How are we not more outraged about these shootings?

[megster1123]

Although I'm not a black person in America I can see why she pulled out her phone to video the situation.

She wanted to show what was actually occurring. Given what has happened in our country over the years with bad cops getting away with actions similar to this, it is the best tool she had to show the situation in real time versus the he said, she said game in court.

It doesn't appear to me that they were arguing with the cop. Yet again, we don't see what happened before the shots. I hope the cop had a body camera on him as well.

No, I don't believe all cops are bad. Quite the contrary. But if I were in her shoes with knowing the limited history I have, I would've likely done the same thing. Sad, absolutely. But smart in reality.

FWIW, from the footage I've seen this appears to be a tragic accident. You can hear the officer swearing. You can hear him physically shaken up.

I'm sad all the way around. My heart aches when I hear the 4 year old little girl trying to comfort her mom.

I agree with all of this. I'm not faulting her for documenting it - I totally get that. I guess it was more of the way she was "reporting from the scene." You can take a video and try to comfort a dying man at the same time.

 

[asta]

For anyone interested in learning some facts about police-involved shootings (rather than taking-as-fact the misleading drivel that come out of the mouths of the many idiots-who-read-teleprompters), the Washington Post has done some pretty excellent fact-gathering.

Here’s one screenshot of the 2015 data:
View attachment 179985

These numbers paint a different picture than what we hear about minorities being unfairly targeted. Two take aways - almost twice as many whites are killed by police officers and yet very little media coverage along with the collective outrage. And the big number that stands out is the overwhelming number of fatalities when they are in possession of a deadly weapon. So much for all of those guns protecting their owners.

 

[Hikergirl]

I agree with all of this. I'm not faulting her for documenting it - I totally get that. I guess it was more of the way she was "reporting from the scene." You can take a video and try to comfort a dying man at the same time.

I cant imagine what she was going through. I try not to judge the reactions of those who are in the middle of a traumatic experience. Its easy to sit here and rationally think what you would do in a situation but its another thing to be in the middle of it. You aren't going to be thinking rationally.

 

[asta]

now this guy may have done everything right but I have definitely seen people fight with officers. I think everyone needs to be taught how to react when stopped.

I am a white middle class woman probably a group that is statistically extremely unlikly to be shot and even I was taught that if I am stopped to only get out licence and registration if I can do it well before the cop gets to my car and have them in plain sight. Not to make sudden movements and to calmly explain before I do things.

so when I was stopped for having no sticker 2 days after I bought my first car (rule here is you have a week to get one) I calmly stated when I had no sticker and said "The paper work is in my glove box would you like me to get it" and waited until he said yes to reach over and open it.

I also work on a miltary base and one of the things we tell people due to the guards being armed is that we don't care whose approval you have at the moment when your standing in front of an 18 year old holding a semi-automatic rifle he is always right. If he is not right you can let your supervisor know and they can have a discussion with his superiors after you are no longer standing in front of a gun.

No one has been shot on the base but we would like to keep it that way.

I love this post. Common sense.

 

[CPanther95]

And the big number that stands out is the overwhelming number of fatalities when they are in possession of a deadly weapon. So much for all of those guns protecting their owners.

I assume you're kidding.

Looking at data showing only those killed by police officers and drawing that as a conclusion makes zero sense.

100 million people in this country aren't armed to protect themselves for a battle with police officers.

 

[sksjasams]

Don't try to bring facts into this! The 494 whites shot compared to 258 blacks just don't fit the agenda!

I don't think you are taking into consideration the fact that in our country 77% of the population is white and 13% is black. Yet, 34% of the deaths were black, not 13%.

 

[rajak73]

I don't think you are taking into consideration the fact that in our country 77% of the population is white and 13% is black. Yet, 34% of the deaths were black, not 13%.

And 66% of the deaths were not black.

 

[megster1123]

I cant imagine what she was going through. I try not to judge the reactions of those who are in the middle of a traumatic experience. Its easy to sit here and rationally think what you would do in a situation but its another thing to be in the middle of it. You aren't going to be thinking rationally.

I see what you're saying, but if you look at it that way...wouldn't having the mindset to take out your phone to document the situation be rational thought? It looks to me like she was thinking rationally and quite logically. Documenting what happened after the shooting and protecting herself and her child was smart. It just came off as extremely cold and indifferent towards the man in the process.

 

[gwynne]

I see what you're saying, but if you look at it that way...wouldn't having the mindset to take out your phone to document the situation be rational thought? It looks to me like she was thinking rationally and quite logically. Documenting what happened after the shooting and protecting herself and her child was smart. It just came off as extremely cold and indifferent towards the man in the process.

The "coldness" that you are seeing is one of the possible immediate effects of shock.
She was processing what she could process at the time. The enormity of the entire experience may not totally hit her for awhile.

 

[georgina]

To the OP, I am outraged, and very sad. But I believe this has been going on for a long time (decades?), but there was no video to show what really happened.

 

[MariMama]

For the video in the car...it's a terrible situation. But I watched the video and I'm thinking...so your boyfriend was just shot. And bleeding and moaning and dying. And rather than comfort him, hold him, SOMETHING...you whip out your phone to live stream and talk to THE PHONE. And not the man dying 2 feet to your left. The whole thing is just so messed up.

Yeah. I don't get it. WTH is wrong with people?

 

[megster1123]

The "coldness" that you are seeing is one of the possible immediate effects of shock.
She was processing what she could process at the time. The enormity of the entire experience may not totally hit her for awhile.

Possibly. I just stated what I thought based off of what I could see.

 

[Hikergirl]

I see what you're saying, but if you look at it that way...wouldn't having the mindset to take out your phone to document the situation be rational thought? It looks to me like she was thinking rationally and quite logically. Documenting what happened after the shooting and protecting herself and her child was smart. It just came off as extremely cold and indifferent towards the man in the process.

I guess you could look at it that way. All I meant is that one doesn't really know what they would do in that situation because they aren't thinking the way they would if they were just sitting in the park on a regular day.
I'd like to think I'd be trying to stop the bleeding, but then I might be thinking I should record this so people will know what happened, or I might be so scared that I don't do anything but cry and scream.

 

[gwynne]

Possibly. I just stated what I thought based off of what I could see.

And that is understandable, but it's also why people in shock and grief are sometimes unfairly judged.

 

[gwynne]

I guess you could look at it that way. All I meant is that one doesn't really know what they would do in that situation because they aren't thinking the way they would if they were just sitting in the park on a regular day.
I'd like to think I'd be trying to stop the bleeding, but then I might be thinking I should record this so people will know what happened, or I might be so scared that I don't do anything but cry and scream.

She had a loaded gun aimed at her. She was recording, but being very careful how she moved. I'm not convinced that she would have been "allowed" to try to stop the bleeding.
She was aware the 4 year old had already seen a police officer shoot one person, I'm sure she didn't want the child to witness another shooting.
And, she had to be in shock. It was a terrible situation.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The thing is, unfortunately, I believe the officer reacted in part BECAUSE he was a black man, if only subconsciously. The man was told to get his license and registration. That's what he was doing. I'm trying to picture the same interaction with a white man, and not picturing the same result. There are a TON of people with concealed carry permits in this state. Many. Minnesota is an armed state. I have to believe that people with guns in their vehicle get pulled over all.the.time. Yet, this is the FIRST time I remember a shooting in a traffic stop. Am I surprised it was a black victim? No. No I am not.

There's a youtube video floating around Facebook that was produced by a black man. In it, he describes being pulled over (while armed) by a white police officer.

Anyway, despite his dread, the stop went flawlessly. I'm a big proponent of concealed carry, but I also believe the training class is necessary. And part of that class needs to include the proper way to interact with law enforcement. Likewise, I'm not sure training is always adequate for officers on how to deal with an armed public. Citizens identified as armed should never reach for anything, especially in their pockets. And officers should never make such a request.

 

[kimblebee]

FYI- Minnesota does not require cops to wear cameras so there is no additional footage.

 

[CPanther95]

There's a youtube video floating around Facebook that was produced by a black man. In it, he describes being pulled over (while armed) by a white police officer.

Anyway, despite his dread, the stop went flawlessly. I'm a big proponent of concealed carry, but I also believe the training class is necessary. And part of that class needs to include the proper way to interact with law enforcement. Likewise, I'm not sure training is always adequate for officers on how to deal with an armed public. Citizens identified as armed should never reach for anything, especially in their pockets. And officers should never make such a request.

That's why there should be a common standard nationwide. There should be a clearly specified way to handle this situation because neither citizens nor the police handle it consistently from person to person.

In the states that require you to inform the officer that you are carrying, some made it law that you inform the police officer, then you must wait for further instructions. Some states only say something like this:
"a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card"

Some will interpret that to mean that immediately upon notifying the officer, you should retrieve your permit and present it to him.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

I don't think there was any thread about the 14yo who's life was ended at a gun range in Florida recently.
So sad.

Is that the one where he was shot by his father??

 

[usnuzuloose]

It is not pleasant when these things happen. But every situation is different. For me I need to step back and hear what happened and let things be investigated. As time goes by other things start coming out. Officers really need to be very careful. You don't hear about all things. There was an incident here where a motorcycle cop was on the freeway and was literally hit by a person on purpose. My husband drove by the scene after it happened and they caught the guy quite a ways a way. Also had to different officers shot here on two different streets where on the streets trying to get through the mess. One man was shot for the man and woman who stole his truck. The one officer was killed at the motel. Then it was about 4 miles from there they shot the other one who died. And then shot the person who they stole the truck from who did live. And it took them a while to find out where they went to which was about 4o minutes away. I get upset with all these things. I pray for all of them.