Yelling - is it child abuse?

[pahoben]

Sigh? Very insightful and informative. Definitely inclines me to be intimidated into accepting information from the source because it's an indicator they must seriously mean it and I must be too dim to understand.

Actually I was responding to your comments regarding what someone else learned in grad school being incorrect and your frequent anecdotal citations of how things with your fraternal twins bear out scientific data you suggest supports ideas you agree with. Smart scientists understand that it's common for data to suggest strong support for an idea -- while recognizing that it may be valid and correct data and simultaneously not be the global answer it appears at first blush.

Research has been conducted since the 70’s and with twins at that time both fraternal and identical that providing an avenue to study genetics and behavior (sorry about my reference to my twins and I just wanted to supply observations that many people do not have since they do not have twins-my mistake) and those studies found links between genes and behavior. Now we have available large genetic genetic data bases ( FTDNA 23 andMe etc). to test this in a different way. These analyses
Have supported the twin studies and have even located specific genes that correlate with personality traits. It isn’t that I thought you couldn’t understand but this is a topic that some people have deep beliefs about and will never ever change their beliefs.

 

[Kellykins1218]

No, but I also don't think it's appropriate for a stepparent to be yelling at or disciplining a child that isn't theirs.

 

[amberpi]

No, but I also don't think it's appropriate for a stepparent to be yelling at or disciplining a child that isn't theirs.

That was very hurtful.

 

[Floridaman999]

Oh, wow. That came out of left field for sure.

 

[Skellingtonj]

No, but I also don't think it's appropriate for a stepparent to be yelling at or disciplining a child that isn't theirs.

Wait what? Where did this come from? How is that even relevant? I have so many questions

 

[luvsJack]

No, but I also don't think it's appropriate for a stepparent to be yelling at or disciplining a child that isn't theirs.

So she should just let the child fall and get hurt because she isn’t the bio parent and dad isn’t home?

Your remark is uncalled for, hurtful to the op and completely wrong in many ways.

She obviously cares very much for her step kids and is helping to raise them. She wants to do things right by these kids and she loves them. She is a PARENT.

My dh raised my sons. Technically he is their step dad but he couldn’t have been more of a “real” dad. He loves them and they still have a great relationship. He also disciplined them, yes even yelling a time or two.

How dare you disrespect the job that he, the op and many step parents do raising kids. There is no more a truer parent than one that chooses to love a child that is not their own.

 

[Keli]

No, I don't think yelling is child abuse.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

If the stepparent is sharing in the other responsibilities of parenting, they should be able to do as they see fit, so long as all parties are agreeable to the methods used.

 

[GreatLakes]

If the stepparent is sharing in the other responsibilities of parenting, they should be able to do as they see fit, so long as all parties are agreeable to the methods used.

I agree with this. A stepparent of a young kid, assuming they are helping raise them with the biological parent they are with, should be a part of raising the child just like the biological parent and that includes discipline.

 

[cabanafrau]

Research has been conducted since the 70’s and with twins at that time both fraternal and identical that providing an avenue to study genetics and behavior (sorry about my reference to my twins and I just wanted to supply observations that many people do not have since they do not have twins-my mistake) and those studies found links between genes and behavior. Now we have available large genetic genetic data bases ( FTDNA 23 andMe etc). to test this in a different way. These analyses
Have supported the twin studies and have even located specific genes that correlate with personality traits. It isn’t that I thought you couldn’t understand but this is a topic that some people have deep beliefs about and will never ever change their beliefs.

Are you suggesting that the ancestral DNA databases are being utilized for, or even contain the appropriate data to make correlations between genetics and behavior? If I didn't understand that DNA examinations are done in a variety of ways that focus on specific locus on the chain to obtain different information for different purposes I might find that idea more believable. I doubt the necessary information is part of the ancestry analysis because analysts narrow their focus to the locations that will answer the specific questions they are seeking to answer in order to limit the computation involved and improve the accuracy of the statistical results in the area they are focused on.

If I'm playing woodwinds in an orchestra I'm focused on that part of the arrangement involving woodwinds and may not be able to give you a lot of insight into what's happening with the percussionists and shouldn't be expected to take my sheet music over and pick up the cymbals and play something satisfying for the audience. Probably not the greatest analogy, but helps explain what I'm trying to get at.

 

[DLgal]

Yelling is not discipline though. I work in school setting & sometimes am responsible for developing behavior intervention plans for students who need them. The plans never include yelling b/c it’s not effective discipline.

Thank you. My son has a behavior intervention plan and if ANY part of that included teachers or aides yelling at him, I would sue the school district.

FWIW, the BIP is in place due to self harming behaviors. He has anxiety and perfectionism and cries and hits himself and disrupts the class. The plan is to help eliminate these outbursts. Yelling would do nothing but escalate the situation.

 

[pahoben]

Are you suggesting that the ancestral DNA databases are being utilized for, or even contain the appropriate data to make correlations between genetics and behavior? If I didn't understand that DNA examinations are done in a variety of ways that focus on specific locus on the chain to obtain different information for different purposes I might find that idea more believable. I doubt the necessary information is part of the ancestry analysis because analysts narrow their focus to the locations that will answer the specific questions they are seeking to answer in order to limit the computation involved and improve the accuracy of the statistical results in the area they are focused on.

If I'm playing woodwinds in an orchestra I'm focused on that part of the arrangement involving woodwinds and may not be able to give you a lot of insight into what's happening with the percussionists and shouldn't be expected to take my sheet music over and pick up the cymbals and play something satisfying for the audience. Probably not the greatest analogy, but helps explain what I'm trying to get at.

I understand and thank you for explaining.

 

[pahoben]

I understand and thank you for explaining.

Sorry also yes up to and including full genome. These aren’t databases associated with some heritable disease but very large sequencing up to and including the entire genome.

 

[wenrob]

No, but I also don't think it's appropriate for a stepparent to be yelling at or disciplining a child that isn't theirs.

Do you have any experience step parenting a child or as a step child? By this post, I’m going to guess no.

I’ve been a step child all my life. The people who married my bio parents are as much my parents as the ones who contributed to my gene pool. They helped raise me, they certainly had a right to dole out discipline that usually was in my best interest. Parents in general discipline because they want to raise upstanding, functioning members of society. The drive to do that comes from loving a kid and wanting what’s best for them.

I think it’s admirable that amberpi comes and asks questions when she’s not sure. She knows she risks the tide turning on her but she asks anyway because she cares and like any mom worries if she’s doing it right. (none of us are but we’re doing our best and that’s what counts) Hopefully she doesn’t let an uncalled for and unkind ‘drop in’ shake her confidence.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Children are different when they are born. Optimum rearing practices should be based on these natural differences between children rather than assuming they are all the same and forcing a one size fits all approach.

...As far as I know, that’s still a classic debate. My opinion is it’s both. I also think we think we treat our kids equally, but there can be subtle differences that shape who they are that makes it appear that they were born like that. Birth order related personality traits can be evidence of that.

I think it's all three. - That we are born with a certain temperament, that our behavior is also consciously shaped by those around us, and that there is probably some subtle shaping going on as well - even before we're actually born. But I don't think we have to discredit one theory to add another, and I do think there are limits on how far away from that genetic setpoint we can move someone.

No, it is not acceptable to yell at another adult to get them to comply. Raising kids is a different situation. If we held them to the same standard as another adult there would be NO acceptable way of disciplining them - we can't send another adult to their room, ground them from going out with their friends, withhold their money, give them a time out, refuse to let them have dessert, or I mean whatever it is how we treat other adults have no bearing. The fact is discipline is a part of raising kids.

This. I think part of our job as parents is to be a mitigated version of the real world – to correct them in a small way (even an unpleasant one) before the world does it for them in a more unpleasant way.

 

[amberpi]

I think it’s admirable that amberpi comes and asks questions when she’s not sure. She knows she risks the tide turning on her but she asks anyway because she cares and like any mom worries if she’s doing it right. (none of us are but we’re doing our best and that’s what counts) Hopefully she doesn’t let an uncalled for and unkind ‘drop in’ shake her confidence.

Thanks for the kind words, but it's a small risk if I can learn or find something DH and I could improve on in parenting. I can get knocked down a few times to be a better person/mom/wife, but I can admit when my feelings get hurt. I started this thread because I just happened to see a number of people at once talking about yelling. I know I use it appropriately on a personal level. When I see monkey boy doing something dumb in an immediate way, I'm going to alert him. Then we talk about why we don't do those things. I'm not mad at them. They're just little kids, they forget stuff, NBD. But back to the thread, it's been interesting, and I think as community members bringing topics up for discussion is part of the deal.

There are some new parenting questions I've wanted to ask, but have chickened out on TBH. One I've been wrestling with for 6+ months, but I'll figure it out eventually

Thanks to all who have said positive things to say about step parents. We're not all Disney villains.

 

[pahoben]

Sorry also yes up to and including full genome. These aren’t databases associated with some heritable disease but very large sequencing up to and including the entire genome.

These data bases are so large that police have been uploading DNA sample results to these services. If they get a reasonable match they can in some cases identify the suspect through the family member that has a sample in the database and has allowed their name to be used publicly in association with their sample results.

 

[amberpi]

These data bases are so large that police have been uploading DNA sample results to these services. If they get a reasonable match they can in some cases identify the suspect through the family member that has a sample in the database and has allowed their name to be used publicly in association with their sample results.

That's kinda scary really.

 

[cabanafrau]

Sorry also yes up to and including full genome. These aren’t databases associated with some heritable disease but very large sequencing up to and including the entire genome.

Are you suggesting the ancestry databases are analyzing the full genome? If so, that does not fit with expert testimony I've heard from forensic biologists who perform DNA analysis and some casual conversations I've been involved in with some of them. The algorithms necessary to come up with results in probabilistic genotyping are incredibly complex simply to determine the likelihood that the comparison DNA from a known sample is either not likely to be a match for an unknown donor on a specific piece of evidence or X sextillion times more likely to be a donor to that sample than an unrelated, unknown donor (that's how the latest DNA analysis method expresses those types of results, the awkward wording is not my lack of skill at expressing the concept.)

Comparing a known reference sample they take from me as a potential donor and comparing it to an unknown DNA profile extracted from a piece of evidence only looks at a few locations on my known DNA profile and the same few locations on the unknown DNA profile extracted from the piece of evidence. The entire genome is not analyzed to do this.

Simply the economics of the ancestry databases analyzing every location on the entire genome makes it incredibly unlikely. Attempting to extract the probabilistic genotyping for the specific behavior traits as you've suggested from an analysis of the entire genome doesn't seem feasible from my understanding of how DNA analysis is conducted. As I understand it the best way to obtain results such as you propose would be to focus analysis only on the data from specific locations on the genome. My thoughts also correlate with the genetic data you expressed upthread identified with letter/number identifiers. I believe those are meant to indicate specific locations on the DNA profile where the data was taken from.

The ancestry sites wouldn't have a need to focus on those specific locations and therefore wouldn't be utilizing resources to analyze that. If they're not conducting the analysis, who is? (And who's paying for it?) I'm not sure of the particulars of how far the legal release of information stretches when giving a sample to an ancestry DNA site, but in any case it seems to me it takes more than access to the profile to connect the dots when claiming a genetic component to a behavioral trait. Without the ability to take the results of analysis of relevant locations on the profile and then confirm them with the human donor, how can one say definitively that this specific gene indicates this person does in fact exhibit the behavioral trait in question? In order for that comparison to take place it means that personally identifying information must be included in the release of information.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Thanks for the kind words, but it's a small risk if I can learn or find something DH and I could improve on in parenting. I can get knocked down a few times to be a better person/mom/wife, but I can admit when my feelings get hurt. I started this thread because I just happened to see a number of people at once talking about yelling. I know I use it appropriately on a personal level. When I see monkey boy doing something dumb in an immediate way, I'm going to alert him. Then we talk about why we don't do those things. I'm not mad at them. They're just little kids, they forget stuff, NBD. But back to the thread, it's been interesting, and I think as community members bringing topics up for discussion is part of the deal.

There are some new parenting questions I've wanted to ask, but have chickened out on TBH. One I've been wrestling with for 6+ months, but I'll figure it out eventually

Thanks to all who have said positive things to say about step parents. We're not all Disney villains.

My stepmom def. disciplined me. I don't know that it was the same sort of relationship my husband had with is stepmom though. More often than not my stepmom was a champion of sorts for me especially when I clashed with my dad. That's not to say I agree with everything my stepmom did or said (she didn't really get along with my mom) but I wouldn't classify it as she could never discipline me simply because she was my stepmom.

Now all that being said my father-in-law's wife is technically my husband's stepmom though we don't really consider her that. At our ages it's mutual respect we need-no parenting required; just the friendship aspect. There have been a few times she's tried to say one thing or another and nope it's just not going to work on a 30 year old and a 29 year old. We're far past the age of someone telling us gender roles or forcing us to do something we truly don't want to. That goes the same for our parents but I will be completely honest that if my mom were to say something it would come across differently to me than my husband's stepmom at my age. For your situtation though and right now it's not the same as it could be years and years down the road.

Totally agree with others though-y'all gotta be on the same page on things