Being Requested to Get Whooping Cough Vaccine to Hold Infant

[Daniela Rose]

Just to be clear... smoking while pregnant happened for more then one generation (still around). Although it is certainly better that they don't, to say it is 100% causing damage to the baby is erroneous. It can, but, it isn't going to be a sure thing. As I said, many millions of people were born to mothers that smoked AND drank during pregnancy and they are and have been, in many cases, healthier then todays batch of the germ free generation.

PS... but we all were vaccinated. Had polio shots as well when they were brand new.

Back to add that the difference is now we know better.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Actually, as far as I know, in order to come to the US as a refugee or migrant, you need to be fully vaccinated. Heck, I had to get all my vaccines again, when I moved to Canada from the US as a nine year old, despite having been fully vaccinated in the US and having the paperwork to prove it.

This isn't a "refugee" problem, it's a problem within the Somali community, who've been in North America for over a generation. The majority of them arrived in the late 1990's, when civil war broke out in Somalia. Many of them have bought into the anti-vaccine nonsense, and as a result are choosing to either not vaccinate their American-born children, or delay their vaccinations until they are school aged.

These are not "unvaccinated refugees", these are unvaccinated American citizens.

There needs to be a public heath outreach campaign within the community, in order to counter the isolationist fear and paranoia around vaccines that's developed. It's complicated, and there is a lot more to the issue than just "vaccines cause autism". There have been rumours that the free vaccines donated to African countries were a plot by the American gov't to make black people sterile. My mum actually heard the same ugly rumour in Pakistan, which is also having vaccine compliance issues.

The thing that muddies the waters is that MANY people being called "refugees" or "migrants" are actually here illegally. No one wants to use the term illegal immigrant because it isn't PC, but this is one of the MANY reasons there is a set legal procedure for entering this country that we SHOULD be enforcing. There was no screening, and no one checked to make sure they had their vaccines, so yes, it is a "refugee" or "migrant" problem as much as it is a problem with US citizens choosing not to vaccinate. The Somali population being discussed is just ONE pocket of this, and there are many more waiting to blow. Many of the Somalis choosing not to vaccinate their American born children got here as unvaccinated illegal immigrants.

 

[Magpie]

The thing that muddies the waters is that MANY people being called "refugees" or "migrants" are actually here illegally. No one wants to use the term illegal immigrant because it isn't PC, but this is one of the MANY reasons there is a set legal procedure for entering this country that we SHOULD be enforcing. There was no screening, and no one checked to make sure they had their vaccines, so yes, it is a "refugee" or "migrant" problem as much as it is a problem with US citizens choosing not to vaccinate. The Somali population being discussed is just ONE pocket of this, and there are many more waiting to blow. Many of the Somalis choosing not to vaccinate their American born children got here as unvaccinated illegal immigrants.

From the original article: "Fourty-six of the 48 confirmed cases (of measles) are in children 10 years old or younger."

These are almost certainly not illegal immigrants. These are American citizens, born in the USA.

According to CNN (excluding the specific situation in the Somali community, who are not recent migrants anyway):

Families who refuse to vaccinate their children are:

Wealthier than average, with annual incomes more than four times the poverty level.

Non-Hispanic white.

Married couples in English-speaking households.

Educated, with college degrees.

Covered by private health insurance.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/03/health/the-unvaccinated/

I can find nothing online to support the idea that the majority of adult Somali immigrants are undocumented or arrived illegally. Considering they had to fly to the US, this seems unlikely.

Also, speaking of undocumented migrants, Mexico's vaccination rate in children is 97 percent, compared to the US's 92 percent. So if anyone's spreading disease, it'd be unvaccinated American vacationers spreading it south of the border, not illegal Mexican immigrants.

Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS

Edited to add:

Far as I can tell, most Somalis (and other foreign-born African-Americans) likely emigrated legally either through the Refugee Act of 1980 or through the Diversity Visa Program, which was an act passed in 1990. They are required to be fully vaccinated: https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/vaccinations.html

There was also a second influx of Somali refugees, who arrived in 2014, but they came through refugee camps, and would likewise have been completely up to date on their vaccinations. (Like these people: http://www.startribune.com/new-somali-refugee-arrivals-in-minnesota-are-increasing/281197521/#1)

There are roughly 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the US, most of whom are from Mexico, followed by South America and Asia. Almost all the countries they come from have higher vaccine compliance rates than the US.

 

[minniecarousel]

My oldest grandson just turned 3. His parents asked that my husband & I get the shot. We happily agreed as we care for him often. They didn't take him out much in his first 3 months, mainly to avoid non-inoculated people. I think this is a common request now.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Actually, as far as I know, in order to come to the US as a refugee or migrant, you need to be fully vaccinated. Heck, I had to get all my vaccines again, when I moved to Canada from the US as a nine year old, despite having been fully vaccinated in the US and having the paperwork to prove it.

This isn't a "refugee" problem, it's a problem within the Somali community, who've been in North America for over a generation. The majority of them arrived in the late 1990's, when civil war broke out in Somalia. Many of them have bought into the anti-vaccine nonsense, and as a result are choosing to either not vaccinate their American-born children, or delay their vaccinations until they are school aged.

These are not "unvaccinated refugees", these are unvaccinated American citizens.

There needs to be a public heath outreach campaign within the community, in order to counter the isolationist fear and paranoia around vaccines that's developed. It's complicated, and there is a lot more to the issue than just "vaccines cause autism". There have been rumours that the free vaccines donated to African countries were a plot by the American gov't to make black people sterile. My mum actually heard the same ugly rumour in Pakistan, which is also having vaccine compliance issues.

Yeah..it's not really been categorized as refugee issue but more of an anti-vaxxer influence issue.

Here's CNN's link http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/health/measles-minnesota-somali-anti-vaccine-bn/

The largest Somali community in the U.S. reside in MN. Within that community there is a large distrust of vaccines due to anti-vaxxer influence (as you already mentioned). What the CNN article points out is that "from 2000 and roughly 2008, the Somali community in Minnesota actually had some of the highest vaccination rates for 2-year-olds of any population in the state" It was a correlation (not causation) some parents saw that started the research into autism rates among Somalian-American children around 2008 after they had been researching and found the fraudulent article that stated a causal link between vaccines and autism. The anti-vaxxers took notice and bombarded the community with their viewpoint thus switching the tides to a distrust of vaccines and led to the outbreak. I will say I personally hadn't heard about the free vaccines aspect. All the articles I have read about the MN outbreak speak only to the influence anti-vaxxers had not about lies and rumors spread about vaccines sent to Africa.

 

[Magpie]

Yeah..it's not really been categorized as refugee issue but more of an anti-vaxxer influence issue.

Here's CNN's link http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/health/measles-minnesota-somali-anti-vaccine-bn/

The largest Somali community in the U.S. reside in MN. Within that community there is a large distrust of vaccines due to anti-vaxxer influence (as you already mentioned). What the CNN article points out is that "from 2000 and roughly 2008, the Somali community in Minnesota actually had some of the highest vaccination rates for 2-year-olds of any population in the state" It was a correlation (not causation) some parents saw that started the research into autism rates among Somalian-American children around 2008 after they had been researching and found the fraudulent article that stated a causal link between vaccines and autism. The anti-vaxxers took notice and bombarded the community with their viewpoint thus switching the tides to a distrust of vaccines and led to the outbreak. I will say I personally hadn't heard about the free vaccines aspect. All the articles I have read about the MN outbreak speak only to the influence anti-vaxxers had not about lies and rumors spread about vaccines sent to Africa.

I didn't know that! Thank you for the link. It matches up with the results of this study: http://www.jabfm.org/content/27/4/458.full

I was just reading elsewhere that Somali immigrants prior to 9-11 were making good progress at integrating with the larger US community. But afterward, in the wake of rising fear and mistrust, they became more isolated. And, I'm guessing, more vulnerable to fear-based thinking, such as what is being pushed by anti-vaxxers. Minnesota was described as now being the "most segregated" state in the US.

It looks like what I'd heard about the rumour that vaccines are part of a race-based population control conspiracy is more of an issue in Kenya currently, and was also a problem in Nigeria, back in 2003, where fears about the polio vaccine sterilizing people led to more than triple the number of polio cases just three years later. And, as I mentioned, my mum heard it in Pakistan, just a few years ago. It's one that keeps raising its ugly head. However, Somalia's low rates of vaccination are being attributed more to the breakdown of their health system after years of civil war, than any conspiratorial thinking. (And, of course, in order to get a US visa, they had to be vaccinated.)

 

[nhelen79]

I'm a mom and had this similar fear when my daughter was born in the hospital. I remember in her first 4 months, i put a bottle of hand sanitizer and hoped that friends/relatives washed their hands first before holding my daughter. Some people took it as an insult (like my mom).

As for me, whenever I came to visit anyone's baby, I would make sure that I wasn't sick at the time, and asked them first if i need to wash my hands. I think people shall just think for the baby and understand that his/her immune system is very fragile. We adults wouldn't want to hurt the baby in anyway. Ego shall be put aside when it comes to baby health, regardless of whose baby.

 

[goofyernmost]

There are lots of dangerous things people did while pregnant or to their kids in past generations. It doesn't mean that with all of the education available today we shouldn't strive to do better for our children.

Is something 100% guaranteed to go wrong if I smoke while I'm pregnant? Maybe not, but why take that chance?

I'm also going to add that my mom passed of lung cancer, so you could say I'm sensitive to the subject. Who by the way, smoked as a teen and had quit over 35 years prior. But you know what...the damage was already done and didn't show its ugly head until 35-40 years later.

So because not everyone was seriously affected, is it supposed to be ok or something?

My mom didn't have me in a car seat as a child. Does that mean I shouldn't have used them for mine? I mean, I survived without one.....

So where's your scientific backup for your quote that kids of parents who smoked and drank were healthier than today's kids?

Back to add that the difference is now we know better.

What in the hell is the matter with you people? I only took exception to the one person that said the smoking while pregnant 100% guaranteed a problem. It didn't then and it doesn't now. I never said that it wasn't better and wiser to not smoke, I just said that hyperbole is no better then denial.

No it is not a good idea to smoke or drink or ride a ride a Disney if you are pregnant, but, to say that it will automatically cause death or some other problem is no more true then saying that nothing will happen if you do. That is not the case. I don't have any proof other then life experience. We didn't have anywhere near the problem with asthma or allergies then that are now prevalent. We have gone a long way in cutting back on air pollution and other toxic things in our air, and we no longer have rooms where the air is blue with cigarette smoke, yet, more kids and adults are having problem then ever before when almost everyone smoked. Blame those problems on whatever you want, but, that doesn't explain why things are worse now than they were back then. Logic would tell you that something doesn't add up.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

From the original article: "Fourty-six of the 48 confirmed cases (of measles) are in children 10 years old or younger."

These are almost certainly not illegal immigrants. These are American citizens, born in the USA.

According to CNN (excluding the specific situation in the Somali community, who are not recent migrants anyway):

Families who refuse to vaccinate their children are:

Wealthier than average, with annual incomes more than four times the poverty level.

Non-Hispanic white.

Married couples in English-speaking households.

Educated, with college degrees.

Covered by private health insurance.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/03/health/the-unvaccinated/

I can find nothing online to support the idea that the majority of adult Somali immigrants are undocumented or arrived illegally. Considering they had to fly to the US, this seems unlikely.

Also, speaking of undocumented migrants, Mexico's vaccination rate in children is 97 percent, compared to the US's 92 percent. So if anyone's spreading disease, it'd be unvaccinated American vacationers spreading it south of the border, not illegal Mexican immigrants.

Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.IMM.MEAS

Edited to add:

Far as I can tell, most Somalis (and other foreign-born African-Americans) likely emigrated legally either through the Refugee Act of 1980 or through the Diversity Visa Program, which was an act passed in 1990. They are required to be fully vaccinated: https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/vaccinations.html

There was also a second influx of Somali refugees, who arrived in 2014, but they came through refugee camps, and would likewise have been completely up to date on their vaccinations. (Like these people: http://www.startribune.com/new-somali-refugee-arrivals-in-minnesota-are-increasing/281197521/#1)

There are roughly 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the US, most of whom are from Mexico, followed by South America and Asia. Almost all the countries they come from have higher vaccine compliance rates than the US.

This is based on the data we can collect. Illegal immigrants don't typically have medical histories that go to the CDC. They don't participate in CNN surveys. They try NOT to leave a paper trail. They wouldn't be included in the sample group CNN used to reach that conclusion.

 

[Magpie]

This is based on the data we can collect. Illegal immigrants don't typically have medical histories that go to the CDC. They don't participate in CNN surveys. They try NOT to leave a paper trail. They wouldn't be included in the sample group CNN used to reach that conclusion.

Then I'm sorry, without data, I really can't buy into the idea that illegal immigrants, the vast majority of whom are from countries that have higher vaccination rates than the US, are going to be a major source of infection disease at some point in the future.

The measles outbreak in the Somali community is clearly a homegrown problem.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Then I'm sorry, without data, I really can't buy into the idea that illegal immigrants, the vast majority of whom are from countries that have higher vaccination rates than the US, are going to be a major source of infection disease at some point in the future.

The measles outbreak in the Somali community is clearly a homegrown problem.

Data? What's that? You just have to feel its true and magically it becomes true.

 

[Magpie]

Data? What's that? You just have to feel its true and magically it becomes true.

Right! Silly me, I forgot.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Then I'm sorry, without data, I really can't buy into the idea that illegal immigrants, the vast majority of whom are from countries that have higher vaccination rates than the US, are going to be a major source of infection disease at some point in the future.

The measles outbreak in the Somali community is clearly a homegrown problem.

Where are people coming from with higher vaccine rates than the US, and please remember that the data the UNICEF and other world organizations puts out is woefully compete. They can only chart compliance rates in developed areas with adequate record keeping. They don't account for those who have no records. Many illegal immigrants have never been seen by a doctor or even had their birth recorded.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

Data? What's that? You just have to feel its true and magically it becomes true.

Incomplete data passed off as exhaustive is worse than none at all. It reaches a false conclusion rather than simply saying "we don't know"

 

[Magpie]

Incomplete data passed off as exhaustive is worse than none at all. It reaches a false conclusion rather than simply saying "we don't know"

But based on no data whatsoever, why would anyone even suggest the idea that invisible pockets of illegal immigrants are harbouring disease which could spread to good, law-abiding Americans?

There's nothing to even suggest that idea is true.

 

[Magpie]

Where are people coming from with higher vaccine rates than the US, and please remember that the data the UNICEF and other world organizations puts out is woefully compete. They can only chart compliance rates in developed areas with adequate record keeping. They don't account for those who have no records. Many illegal immigrants have never been seen by a doctor or even had their birth recorded.

Most illegal immigrants in the US come from Mexico, which has a higher vaccination rate than the US. I linked the rates above! I think there's only two South American countries with lower vaccination rates than the US, and they don't contribute a significant number of illegal immigrants.

Also, vaccination compliance rates can actually be very high in under-developed areas, because they send teams into villages, and everyone gets their jabs whether they want them or not. The forced vaccination of poor children is a serious ethical issue, for people who care about personal liberties, freedoms, etc.

It's much easier to be unvaccinated in the US, where you have the right to refuse, than many other countries. There's a reason China's rate is 99%!

If you want to say that all data is useless, and it's better to just rely on "feelings" or "common sense" (or whatever else you want to call it), then I really can't continue debating you.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

But based on no data whatsoever, why would anyone even suggest the idea that invisible pockets of illegal immigrants are harbouring disease which could spread to good, law-abiding Americans?

There's nothing to even suggest that idea is true.

The number of people entering this country with no previous access to healthcare suggests it. I'm in the trenches on this. I see it every day. Our city is a Catholic Social Services refugee center. Kids who have never seen a stethoscope or a syringe before they were . Never been to school. Never owned a pair of shoes. A LOT of them, and they are being distributed all over the country. These kids are unvaccinated, trust me, and they may or may not seek out follow up medical care to become fully vaccinated where they land. And those are the ones here legally. The illegal immigrants in the same situation have even less access. Yes, its difficult to gather concrete data on a mobile, poorly documented population that is here illegally and so wants to remain poorly documented, but to claim that hey don't exist is shortsighted. What I originally said still stands. This is just as much a problem with people coming into this country as it is with people already here choosing not to vaccinate.

 

[Westcoastwild]

But based on no data whatsoever, why would anyone even suggest the idea that invisible pockets of illegal immigrants are harbouring disease which could spread to good, law-abiding Americans?

There's nothing to even suggest that idea is true.

No, there isn't. And from observation, the places where these resurrected diseases are spreading like wildfire AREN'T refugee heavy areas. School districts for example- southern Idaho, which has tons of refugees and possibly even more illegal immigrants, does not see these outbreaks in schools. If it would happen, it would be happening there because the population of those groups is very large in comparison to elsewhere. You know who does have the problem? California or WA or OR, in school districts that are predominantly upper white middle class.

A measles incident in Seattle, for example, was due to someone- who had not had shots or given their baby shots- had traveled to South Asia and brought back the disease as a "souvenir". Now I'm not saying they are wealthy but given that they travelled internationally, then unknowingly exposed customers to the disease at a Whole Foods and a hipster sandwich place, I feel pretty confident in saying that these people were not illegal immigrants or refugees or even working class. What they probably were were anti-vaxxers. And if they didn't have their measles shot, they probably didn't have rubella vaccination either which I find even more horrifying.

I just have no toleration for anti-vaxxers. I've met more than a few. Even if there IS a link to autism- which has been debunked by multiple scientists- I would still think that a living and healthy autistic kid would be preferable to having a miscarriage or a baby with serious birth defects or losing a child under the age of 5 due to a compeletely preventable disease.

 

[Westcoastwild]

The number of people entering this country with no previous access to healthcare suggests it. I'm in the trenches on this. I see it every day. Our city is a Catholic Social Services refugee center. Kids who have never seen a stethoscope or a syringe before they were . Never been to school. Never owned a pair of shoes. A LOT of them, and they are being distributed all over the country. These kids are unvaccinated, trust me, and they may or may not seek out follow up medical care to become fully vaccinated where they land. And those are the ones here legally. The illegal immigrants in the same situation have even less access. Yes, its difficult to gather concrete data on a mobile, poorly documented population that is here illegally and so wants to remain poorly documented, but to claim that hey don't exist is shortsighted. What I originally said still stands. This is just as much a problem with people coming into this country as it is with people already here choosing not to vaccinate.

If they come directly into the US without passing through a refugee camp, I can believe that. Doctors Without Borders have been pushing medical companies to lower vaccine prices because that's a huge expense in medical assistance of those camps. The vaccines are a priority.

However, I think many of those kids may have had shots just not healthcare "exposure", and there's a barrier in communicating with them. I don't think they would be allowed in without a certificate of clean health and an immunization record. You have to to have proof of various shots for a visa. You don't need one for tourism. Refugee paperwork is probably closer to visa than tourist.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

I don't think they would be allowed in without a certificate of clean health and an immunization record.

I know for 100% certain, this is not true. Many kids come to the US with NO documentation of ANY kind, not even a birth certificate much less health records. If they urgently need to get out of where they are, they come. Period.