premium without decreasing elsewhere?

Is there a limit to how much they can increase studios and 1 BRs without a corresponding decrease elsewhere?

Can anyone explain in more detail how this works out from a practical perspective?

Now that they did such a major reallocation and increased studios and 1 BRs, how would this impact us in the future? I am assuming it would now be hard for them to increase points for studios and 1BRs at the WDW resorts since they did such a massive reallocation this year.

 

[freediverdude]

I do not recall reading this in my purchase documents and I read them all. I guess I missed it or did not understand if I did read it. I thought the way it worked is if they made an increase in one unit or season, they had to rebalance elsewhere so the total points on the resort chart balanced out.

Does anyone have the wording from the disclosures that state they can increase points at studios and 1 BRs due to the 2BR lockoff premium without decreasing elsewhere?

Is there a limit to how much they can increase studios and 1 BRs without a corresponding decrease elsewhere?

Can anyone explain in more detail how this works out from a practical perspective?

Now that they did such a major reallocation and increased studios and 1 BRs, how would this impact us in the future? I am assuming it would now be hard for them to increase points for studios and 1BRs at the WDW resorts since they did such a massive reallocation this year.

See this is just what I was talking about that we need to put a big paragraph somewhere in the purchasing section warning people. Yes Disney can and will increase the points on these studios and 1 bedrooms, and no there really is no limit on how high, because separately they are not counted in the balancing of points across the resort. They are only counted as the points for a 2 bedroom lockoff in the calculations. So even though they probably wouldn't, theoretically they could make those studios and 1 bedrooms more points than a 2 bedroom if they wanted. And I think as more new resorts open with higher point charts, the lockoff premium as it is called will get higher. The one thing stopping them at some resorts is where they also have dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms, and those are part of the calculations so there would be a limit somewhat.