MORE Brazilians?

[catne]

So, I'm watching the 10 PM Fox News over in Tampa...and they're discussing the purpose of Prez Obama's visit to WDW, with regard to the travel & tourist industry/increase tourism/create more tourism-related jobs. And the point of the story is speculation that Prez Obama will announce an easing for the visa-processing that Brazilians now go through to travel to US for vacation. Apparently it's not very easy to get a visa now, and they expect he'll be changing that.

So...if it's currently so difficult to get a tourist visa but there's still a bazillion Brazilian Tour Groups getting to WDW anyway...how many more will there be if the administration makes it easier?

I predict there will be a lot more BTG threads in the near future

 

[wbeem]

Disney is making more money now from International visitors than US visitors. Don't expect that to change any time soon. You may as well get used to hearing Portuguese.

 

[Marlton Mom]

A tour group is a tour group, Brazilian has nothing to do with it. I'm sure you've heard people talk about the behavior of the Pop Warner and Cheer groups that run amok during their visits.

I like to keep in mind that it's not a type of people who cause problems in this world, rather it's individuals that make poor choices and choose to behave in unfortunate ways. Sometimes these people come together in groups. Which group or culture they are affiliated with has nothing to do with the problem.

For as many boorish cheerleaders or Brazilians you can think of, there are always members of those groups that have good manners and are considerate to others. Please remember that behavior is an individual choice and not classify it by groups....

Thanks,
Marlton Mom

 

[mesaboy2]

So...if it's currently so difficult to get a tourist visa but there's still a bazillion Brazilian Tour Groups getting to WDW anyway...how many more will there be if the administration makes it easier?

Bazillions of Brazilians.

 

[Shakthi]

Indeed it's not easy to get visas to US in Brazil, but as long as you can prove you have the means to do it, it's perfectly fine. The dollar rate is down again in Brazil, which means middle/middle low class can afford to travel overseas. Brazilian credit cards allow their holders to divide payments in multiple installments without interest. In other words, plane tickets can be paid in 10 months, or more. Last but not least, last I heard, new US consulates are opening up throughout the country.

 

[catne]

Indeed it's not easy to get visas to US in Brazil, but as long as you can prove you have the means to do it, it's perfectly fine. The dollar rate is down again in Brazil, which means middle/middle low class can afford to travel overseas. Brazilian credit cards allow their holders to divide payments in multiple installments without interest. In other words, plane tickets can be paid in 10 months, or more. Last but not least, last I heard, new US consulates are opening up throughout the country.

Yes, that's exactly what they were talking about on the news...as of now, it can take as long as 100 days to get a visa from Brazil to US, and apparently an in-person interview with American consular personnel can be required, but there's only 4 offices in entire country of Brazil so some people actually have to fly to one of the consular offices to get the visa.

As for me, personally, we have never had any issues with Brazilian (or any other tour groups for that matter) We are seasoned WDW veterans and we know how to zag when the tour groups zig.

 

[jwhtewolfd]

... Don't expect that to change any time soon. You may as well get used to hearing Portuguese.

I travel alone in January, but I never felt more alone than when sitting waiting for LMA! or Fantasmic! and not hearing a single word of English around me. Being surrounded by literally thousands of people chanting, chattering, and hollering to other groups and not being able to understand a word of what's going on was unbelievably isolating. I honestly felt relieved when I heard someone speaking what I could make out to be French (and I barely passed high school French).

A tour group is a tour group, Brazilian has nothing to do with it. I'm sure you've heard people talk about the behavior of the Pop Warner and Cheer groups that run amok during their visits.

Yes, but Pop Warners and Cheerleaders can be communicated with. If they push into you, are being rowdy, cut you off, cut in line, block your way, etc. you can speak up. BTGs (and their "chaperons" - who are just kids themselves) pretend not to understand English, hand motions, body language, facial expressions or common courtesy. They become dumb and deaf if you dare try to communicate, politely or not. And I may not understand Portuguese, but I know what "Americano" means, and I know you are standing right behind me and talking about me loudly b/c I dared to stand my ground and not allow you and your pals to push me out of the way. I may not know exactly what you are saying, but I know what you are saying. To me, that makes a big difference.

 

[atp]

I don't know if there will be a huge change. As it is now, most people from Brazil who go to Disney are really wealthy. And those have no trouble getting a visa. The visa is difficult (and expensive) to get for the average person who can afford a trip every few years unlike the wealthy ones who can go whenever.

As for the tour groups, not sure that will change. The vast majority who go with tour groups are teenagers. Everyone who can afford it (no need to be that wealthy), saves money to do something special for their kids when they turn 15. For many, that is a trip to Disney. Since most parents can't afford or don't want to go with their kids...or the kids rather go on their own with friends, they send them with a tour guide.

Also, when you go with a tour group, it's much easier to get a visa.

If he makes this announcement, it will help, in my opinion, people who are not filthy rich but can afford trips. People who don't go with tour groups, people who live too far away from the only 4 cities that are able to give you a visa, that you have to be there in PERSON, by the way, you can't just mail something in like in the US. Also, the closest city for me has a 3 month wait. So if I didn't have a visa, and wanted to go to the US by the end of the year, I wouldn't be able to start booking anything until late march, when I would finally be receiving my visa in the mail after going there in person.

So yes, maybe the number of tourists will increase, but that doesn't mean all tour groups and certainly doesn't mean they will all go to Disney. I'd say most people I know never even want to set foot in there. They have no interest in ever going to Disney.

But I think the biggest change is that it will be a smoother, less expensive and time consuming process for those who already go...maybe they'll go more often or stay a bit longer...or just spend the money they'll be saving shopping more.

I don't think it will be anything drastic either, maybe they will make it easier for those who already had a visa before, maybe the renewal process will be easier. Maybe they will allow some people to request a visa via a form they mail in, like it used to be many, many years ago...and like it is in the US.

It could be they will finally honor the "reciprocity" they claim to have with Brazil and Brazil has with the US. As in, if the US requires us to have a visa to enter the US, we require Americans to have a visa to come to Brazil.

Brazil lets Americans get a visa like I described above, mailing in some papers. Whereas the US requires that you be present in a consulate, get fingerprinted, interviewed, your taxes, assets and all your bank accounts looked at and analyzed (not always, but sometimes). So the process is quite different and not very reciprocal.

 

[atp]

Yes, but Pop Warners and Cheerleaders can be communicated with. If they push into you, are being rowdy, cut you off, cut in line, block your way, etc. you can speak up. BTGs (and their "chaperons" - who are just kids themselves) pretend not to understand English, hand motions, body language, facial expressions or common courtesy. They become dumb and deaf if you dare try to communicate, politely or not. And I may not understand Portuguese, but I know what "Americano" means, and I know you are standing right behind me and talking about me loudly b/c I dared to stand my ground and not allow you and your pals to push me out of the way. I may not know exactly what you are saying, but I know what you are saying. To me, that makes a big difference.

I agree with you that Brazilian tour groups with a ton of teenagers are extremely annoying. I'd run the other way and I'm from Brazil too.

However, even though a lot of people have no manners and no consideration for others, no concept of "Hey, maybe not everyone wants to hear me chant" or "Not everyone wants to listen to the kind of song I'm listening to" and stuff like that, I really think that whenever you have a lot of teenagers, young adults or kids together with very little supervision, you are going to get crazy obnoxious behavior because most people in those age groups are not capable of behaving themselves and they are more clueless than most about the things I mentioned above.

So while I think the way the tour groups organize this is VERY wrong, I think they will keep doing it this way until DISNEY sets them straight and provides them with rules they have to follow like: NO CHANTING, no groups larger than X, no cutting in line or you will be removed from the park (the entire group). Stuff like that. They could also have tour groups "check in" so they can be allowed in the park...they have to say how many people are in the group, how many chaparones...and maybe provide some way for them to get FPs that doesn't inconvenience half the park.

If that doesn't happen, nothing will change. Most people everywhere, not just Brazil, are selfish, spoiled, and they don't have much of a conscience. They want to get their "money's worth", they will push and push and try to get away with everything they can.

Just like many on this board who go above and beyond to use all the discounts and rules to their advantage (except they are less annoying to others). If Disney allows this to happen, then it will keep happening. I kmow, I know, it's unfortunate they should even do anything, it should be common sense. But we are talking about 15 year olds here, travelling alone to a foreign country. How many 15 year olds do you know that would behave if there were no rules?

 

[Jennasis]

I have found it interesting that each time I've traveled abroad with large groups, we've always had meetings/classes beforehand about how to behave in the country we were going to. You know the saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So we behave in a way that is acceptable in that country. So I'm just a bit stymied as to why the Brazilian groups specifically feel that they can go to another country and not have to observe the social, cultural courtesies of that country. It's the chanting, clapping, cutting in line etc.

That said, I am all for easing the travel/VISA restrictions. I think international travel is wonderful. I'd love to visit Brazil. I love speaking to people from other countries. I'm happy to see/hear the many many accents, dialects and languages around the park.

 

[Jennasis]

I have found it interesting that each time I've traveled abroad with large groups, we've always had meetings/classes beforehand about how to behave in the country we were going to. You know the saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So we behave in a way that is acceptable in that country. So I'm just a bit stymied as to why the Brazilian groups specifically feel that they can go to another country and not have to observe the social, cultural courtesies of that country. It's the chanting, clapping, cutting in line etc.

That said, I am all for easing the travel/VISA restrictions. I think international travel is wonderful. I'd love to visit Brazil. I love speaking to people from other countries. I'm happy to see/hear the many many accents, dialects and languages around the park.

 

[Jing]

I have found it interesting that each time I've traveled abroad with large groups, we've always had meetings/classes beforehand about how to behave in the country we were going to. You know the saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So we behave in a way that is acceptable in that country .

I really hope those from other countries are not looking to "Jersey Shore" or "Real Housewives of . . . " as their model of behavior.

Go ahead - stimulate our economy!

 

[atp]

I have found it interesting that each time I've traveled abroad with large groups, we've always had meetings/classes beforehand about how to behave in the country we were going to. You know the saying "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So we behave in a way that is acceptable in that country. So I'm just a bit stymied as to why the Brazilian groups specifically feel that they can go to another country and not have to observe the social, cultural courtesies of that country. It's the chanting, clapping, cutting in line etc.

That said, I am all for easing the travel/VISA restrictions. I think international travel is wonderful. I'd love to visit Brazil. I love speaking to people from other countries. I'm happy to see/hear the many many accents, dialects and languages around the park.

Oh they know how to behave. They know what is appropriate, The US and Brazil are really not much different. People here and there don't act all that much different.

I have no idea why in the world they chant, but something tells me that's something the tour guides suggest and start. To make the trip more "fun". I don't really know what their logic is, but they must think it's fine since they are in a theme park and there are no rules against it? I'm sure they wouldn't chant in the streets of NYC. I really have no idea what the logic is there other than since Disney doesn't clearly forbid it then it must be allowed?

As for cutting in line that is clearly wrong and they know it. Anyone knows that is wrong. I have no clue why they do that. Although I'm not sure if you are talking about flat out cutting in line or just joining their group (I think both are wrong, since they are large groups, but I can see how someone would think that's ok). Again, I don't think it's a cultural difference, more like stupid things teenagers do when you put enough of them together and they get all brave and think they are so very special. I've seen behavior like that from all nationalities.

Honestly, I think people should write to Disney to "complain", but to suggest that they put some clear rules in place and enforce them. If chanting is not allowed (and I hope it isn't, because it's extremely annoying) then forbid it, and if you catch someone doing it, tell them stop or they will be escorted out of the park. It's not that hard to do. I'm thinking the problem here is that the tour guides and teenagers think they can get away with anything. If they thought they would get thrown out of the park for their behavior, they would not do it.

 

[LaurenT]

There are only 4 locations in Brazil where someone can go to do their interview for their visa. Brazil is a very large country....so it would be like you living in New York, but having to travel to Chicago just to get permission to go to Disney.
The idea is to allow people seeking visas to have their interview via video. You may see a whole new cross section of the Brazilian population....more families instead of mostly 20 somethings with the time and money to jump through hoops for the visa.
If I were a little kid in Brazil, it would make me sad to think that Americans didn't want me in Disney.....

 

[cmurray234]

My first ever visit to WDW took place in February. There were cheerleaders EVERYWHERE. And there were Brazilian tour groups everywhere.

It was a little like touring bizarro Disney World some of the time. I didn't know about the DIS back then. I didn't know that Brazilian touring groups had a "reputation"...heck, I didn't even know that WDW was a popular tourist destination for 15 year old Brazilians, much less that they tend to travel in large packs. I actually had to ask a cast member, "what was THAT?!" after a group passed me for about the 5th time. He sighed. "Those are the Brazilian tour groups".

I can tell you this. I learned VERY quickly to run in the other direction. The line-cutting, the screaming, the chanting and worst of all plowing people over (my 3 year old had to get doctored up in first aid because they knocked him to the ground) was INCREDIBLY off-putting. So anyone who says "it's not the Brazilians" to you I say "Yes. It is."

But it's not being Brazilian that's the problem. It's the fact that large groups of incredibly over-privileged but under-chaperoned 15 year olds are bound to behave badly. Extremely wealthy American teens don't tend to travel to foreign countries in packs without their parents. If they did, we'd have people in...say....Mallorca complaining "Can you believe what those American tour groups did on the beach?"

 

[Jennasis]

Oh they know how to behave. They know what is appropriate, The US and Brazil are really not much different. People here and there don't act all that much different.

I have no idea why in the world they chant, but something tells me that's something the tour guides suggest and start. To make the trip more "fun". I don't really know what their logic is, but they must think it's fine since they are in a theme park and there are no rules against it? I'm sure they wouldn't chant in the streets of NYC. I really have no idea what the logic is there other than since Disney doesn't clearly forbid it then it must be allowed?

As for cutting in line that is clearly wrong and they know it. Anyone knows that is wrong. I have no clue why they do that. Although I'm not sure if you are talking about flat out cutting in line or just joining their group (I think both are wrong, since they are large groups, but I can see how someone would think that's ok). Again, I don't think it's a cultural difference, more like stupid things teenagers do when you put enough of them together and they get all brave and think they are so very special. I've seen behavior like that from all nationalities.

Honestly, I think people should write to Disney to "complain", but to suggest that they put some clear rules in place and enforce them. If chanting is not allowed (and I hope it isn't, because it's extremely annoying) then forbid it, and if you catch someone doing it, tell them stop or they will be escorted out of the park. It's not that hard to do. I'm thinking the problem here is that the tour guides and teenagers think they can get away with anything. If they thought they would get thrown out of the park for their behavior, they would not do it.

I'm going to address each of the bolded points above in turn.

1. Do they? Even most of the obnoxious cheer groups have figured out to stop cheering in the park or late/early at their resorts because of the disruption to others it causes. IF they know it's wrong to chant, then they don't care. Which is a problem...and disrespectful to the US culture.

2. Sure they do. There are lots of things that are fairly acceptable in Brazil or other countries that isn't acceptable here.

3. Brazil is colorful, party-type place. Carnivale and all that. They are a bouyant and vibrant people. That's where the chanting comes from. Their exuberance. It isn't just the tour groups. When I was at the Special Olympics World GAmes with thousands of athletes and coaches from around the world, I noticed the Brazilian team was chanting and clapping all the time.

4. I don't know. I haven't seen any Brazilian tour groups in New York...then again, I've never HEARD them either, so maybe your on to something ahhahaha!

5. Finally, cutting in line is not "clearly" wrong. There are many MANY places in the world where there is no "queuing up". Go to Disneyland Paris and you'll be shocked at how people simply MOB the characters instead of lining up politely. Some countries/culture just don't understand the concept of waiting their turn. Not saying that Brazil is one of those.

I'd say one of two things is happening. Either these tour groups KNOW that they are being disruptive and they don't CARE or they don't care enough to learn about how to properly behave where they're going. You know there are plenty of Americans who travel abroad and fall into the two above categories. They're the ones who give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[StalkerX]

From the Disney Kid in me, I think this is good. They should be able to experience the magic at Disney. For some of them, it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity. If this makes it easier for them to do, then I'm for it.

From the adult, respective personality in me, I say this is awful. ONLY due to the fact that WDW does not really have and general rules set-up for certain types of behavior. As many have stated, if WDW can implement some sets of rules about the chanting, and the other annoying things, it would be fine.

I personally don't let it bother me any more. I'm sure others feel the same way, but we work hard and plan hard for these trips. I will personally not let these groups ruin my magic time.

Maybe it's about time they built a WDW in South America!

 

[Jing]

But it's not being Brazilian that's the problem. It's the fact that large groups of incredibly over-privileged but under-chaperoned 15 year olds are bound to behave badly. Extremely wealthy American teens don't tend to travel to foreign countries in packs without their parents. If they did, we'd have people in...say....Mallorca complaining "Can you believe what those American tour groups did on the beach?"

All teenagers have personality disorders, especially in large groups. They grow, we pain!

 

[neffernie]

All teenagers have personality disorders, especially in large groups.

Personally, I try to avoid all large groups of teenagers regarless of where they are from. Why? Because I know how I behaved when I was that age.

 

[hookedonears]

A tour group is a tour group, Brazilian has nothing to do with it. I'm sure you've heard people talk about the behavior of the Pop Warner and Cheer groups that run amok during their visits.

I like to keep in mind that it's not a type of people who cause problems in this world, rather it's individuals that make poor choices and choose to behave in unfortunate ways. Sometimes these people come together in groups. Which group or culture they are affiliated with has nothing to do with the problem.

For as many boorish cheerleaders or Brazilians you can think of, there are always members of those groups that have good manners and are considerate to others. Please remember that behavior is an individual choice and not classify it by groups....

Thanks,
Marlton Mom

From our experience going to WDW over the past 14 years, we've seen numerous tour groups. Some behaving themselves and others a little out of controll. The Brazilian tour groups, however were BY FAR the rudest and most obnoxious that we have ever encountered. From the cutting in lines to the obnoxious chanting and singling while waiting in line, we said we would never go back during the times of the year that their tour groups come.