How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[CPanther95]

If you are talking about the one where the boyfriend was shot in the car, he made a tragic mistake. You don't say, "I've got a gun, I'm going to get the paperwork." And then reach down to your pocket(which is what the girlfriend says happened). You put your hands up and let the officer disarm you. With that said... It is a really sad situation. I don't know what else to say. I can't vilify anyone in this situation.

In many States you are required to immediately notify any officer that asks for your identification that you are carrying and then produce your permit. Other States have no requirement that you must inform the officer if you are currently (legally) carrying - precisely to avoid situations like this. Sadly Minnesota is one of the States that doesn't require the officer be notified, but the victim in this case probably felt it was the safer thing to do.

And if you are legally carrying, the officer should never disarm you, and should not make you disarm yourself. That, in itself, can be a dangerous maneuver. If you have a permit, there's no reason for the officer to mess with it at all.

 

[rajak73]

Obviously that is really upsetting too. I hadn't heard about it before you posted the link. The two shootings I mentioned were caught on video and the victims were shot by police officers while I would assume that the convenience store clerk was not shot by a police officer.

This shooting also was captured on video. So it's worse if a person is shot and killed by a police officer than by someone else? Number one rule, if you have a gun and get stopped by police you don't reach for anything until the officer decides what to do!

 

[lizabu]

From the video with the girlfriend the cop looked pretty shook up and it was probably a mistake. I come from a country where we don't carry guns and I personally consider guns to be scary. I don't know that the police officer could have done anything differently. I just think that it's tragic a life was lost and maybe we should be talking about it more. I was watching American news so maybe it's just become so common place that all it gets is a quick mention.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

In many States you are required to immediately notify any officer that asks for your identification that you are carrying and then produce your permit. Other States have no requirement that you must inform the officer if you are currently (legally) carrying - precisely to avoid situations like this. Sadly Minnesota is one of the States that doesn't require the officer be notified, but the victim in this case probably felt it was the safer thing to do.

And if you are legally carrying, the officer should never disarm you, and should not make you disarm yourself. That, in itself, can be a dangerous maneuver. If you have a permit, there's no reason for the officer to mess with it at all.

I just asked DH. He said you have the person step out of the car, the put their hands on the vehicle and the officers takes the gun. That's the only way I see it working. I'm not an officers so...

 

[gwynne]

In many States you are required to immediately notify any officer that asks for your identification that you are carrying and then produce your permit. Other States have no requirement that you must inform the officer if you are currently (legally) carrying - precisely to avoid situations like this. Sadly Minnesota is one of the States that doesn't require the officer be notified, but the victim in this case probably felt it was the safer thing to do.

And if you are legally carrying, the officer should never disarm you, and should not make you disarm yourself. That, in itself, can be a dangerous maneuver. If you have a permit, there's no reason for the officer to mess with it at all.

All the "laws" in the world won't stop misunderstandings. In reality, it's more about whether the officer thinks he feels threatened at the moment.

 

[mom2rtk]

From the video with the girlfriend the cop looked pretty shook up and it was probably a mistake. I come from a country where we don't carry guns and I personally consider guns to be scary. I don't know that the police officer could have done anything differently. I just think that it's tragic a life was lost and maybe we should be talking about it more. I was watching American news so maybe it's just become so common place that all it gets is a quick mention.

I'm glad all it got was a quick mention. Not enough facts are available for an in-depth discussion yet.

 

[PlutoPony]

I just asked DH. He said you have the person step out of the car, the put their hands on the vehicle and the officers takes the gun. That's the only way I see it working. I'm not an officers so...

Ah - that would make sense.
So far there's been no report that the officer asked him to get out of the car, just that he asked for his license.
Of course it's still early in the investigation

 

[lizabu]

This shooting also was captured on video. So it's worse if a person is shot and killed by a police officer than by someone else? Number one rule, if you have a gun and get stopped by police you don't reach for anything until the officer decides what to do!

Actually I think it is worse to be shot by a police officer. They're supposed to protect us and they receive training. It seems like a betrayal in some way. While getting shot by a bad guy is still getting shot but he's a bad guy and I don't have any expectations fror him.

 

[asta]

So sad for all involved but most if not all of these shootings could be prevented if people would do what the police tell them. I do not ever understand why someone thinks it is ok to fight with a police officer. Do what they tell you and then get a lawyer. Then contact the news to tell them how you were mistreated. You can't do any of this if you are dead because you tried to fight a police officer who is pretty much guaranteed to have a gun.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Ah - that would make sense.
So far there's been no report that the officer asked him to get out of the car, just that he asked for his license.
Of course it's still early in the investigation

Yes. But I am not a cop. I can only go by what I hear and read. Nothing I say is 100% certain or factual. I'm sure it is different in some places... Different training etc...

 

[gwynne]

Actually I think it is worse to be shot by a police officer. They're supposed to protect us and they receive training. It seems like a betrayal in some way. While getting shot by a bad guy is still getting shot but he's a bad guy and I don't have any expectations fror him.

Exactly. Certainly it's reasonable to expect there is a big difference between a trigger happy criminal and a police officer.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

It's just so heartbreaking that this keeps happening.

I saw more news about the Baton Rouge shooting than I did about this 64-times-more-deplorable story:

More than 60 shot in Chicago over July 4th weekend
CHICAGO — At least 64 people were shot in the nation’s third largest city over the Independence Day weekend, including four people who were fatally wounded.
The grim violence in Chicago, which has recorded 329 homicides already this year, continued despite stepped up street patrols by theChicago Police Department and the arrest of 88 gang members in two of the city’s most violent neighborhoods ahead of the holiday weekend.
...
The homicide victims included a man in his 30s who police found shot in his abdomen, another man who was found shot dead in a lot across the street from an elementary school and a 31-year-old man who was killed outside his father’s auto shop. The wounded included a 5-year-old girl and her 8-year-old cousin, who were each shot in the leg as they played with sparklers Monday night, the Chicago Tribunereported.​

 

[mnrose]

In the article I posted from Yahoo it says he was shot as he was putting his hands back up.
Its just too early to be outraged about it because we don't know what happened.
At this point it sounds like a tragic mistake made by the officer. I can't be outraged by that.
If it turns out to be about purposely shooting a black man, well that is a different story.

The thing is, unfortunately, I believe the officer reacted in part BECAUSE he was a black man, if only subconsciously. The man was told to get his license and registration. That's what he was doing. I'm trying to picture the same interaction with a white man, and not picturing the same result. There are a TON of people with concealed carry permits in this state. Many. Minnesota is an armed state. I have to believe that people with guns in their vehicle get pulled over all.the.time. Yet, this is the FIRST time I remember a shooting in a traffic stop. Am I surprised it was a black victim? No. No I am not.

 

[lizabu]

I saw more news about the Baton Rouge shooting than I did about this 64-times-more-deplorable story:

More than 60 shot in Chicago over July 4th weekend
CHICAGO — At least 64 people were shot in the nation’s third largest city over the Independence Day weekend, including four people who were fatally wounded.
The grim violence in Chicago, which has recorded 329 homicides already this year, continued despite stepped up street patrols by theChicago Police Department and the arrest of 88 gang members in two of the city’s most violent neighborhoods ahead of the holiday weekend.
...
The homicide victims included a man in his 30s who police found shot in his abdomen, another man who was found shot dead in a lot across the street from an elementary school and a 31-year-old man who was killed outside his father’s auto shop. The wounded included a 5-year-old girl and her 8-year-old cousin, who were each shot in the leg as they played with sparklers Monday night, the Chicago Tribunereported.​

The world has gone crazy

 

[megster1123]

For the video in the car...it's a terrible situation. But I watched the video and I'm thinking...so your boyfriend was just shot. And bleeding and moaning and dying. And rather than comfort him, hold him, SOMETHING...you whip out your phone to live stream and talk to THE PHONE. And not the man dying 2 feet to your left. The whole thing is just so messed up.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

The world has gone crazy

Less crazy this year than last:

As of early Monday night, three people had been killed and 36 others had been injured, leading Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson to express guarded optimism that the city would see a marked decline in violence for the holiday weekend, historically among the most violent in Chicago.​

The media is just paying more attention this year, because making cops look bad is in fashion. Not there aren't criminal-cops and cops-who-make-mistakes out there.

 

[gwynne]

For the video in the car...it's a terrible situation. But I watched the video and I'm thinking...so your boyfriend was just shot. And bleeding and moaning and dying. And rather than comfort him, hold him, SOMETHING...you whip out your phone to live stream and talk to THE PHONE. And not the man dying 2 feet to your left. The whole thing is just so messed up.

I'm not judging her. She will have years to grieve. Maybe she chose to document because otherwise the story might "change".

 

[CPanther95]

I just asked DH. He said you have the person step out of the car, the put their hands on the vehicle and the officers takes the gun. That's the only way I see it working. I'm not an officers so...

That's how you'd do it if you were going to disarm someone. But there's no reason, for an officer that stopped someone for a taillight, to require someone legally carrying to disarm.

It's not uncommon at all for a police officer to shoot himself while holstering his own gun. Trying to holster someone else's gun is even more dangerous. And the alternative is handing back an unholstered, loaded firearm to the citizen and asking him to holster it himself. That's all far mare dangerous than just leaving it alone safely secured by someone that passed the same FBI background check you did when you became a police officer.

 

[mom2rtk]

The thing is, unfortunately, I believe the officer reacted in part BECAUSE he was a black man, if only subconsciously. The man was told to get his license and registration. That's what he was doing. I'm trying to picture the same interaction with a white man, and not picturing the same result. There are a TON of people with concealed carry permits in this state. Many. Minnesota is an armed state. I have to believe that people with guns in their vehicle get pulled over all.the.time. Yet, this is the FIRST time I remember a shooting in a traffic stop. Am I surprised it was a black victim? No. No I am not.

You mind reading skills are top notch.

 

[megster1123]

I'm not judging her. She will have years to grieve. Maybe she chose to document because otherwise the story might "change".

I think it's one thing to document...another to just bold faced ignore the man dying. Obviously I've never been in her shoes, and as much as I try not to, I'm totally judging right now. I can't imagine being that man's family and seeing him not only die, but die being ignored like that.