Allure going, going, gone...

[pilferk]

Considering how small a cross-section of the DVC membership is on this board, I would argue that the masses are nowhere near as well informed as we are. The masses' knowledge of the DVC system is largely limited to what their guide and guidebook (i.e., Disney) tells them.

Again, it wouldn't surprise me to find out DIS DVC members are, by and large, more "in the know". I don't know that to be true, either, but it wouldn't surprise me. Keep in mind, though, the stuff we're talking about IS basically in the guidbook....we're talking about knowing how to efficiently use your membership and book during certain time tables.

Disney to most people is about the Parks. You may call that opinion anecdotal, but the parks are why WDW exists and why it continues to thrive. OKW and SSR have a market, of course, and Disney was right in building them. But to most of the mass of Disney visitors and DVC members, WDW is still ultimately about the parks and the resorts with the best access to the parks are still going to be the most desired by the masses.

No arguments there, other than that last line. There is a good sized contingent of people who DON'T need, or want, to be that close to the hustle and bustle. Evidence: Off site hotels thrive, off site timeshares thrive, etc. Disney fanatics (like those here, me included to some extent) seem to value that proximity a LOT. Trying to project that "need" to the membership as a whole? I'm not sure that's an apt projection. The question becomes: For the majority, what's "close enough"?

The trick is to make the non-park resorts equally desirable to the masses. Sure SSR has a devoted contingency, as all the resorts do, but it does not have that "must-stay" draw for most people (e.g., park access). DTD, the spa, and golf are not enough to overcome the draw of the parks for most people, it needs something more. I think (and yes this is opinion) that if you give the masses a choice between the non-park DVCs, OKW with the larger rooms and dirt cheap points beats SSR.

All in your opinion. The truth is SSR is a differnent sort of option, with differnt sorts of draws (I'd argue VERY good ones if you consider what one would expect the "types" of people who want to be more removed from the action would value) AND it's close to the parks. As close as BCV, BWV, or VWL? No. So what? Your OPINION is that SSR isn't "close enough" for most people. Fair enough. But without any sort of real evidence....I'll humbly disagree. I think it's "close enough" for the type of market it was built to cater to.

I think the newer rooms, walking distance to DTD (no boat), the world class spa, and other factors make it, at least, competitive for OKW. You don't..and that's fine. But what makes you think "the masses" share your opinion?

 

[OneMoreTry]

.... Very entertaining, and informational.

... but nothing new.




My intent is that the older threads included people, such as yourself, just as impassioned and just as intelligent as all of the good DVCers posting here.

If you please, wail away. I don't have my next DVD of 24 yet -- and it's a rerun, too. I just haven't seen it yet.

 

[kend58]

The OP made a valid point which I will paraphrase as "a large addition to the DVC system should have a compelling reason for people to stay at that resort"

You can argue till your blue in the face as to whether or not one DVC is better than another [FWIW I believe each has it's charms and deserves it's own loyal following] please go to the respective loyalty threads and crow all you want.

Because of the way the DVC system works for many people points are points i.e. plans change and they need to make reservations inside the 7 month window. In order for the system to keep availability at all the resorts each resort would have to have equal drawing power. DVC cannot by the nature of the contracts and Florida law do point balancing between the resorts {ie raise points at most over booked and lower at least} to bring balance so all they can do is make certain any large new set of "home resort owners" have a compelling reason to want to stay at their home and others will also want to stay there so everyone has a chance at trying all of the resorts and having somewhere to stay on their trip.

Look at the many owners with multiple home resorts "just to make sure they get to stay where they want" the giant pool of 7 month availability is just that a giant pool any small perception of advantage (i.e closer to a Theme park, SAB, WL Christmas decor, BW NYE party, Animals on the Savana) causes a feeding frenzy for the limited availability by the giant pool of owners.

DVC is taking (or at least attempting to take) action to help i.e. new waitlist policy, renting and transfer limitations, exercising ROFR to make points available form DVD at "sold-out" reorts. The disboard is taking action new Rental posting policy.

Stop bashing each over the head and think about your common good. What are the lessons learned from the most recent DVC expansions 1) Home resort is going to become more important as the system grows. 2) Not everyone is going to equally value every addition to the system. 3) DVC is no longer a secret and it is going to continue to grow as long as the economy stays strong.

When I look at the resorts this is what I see:

OKW - on property at WDW with large rooms and a laid back feeling
VB - Ocean front
HHI - Golf, Tennis, Ocean access
BC - on property with SAB and EPCOT access
WL - on property woodsy feeling and MK access
BW - on property with Night life and EPCOT / MGM access
SSR - SPA and Golf and DTD and easy bus system access
AK - animals and feature pool and DAK access

IMHO DVD is doing their job and giving the owners diversity in where they wish to own. If CRV is a reality (and I bet it is) the Mk via monorail or on foot and the views of the Lake and the castle are it's compelling features. They are delivering diverse vacation experiences each with compelling reasons to want to stay at the individual resorts - as owners you need to champion that not bash each other

 

[DisDaydreamer]

... but nothing new.




My intent is that the older threads included people, such as yourself, just as impassioned and just as intelligent as all of the good DVCers posting here.

If you please, wail away. I don't have my next DVD of 24 yet -- and it's a rerun, too. I just haven't seen it yet.

24

 

[Starr W.]

Because I wanted to go through Disney & not a resale company. SSR was the only resort DVC was selling at the time. Add on top of it how heavily they push that you never have to stay there if you don't want to.

I really had no choice.

Yes, you had another choice don't buy or you could have sighed and told your guide, "Thanks but we're really interested in BWV, so we'll pass" and get up to leave. Bet your guide would have pulling out that BWV inventory really fast(always worked for DD and DH at car dealerships).

The main thing I have learned about timeshares is an off shoot of what people say here"Buy where you want to stay, or more likely buy where you wouldn't mind staying."

We would like to get another timeshare to trade, but we are not going to buy something at a location we wouldn't want to go to every year, because that trade through II or RCI might not go through and you're stuck going or renting it out.

 

[eporter66]

Of course, having recently stayed at Saratoga Springs, I don't want to stay there again and I think this feeling is shared by most who own there and they are flocking to the other resorts filling them up even in the periods of low vacancy.

I think DVC made a strategic error with with SSR. The combination of a huge number of rooms and sub-par* facilities/location is driving huge amount of traffic to the other resorts effectively crowding them out and adversely affecting the availability. Unless SSR becomes a destination resort such as BCV or WLV, this will continue to be the case. Imagine the difference if SSR sported a pool such as Stormalong Bay or a location such as VWL (nature setting or proximity to MK) and families with kids actually flocked there.


*I do not mean to offend anyone and my term of 'sub-par' reflect the needs and desires of a parent with 3 kids (namely close proximity to pools, an incredbile aquatic facility, and proximity to parks that does not require hopping in the car everyday). Being that Disney is centered around famlies with kids, I feel that this should be a priority and therefore cannot explain the lack of a spectacular pool or other amenity at SSR that would 'wow' families.

I guess I will never understand this way of thinking? I am sure Disney developed SSR because there was a demand for more vacation club resorts on property. Since SSR they have added the AKV and apparently the Contemporary will have some DVC rooms or a building.

You are in WDW, how can there be that much of an inconvience? We have a three year old and have stayed at SSR with her twice. We are thrilled that we can afford to be members and provide our family with a quality, fun filled vacation. I stayed at BWV last year, and yes it was great to be so close to Epcot, and then hop the monorail and go to MK. But, overall the fact that I am staying on Disney property in what I consider to be a very comfortable room (we usually get the 1 Bedroom), I just cant understand complaining about it.

I do understand the advantage BWV & BC have being so close, but now you will have WLV & Contemporary with rooms closer to MK, and AKV having closeness to the Animal Kingdom.

Sorry, but I see nothing subpar with SSR. I love the resort, and I see the advantage as having nice pools, being close to DTD for dinner and some extra nightlife, and a relaxing, peaceful and beautiful landscaped resort at SSR.

To each his own. I plan to stay at all the DVC resorts one day with my membership, but I cant understand how people continue to complain when they are staying at an upscale resort in WDW.

E

 

[MissMet]

Yes, you had another choice don't buy or you could have sighed and told your guide, "Thanks but we're really interested in BWV, so we'll pass" and get up to leave. Bet your guide would have pulling out that BWV inventory really fast(always worked for DD and DH at car dealerships).

The main thing I have learned about timeshares is an off shoot of what people say here"Buy where you want to stay, or more likely buy where you wouldn't mind staying."

We would like to get another timeshare to trade, but we are not going to buy something at a location we wouldn't want to go to every year, because that trade through II or RCI might not go through and you're stuck going or renting it out.

You have to understand what you're saying does makes sense to you & everyone else on the boards now, but when you're walking in knowing only the bare minimums & the guide talk & talks about how you can stay anywhere, it makes no sense to pay more for another home resort or push them to not charge you so much for the other resort.

Besides, I don't think they would have given me BWV as low as they offered SSR. The demand for BWV add-ons are too high, add on the fact that people are willing to pay more for BWV add-ons.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...Besides, I don't think they would have given me BWV as low as they offered SSR. The demand for BWV add-ons are too high, add on the fact that people are willing to pay more for BWV add-ons.

No, they wouldn't have given you the same discounts that they offered on the new resort. You would have paid the going rate for BWV without any discount or additional points for one time use. That's what anyone pays if the resort is technically sold out by Disney (they only have repurchased points to sell).

 

[MissMet]

No, they wouldn't have given you the same discounts that they offered on the new resort. You would have paid the going rate for BWV without any discount or additional points for one time use. That's what anyone pays if the resort is technically sold out by Disney (they only have repurchased points to sell).

Exactly what I was saying. That's why i didn't buy into BWV. Now looking back I think the extra expense would have been worth it. That's why I did an AKV add-on instead of the cheaper SSR add-on, in case I really enjoy AKV I will have the 11 month window.

 

[Starr W.]

You have to understand what you're saying does makes sense to you & everyone else on the boards now, but when you're walking in knowing only the bare minimums & the guide talk & talks about how you can stay anywhere, it makes no sense to pay more for another home resort or push them to not charge you so much for the other resort.

Besides, I don't think they would have given me BWV as low as they offered SSR. The demand for BWV add-ons are too high, add on the fact that people are willing to pay more for BWV add-ons.

Don't know what the BWV price is from Disney, but no it wouldn't have been at the price of SSR(I really applaud some of the members who keep track of the pricing ). Did you buy right on the spot?

Guess my guide was a little less full of BS(he's the one who alerted me to F&W time when we did the tour). His number one statement was the whole system doesn't work well if you can't plan 11-7 months out. He really really stressed that, with the fact that DVC is going to be getting bigger, home resort priority will be more important and being able to get on the phone at 9am at your 7 month window still might not get you BCV/BWV for F&W.

 

[MissMet]

Don't know what the BWV price is from Disney, but no it wouldn't have been at the price of SSR(I really applaud some of the members who keep track of the pricing ). Did you buy right on the spot?

I know BWV now is $98 but then I think it was $96 & I got SSR for $89. No, I didn't buy right on the spot. It actually took me three years to buy. I knew about resale when I bought, but I wanted to go through Disney. My parents were DVC members & they didn't have a problem booking before SSR, not blaming SSR just stating, so I didn't forsee it a problem. Plus, I didn't know about DIS to talk with other members & hear their input.

 

[Anthony1971]

These threads have become funny.

less than 35 years from today this problem will be resolved.

If you do not understand the system or can not work with the system than DVC is not for you. If you need to stay at your home resort than you have an amazing chance of getting the room you want at the 11 month window up to the 7 months and 1 day out. If the room is not available it is other owners of that resort that booked it. If you book past this than SSR works to your advantage as it added a lot more rooms and chances of you getting a room at Dinsey with short notice most times of the year.

 

[rinkwide]

...If you book past (7 months) than SSR works to your advantage as it added a lot more rooms and chances of you getting a room at Dinsey with short notice most times of the year.

And don't forget that SSR also works to the advantage of those who over-book the Values during free dining.

 

[castleri]

Exactly what I was saying. That's why i didn't buy into BWV. Now looking back I think the extra expense would have been worth it. That's why I did an AKV add-on instead of the cheaper SSR add-on, in case I really enjoy AKV I will have the 11 month window.

Just curious - you love BW - why did you not add on there instead of at AKV which you don't know if you will like?

 

[MissMet]

Just curious - you love BW - why did you not add on there instead of at AKV which you don't know if you will like?

Because, I felt that I would very much enjoy AKV, plus the opening of the AKV should (hopefully) only make it easier to book a stay at BWV, but then AKV would be impossible to get a reservation, especially the MUCH desired concierge & savanna rooms. As much as I absolutely adore BWV, AKV is the only one that offers concierge. Also, AKV were still cheaper than BWV through Disney. I may one day add on BWV by resale, but for the time being I only want to work through Disney.

 

[BroganMc]

plus the opening of the AKV should (hopefully) only make it easier to book a stay at BWV

I wouldn't count on that at all. AKV adds even more members to the system and has even poorer off-resort access than SSR. It'll capture a segment of devotees, but I'm guessing even more will be looking to stay elsewhere once they have a AKV stay under their belt. Keep in mind, you can't go anywhere outside AKV without a bus or car. Not even nearby Animal Kingdom, and that closes at 5pm.

Like it or not, I think the only thing that will "relieve" the demand at BWV, BCV and VWL is a future CRV. I fully expect SSR to get much harder to book in a year or two. That's why I've gotten used to the "plan at 11 months" routine. Practice makes perfect.

 

[BroganMc]

So I'm catching up on the posts of this thread for today... (why? I guess I'm one of those "heavy hitters" or just a sadomasochistic DISer like the rest), and I find these gems:

Disney to most people is about the Parks. You may call that opinion anecdotal, but the parks are why WDW exists and why it continues to thrive.

True at first, I think UConn. That is invariably why most people set out to visit DisneyWorld the first time. It's all those shots of Cinderella's Castle and chitchat from neighbors about their daring-do riding Tower of Terror. So they price out the resort packages, go for a Value if they are budget seekers or Deluxes if they aren't. (Perhaps one can argue there's a difference between Deluxe monorail resort guests having more kids drawing them to MK and EPCOT resort area guests being more adult and into culture.) Anyhoo, they come to WDW, traverse the maze of park ticket options, get their guidebooks and plan everyday around which ride to catch.

Then there are those who stay offsite at a timeshare so for them anything on Disney property is "close" to the rides. But then those same guests get into resort enjoyment and the shift from parks to resort becomes more like this:

We were sitting in the airport & had our DVC tote filled with a TON of paperwork. There was an older couple sitting across from us & noticed the tote. They told us how they were DVC members & that they don't really go into the parks, just Epcot for the food. The husband went on to say how much they loved golf. They said they have there family come visit & they cook in the room & hang out in the pool. Then on some days their kids take the grandchildren to the parks. They really just enjoyed staying at the resort & maybe venturing out to Orlando.

At first I was baffled by this. Why would someone buy into DVC & not go to the parks, but then it made sense. All the other resorts around the world you can stay at, add on top of that there love of a resort to relax at & play golf & it made sense.

Now for me and my family, it's first and foremost all about being in Orlando. See that's as "close" as we need to be to a Disney park. But lately, I've discovered the simple joy of just being at the resort. I guess you can say I've just had my fill of the parks. I love them, true, but find them amazingly identical to what I've seen dozens of times before. So now it's not "new" but far more crowded. That feeling of "been there, done that, not relaxing" was so strong my last trip I found myself happily passing up a park day for yet another "chill at the resort" day.

And isn't that inevitably what DVC gives its members? So much opportunity to enjoy Disney that we find ourselves drifting away from the addiction to the rides?

I can understand those who balk at OKW and SSR's spread out nature. I can understand the thrill of rolling out of bed and into EPCOT. But what I don't understand is this presumption that all DVC will ever be about to members is being a park commando.

(And yes, all props go to OKW owners who I see have gained that DVC maturity long ago. Probably why their pool parties are some of the best on property.)

 

[Pootle]

....... I guess you can say I've just had my fill of the parks. I love them, true, but find them amazingly identical to what I've seen dozens of times before. So now it's not "new" but far more crowded. That feeling of "been there, done that, not relaxing" was so strong my last trip I found myself happily passing up a park day for yet another "chill at the resort" day.

And isn't that inevitably what DVC gives its members? So much opportunity to enjoy Disney that we find ourselves drifting away from the addiction to the rides?

I can understand those who balk at OKW and SSR's spread out nature. I can understand the thrill of rolling out of bed and into EPCOT. But what I don't understand is this presumption that all DVC will ever be about to members is being a park commando.
....

Amen to these sentiments exactly - I agree with every word

People change. I was once a park commando but back then I didn't care where I stayed so long as it was clean, cheap and convenient.

Most of my points are at my two personal pieces of vacation heaven - OKW and VB, but then I bought just 30 points at BWV thinking I'd enjoy a BW view studio once every 2 or 3 years.

Do you know, it's been a real effort to use those BWV points .

 

[Mississippian]

I wouldn't count on that at all. AKV adds even more members to the system and has even poorer off-resort access than SSR. It'll capture a segment of devotees, but I'm guessing even more will be looking to stay elsewhere once they have a AKV stay under their belt. Keep in mind, you can't go anywhere outside AKV without a bus or car. Not even nearby Animal Kingdom, and that closes at 5pm.

Like it or not, I think the only thing that will "relieve" the demand at BWV, BCV and VWL is a future CRV. I fully expect SSR to get much harder to book in a year or two. That's why I've gotten used to the "plan at 11 months" routine. Practice makes perfect.

BroganMc,

I fully expect AKV to be pretty popular, although it might be a bit too large. My personal opinion is that SSR is the one that will have the excess vacancies forever. Here's why:

1. The animals are really neat to see, and you can see then from right there in your resort, which is important. Most people enjoy seeing this more than once. I do think split stays will be popular.

2. Visitors to AKV will have on-site fine dining options, which is important.

3. Visitors to AKV are going to be able to walk down in the morning and get a newspaper with relative ease. It ruins a vacation not to be able to do this.

I do agree the AKV location is the pits, but the animal angle is likely to keep people coming back more than once. This resort will sell quickly and have far fewer complaints from the EPCOT/MK members than SSR has had.

Make no mistake, MOST people hate, despise and loathe buses; so any DVC which doesn't include the option of either walking to the parks or a super-quick bus, boat or monorail ride is going to be greeted with a certain amount of dread by those of us who have a walking-distance home resort. With that said, I don't think AKV is going to rouse the feelings of "we've been cheated" that SSR has caused. The size is more reasonable, the amenities are better, and it's just a place where the average DVC member would be more willing to stay, either by choice or because it was all that was available. (I personally do not expect the easy availability everyone else seems to forcast for a year or two.)

On a personal level, I'm looking forward to staying a few days at AKV. Who knows, I might even buy a few points.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Ah, but when the bus pulls up at Kidani Village, after having stopped at Jambo House and it's full already......

You have the Epcot resort bus scenerio. Two large deluxe resorts sharing the same bus.

SSR is an easy walk over to DTD and there is nothing more frustrating than trying to find a parking place over by the Marketplace in the afternoon. It's definitely doable, but not that easy most times. Especially around the holiday times.

I still say, what's nice about DVC is that it has something for everyone.