You opinions on ads that say "Firm" after a price.

[mj70148]

No, I'm saying that at that point the respectful thing to do is to walk away from the deal. They've said they can't go lower, they've even explained its would be a financial hardship for them to go lower. At that point, you applied pressure to a situation that already had a lot of pressure on it by offering less than what they already said was their floor post inspection. So, did you not believe them that that was their floor? Did you not believe them that they were already underwater? Or did you hope in their emotional state of "we sold our house" that they'd feel backed into a corner and change their mind?

The first two does not respect what they told you. The third takes advantage of their misfortune.

Not really. It gives them the choice on if it woudl be a worse financial hardship for them to go to a lower price or to take the risk of having to go back on the market (which looks bad when a house goes back on the market right after the inspection), find another buyer, and that those people will be willing to pay more even though they will now need to be told of whatever was found at that first inspection.
If I was the seller I would realize that this would probably be an even bigger financial burden (if your underwater and need to sell your probably trying to avoid going into foreclosure and that is probably where you would be heading at that point)

which is exactly what happened to us. they would lose more money by waiting for it to sell and go through due diligence again than to just come down in price for us. it would have been a terrible shame if we just chose to walk away out of "respect" for their financial situation instead of simply throwing it out there to just see what they'd say at a lower price - again, they could have said no, and we would have walked away. simple. there's no disrespect. i don't get pure joy out of knowing they are having financial trouble - but that SHOULD NOT be a determination on MY offers as a buyer.

 

[SEA333]

↑
No, I'm saying that at that point the respectful thing to do is to walk away from the deal. They've said they can't go lower, they've even explained its would be a financial hardship for them to go lower. At that point, you applied pressure to a situation that already had a lot of pressure on it by offering less than what they already said was their floor post inspection. So, did you not believe them that that was their floor? Did you not believe them that they were already underwater? Or did you hope in their emotional state of "we sold our house" that they'd feel backed into a corner and change their mind?

The first two does not respect what they told you. The third takes advantage of their misfortune.
↑
Not really. It gives them the choice on if it woudl be a worse financial hardship for them to go to a lower price or to take the risk of having to go back on the market (which looks bad when a house goes back on the market right after the inspection), find another buyer, and that those people will be willing to pay more even though they will now need to be told of whatever was found at that first inspection.
If I was the seller I would realize that this would probably be an even bigger financial burden (if your underwater and need to sell your probably trying to avoid going into foreclosure and that is probably where you would be heading at that point)

which is exactly what happened to us. they would lose more money by waiting for it to sell and go through due diligence again than to just come down in price for us. it would have been a terrible shame if we just chose to walk away out of "respect" for their financial situation instead of simply throwing it out there to just see what they'd say at a lower price - again, they could have said no, and we would have walked away. simple. there's no disrespect. i don't get pure joy out of knowing they are having financial trouble - but that SHOULD NOT be a determination on MY offers as a buyer.

You all are putting way too much emotion into a financial transaction.

Crisi, I would bet a million dollars that the next time the "underwater" sellers go to buy a house, they are going to try as hard as they can to find a deal that gives them the house of their dreams for less than the "firm" price, too. Even though it happened to them, it will not stop them, if they are smart, from negotiating the best possible deal they can...and anyone that has bought a house before (or watches HGTV) knows that something that turns up bad in an inspection is immediate cause for the buyer to ask for a concession - either in price or in a credit for repairs (or to mandate that the repair is taken care of before closing). It is 99.0% of the time a condition of the offer. There is NOTHING immoral about this whatsoever. The OP did nothing wrong - a person can OFFER whatever sum they are willing to pay, or amend, or pull out altogether on an offer if any of the conditions of the offer are not satisfactorily met.

We listed our very first house 20 years ago for $99,500, needing EVERY single penny of it for our 2nd house. The first offer that came in was for $89,000. We turned it down. We never took it personally. The 2nd offer was for $98,500, on condition of a home inspection. After the home inspection we got a list of things that they wanted us to "fix" (like adding a closet to the study to make it a 3rd bedroom - it had a makeshift closet in it). Both of us at that point were free to make a choice whether to walk away from the offer or for us to accept the conditions and move forward. We opted to move forward and add the stupid closet and correct the other issues. It was a financial setback for us, but that wasn't the buyer's problem. We never thought they were "out to get us' or take advantage of the fact that we needed every penny for the new house. We reviewed our finances in PRIVATE and decided what to do.

I think that the biggest problem these days is that everyone is so open with their problems and expect sympathy. Finances and sympathy don't really go together. JMO.

ETA: As for the original question about the car, I probably would not waste MY time offering less than the "firm" price just because I figure that if they went through the trouble of writing firm on the ad, they probably will decline my offer. I belong to an online buy/sell site, and when people write FIRM, I have usually noticed that the item seems overpriced to me and I usually pass. Occasionally I will track a "firm" item, and they never seem to sell well. I've even seen it come down in price or be re-listed at a lower price later. My friend will do this a lot with her items and then she wonders why things don't sell. Her reasoning is that she doesn't want to deal with people trying to get a lower price all the time so if she writes "firm" on the post, people won't try to ask for money off. But is one of her friends really wanted it and only had $10 to spend, she would give it to them in a heartbeat.

Bottom line is...EVERYTHING is negotiable no matter how firm the seller says the price is. It never hurts to ask. But be prepared for a no if the timing is not right.

 

[tvguy]

So, TV Guy, did you make that offer yet?

I wouldn't worry one whit about the word firm being used. People throw that word around all the time.

If they didn't want to sell, they wouldn't have put a sign out.

They may want to get top dollar, but it's a 10 year old car. Yes, mileage is low, and it will stay low so long as they keep the sign on it and don't sell.

My son bought a car recently with 2900 miles on it. It was a 2010. Bottom line was he could get a good deal on this one or buy a newer car. We were able to get the price dropped substantially because the 'year' couldn't compete with newer cars, even though the mileage was low.

No offer. Love to have that car but my family says I am only allowed to buy a 1965 or 1966 Mustang. And several of the Mustangs I have looked at are listed with firm prices, which is what prompted my post. But the NADA price spread on those can be from $2,000 to $1,000,000 ! I just happened to walk down and look at this Lincoln because I have seen it for months in the driveway with a for sale sign and saw "firm" by the price, so I looked it up in KBB and NADA. Heck, even Carmax, which in notorious for being $2,000 over KBB only wants $11,900 for the 2005 Lincoln they have on their lot.
I am just trying to get a feel for how to approach negotiations if a Mustang I want to buy is one for sale with a "firm" price. Is firm just part of the negotiating game? That's what I'm trying to sort out. With a new car at a dealer, I know they can come down thousands and still make a profit. Used cars, especially classic ones, pricing more fluid.

 

[Judique]

Its been "firm" for over six months - if he wanted to sell, he would have lowered his price by now. There is a reason its for sale, but its not because he needs to sell the car - and maybe even doesn't want to sell the car.

(My own guess, Grandparent died, and he has a fifteen year old kid and a sibling. He's promised the sibling to try to sell the car - but if it doesn't sell, little Logan can have it when he gets his license - he's keeping to the letter of the agreement with his sibling. Or it could be like my grandmother's townhouse. One sibling had unrealistic expectations about the value of it in a down market - and it took two years for the market to rebound for him to get the price he wanted - he was definitely "firm" and all the siblings had to agree.).

From reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you have a conservative nature.

You have NO IDEA what is going on with the owner or the car. None. Nada. Zip.

And, you can write anything here that you want, but it still doesn't change the fact you don't know.

What you know is what you would do or feel.

If I were interested in the car, I would make inquiries and possibly an offer.

You, on the other hand, if you had interest in the car, would either pay full price or decide it was too expensive and forget about it.

Just because someone wrote a four letter word.

I'm guessing sales was never your career choice.

 

[mj70148]

I think that the biggest problem these days is that everyone is so open with their problems and expect sympathy. Finances and sympathy don't really go together. JMO.

Bottom line is...EVERYTHING is negotiable no matter how firm the seller says the price is. It never hurts to ask. But be prepared for a no if the timing is not right.

Exactly everything you said, x1000. I am never great with words or explaining myself. Glad someone understands me! haha!

 

[crisi]

From reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you have a conservative nature.

You have NO IDEA what is going on with the owner or the car. None. Nada. Zip.

And, you can write anything here that you want, but it still doesn't change the fact you don't know.

What you know is what you would do or feel.

If I were interested in the car, I would make inquiries and possibly an offer.

You, on the other hand, if you had interest in the car, would either pay full price or decide it was too expensive and forget about it.

Just because someone wrote a four letter word.

I'm guessing sales was never your career choice.

I've done sales, I'm good at it, but hate it. And I'm a flaming liberal. I am VERY financially conservative though.

My problem is not what I would do when wanting to buy the car, its what others would do if I were selling the car with "firm" on my price and they chose not to respect that. Either you don't believe me or think I'm playing some sort(disrespectful), you want a better deal than what I am offering and are willing to waste my time making me an offer below my firm price (disrespectful of my time), or you don't know what English words mean.

If some people are lying because they use the word firm to mean something other than firm, you shouldn't punish the ethical people for telling you what their minimum price is. That's like saying because some girls say no when they mean yes, its ok to pressure other girls into sex.

 

[sksjasams]

If some people are lying because they use the word firm to mean something other than firm, you shouldn't punish the ethical people for telling you what their minimum price is. That's like saying because some girls say no when they mean yes, its ok to pressure other girls into sex.

Are you kidding me? That is a terrible analogy, and not the same thing AT ALL.

 

[Judique]

I've done sales, I'm good at it, but hate it. And I'm a flaming liberal. I am VERY financially conservative though.

My problem is not what I would do when wanting to buy the car, its what others would do if I were selling the car with "firm" on my price and they chose not to respect that. Either you don't believe me or think I'm playing some sort(disrespectful), you want a better deal than what I am offering and are willing to waste my time making me an offer below my firm price (disrespectful of my time), or you don't know what English words mean.

If some people are lying because they use the word firm to mean something other than firm, you shouldn't punish the ethical people for telling you what their minimum price is. That's like saying because some girls say no when they mean yes, its ok to pressure other girls into sex.

So you are that one in a million person that would just let the sale go out the door without any kind of negotiation.

Just because a person uses 'firm' doesn't mean they are lying.

Putting something up for sale means you are going to spend some time, sorting through the possibly interested people.

People who are interested but not willing to pay full price are NOT trying to be disrespectful.

EVERYBODY wants top dollar and usually everyone thinks their item deserves it.

It is not a question about whether someone believes you.

It is possible to respectfully offer a lower price.

And it's a car deal - that fact just shouts negotiation.

(Your last comparison should be deleted. It's pretty off base.)

 

[jedijill]

Please do not go by NADA for a classic Mustang. It has absolutely no bearing on the car's value. For a Mustang you need to look at the condition the car is in, and what model it is. If you have a basic coupe with a 200 or 289 in good shape (no rust) and running, I would pay around $3500-5000 depending on condition. Fastbacks and Convertibles are worth quite a bit more. There is a good calculator at Hagerty.com. There are different levels of restoration too. I would also keep in mind what you want to final condition to be. I bought a 66 convertible (200) for $5300 that didn't have rust but needed metal/paint and it didn't run. I've put about 20K into it and now its worth $25-30K for a very nice daily driver. You will find that people have deep emotional attachment to classic cars as opposed to regular used cars. Good luck on finding the Mustang. They are great cars, easy to work on, and the parts are plentiful.

Jill in CO

 

[Sagginit]

Are you kidding me? That is a terrible analogy, and not the same thing AT ALL.

I don't mean to throw fuel on the fire but this is kinda ironic, because I have been on here for years and rarely get offended. The one time I got seriously offended when during a conversation about coupons the same person used a nasty rape analogy to tell me I was wrong.

Some people think its wrong to offer below the firm price, other people think its wrong to compare financial transactions to rape. Take it with a grain of salt, some people are on here to shock others.

Back to the car.... I was selling a car and did not list it as firm, but listed it slighly above what I wanted knowing people would negotiate. I had people offer me about 80% less than listed price. That was a waste of time. I ended up selling it to a neighbor's relative who saw the sign in the car window vs all the people on craigslist. I think it would be fine to call and say you drove by all the time and noticed it had been for sale for months... but wanted to inquire about how they came up with the price as you were interested but comps in the area were lower. That is a way to start the conversation and get a feel for their willingness to negotiate, versus outright tell them their price is wrong and start the relationship with a low offer. Selling and negotiating can sometimes go better when you start off on the right foot.

 

[mrsklamc]

There was a great story that I saw posted here a few times, though it's been awhile. Someone was having a garage sale and an obnoxious person insisted on haggling so the seller held the glass item over the driveway and shattered it rather than selling it to them. That's my reaction if I said "firm" and you try to haggle- I'm then not selling to you at any price.

 

[mj70148]

There was a great story that I saw posted here a few times, though it's been awhile. Someone was having a garage sale and an obnoxious person insisted on haggling so the seller held the glass item over the driveway and shattered it rather than selling it to them. That's my reaction if I said "firm" and you try to haggle- I'm then not selling to you at any price.

great story. and that's fine - if i want to haggle and you don't, and get so offended that you break the item instead of sell it to me - that's the moment where i'd laugh hysterically! Who would get THAT mad over someone wanting to haggle? just say No and ask them to leave! no need to get so mad you break things! you can think i'm obnoxious or disrespectful, that's fine. to think someone would get so upset they break the item in question... talk about needing to visit the looney bin! i'm learning that those folks who say Firm (and mean it) are so offended by an alternate offer!! Wow guys! it really isn't worth getting upset over! Maybe be irritated at the other sellers who say Firm but actually are negotiable -- those are the people who have allowed people like ME to believe that Firm isn't a huge STOP sign for negotiating!

(@mrsklamc , my post is not only directed at you!)

 

[ArmchairDetective]

While I believe we all understand the definition of Firm, most of us understand that anything is negotiable. I have purchased items on Craigslist listed as "Firm" for a lower price than stated because I asked.

Financial decisions should never be based on emotion. If someone gives away the farm because they feel pressured, are worried, or are anxious then they've allowed their emotions to get the best of them.

A simple no from the seller suffices.

Also, rape analogies? Disgusting.

 

[mrsklamc]

Needing to visit the looney bin? Gosh I've not been around here in awhile but personal attacks used to be against the rules. I would not break the item in question but if I said "firm" and you are rude and disrepectful enough to ignore that I'm not selling to you. If I were willing to negotiate I would not have used the word "firm."

Now of course negotiating is not the same thing as rape- but you can be outraged all you want at Crisi, you are fooling yourself if you think a young man has NEVER unwittingly turned to sexual harrassment or yes, possibly even rape, because he was taught the mindset that "Everything is negotiatiable." Because what you are really saying in the end is, "No never really means NO."

 

[Lewisc]

The OP is asking about a car for sale for around 15K, price firm. He thinks the car is only worth around 10K. He then says he has no interest in the car. I don't understand why he cares.

I wouldn't waste my time, or the sellers time, if the price is listed as firm and I think the item is overpriced by 50%. Firm might leave a little room for negotiation. A small discount for an instant cash sale. I don't know if I'd use the term "disrespect" but I guess that's as good as any way to describe it.

A car with exceptionally low mileage is worth far more then book values. I'll agree with the poster who thinks the owner may have a friend or relative who will get the car for free, or a reduced price, if the seller can't get is firm price.

 

[Pooh2]

If an ad listed a price as being "firm" I take that as meaning no negotiation.
If the price was not acceptable to me as is, I would probably keep looking elsewhere rather than take my time and the sellers to look a the item and low-ball.

 

[BCV2003]

My husband isn't one to haggle. If he was selling the car and listed the price as Firm, he would have the car priced accordingly and be serious about it. Firm to me does not equal negotiable. If someone doesn't like the price, they move on. Conversely, if he was looking for a car and someone had it listed as Firm and he didn't like the price or disagree with the price, he would laugh to himself and move on. It may not be a good price to you but it is the price that the person has agreed to be willing to part with it at. To me Firm means Firm, No means No.

 

[KingofJapan]

If an ad listed a price as being "firm" I take that as meaning no negotiation.
If the price was not acceptable to me as is, I would probably keep looking elsewhere rather than take my time and the sellers to look a the item and low-ball.

what do they not understand about firm. If it's been on the market for a while then who cares. Just leave. That's why I refuse to do garage sales. No matter what you are selling the item for, there are always those people who will offer you pennies on the dollar on what you are asking. Gave my neighbor a big bag of baby newborn clothing (not cheap stuff) for his garage sale. Told him he can sell each outfit for a dollar. A lot of the outfits were not even worn with the tags still on. Neighbor calls me over and said someone wants to buy the whole bag (about 40 outfits). I go over and expect an offer like 20 but they offer me $5.00. Said I would rather give it away than sell it to them for $5 which is what I did.

 

[pryncess527]

Add me to the camp of people who mean Firm if they say Firm.

I was trying to sell an almost new Macbook Pro on Craigslist a few years ago. I, admittedly, was not really committed to selling it, and i set the price high (only slightly below retail), because if I could not recover X amount, then I'd just rather have the laptop. I knew I was unlikely to sell it at my price, but I gave it a shot. It was annoying how many people took it upon themselves to email me an offer, and then when I gave them a simple "No", came back to me with nasty emails telling me I'm an idiot for setting the price I chose, that I better take their offer, blah blah blah.

I wasn't about to break the Macbook over it, but it did really annoy me that complete strangers felt compelled to argue with me and try to strongarm me into lowering my price when I had been very clear that I was not going any lower.

 

[mj70148]

Needing to visit the looney bin? Gosh I've not been around here in awhile but personal attacks used to be against the rules

hope you didn't think that was a personal attack, because that wasn't toward you - it was an expression used instead of simply saying 'that's/they're crazy'. sorry to imply anything different!