wow, near impossibile for Clinton to win

I'll be the first to admit - it doesn't look good, but........

It ain't over til its over:

Clinton plays election roulette

By: Jeanne Cummings
Feb 13, 2008 06:31 AM EST

Hillary Clinton must downplay the significance of a string of losses while underscoring the importance of the more populous big states to come.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is now on a path to the Democratic nomination that is remarkably similar to the one that failed for Republican Rudy Giuliani.

Just as the former New York mayor pinned his hopes on a late Florida victory to sling-shot him into front-runner status among Republican candidates, the New York senator is banking on wins in Ohio and Texas next month to revive her campaign after a February string of back-to-back-to-back losses.

It’s a high-risk play for the once undisputed Democratic front-runner. It also may be the only maneuver she has left after rival Barack Obama managed to effectively counter her planned Super Tuesday knock-out punch.

Since then, he’s seized momentum by racking up eight wins on friendly turf, including three more Tuesday in Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C.

“How do you survive all of the Obama money, momentum and media between now and March 4 when it looks like you are going to lose everything in between, including the Democrats Abroad vote?” asked unaligned Democratic strategist Mary Anne Marsh.

The answer, according to Marsh and strategists in both parties, isn’t a pretty one — but it does exist.

Like Giuliani, Clinton must downplay the significance of a string of losses while underscoring the importance of the more populous big states to come.

But her strategy is fraught with risks, not the least of which is dismissing the relevance of thousands of pro-Obama Democratic voters in small caucus states and in the seemingly hostile terrain of traditional Republican strongholds.

“It’s not a factor,” was how Clinton dismissed Obama victories in Maine, Nebraska, Louisiana, Virgin Islands and Washington state in an interview with WJLA and Politico on Monday.

“We had a great night on Super Tuesday. We’re winning the states that we have to win. The big states that are really going to determine whether the Democrats win,” she said during the televised discussion.

Clinton has laughed out loud when asked about her losses in red state bastions such as Kansas and other caucus states, backhanding them as products of her own party “activists” and not real voters.

Clinton’s position isn’t a perfect parallel to Giuliani’s.

Unlike the Republican mayor, Clinton has pocketed major victories already. She won the Democratic primaries in New Hampshire, California, New Jersey and New York, all states that make her a credible candidate going forward.


Giuliani hadn’t won a single state before his candidacy-ending loss in Florida’s Republican primary.

“He never really established himself on the stage of presidential primary voting. She clearly has,” says Tad Devine, a strategist to 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. “Hillary’s part of the action now. It’s a two-person race.”

That’s good news, of course, for Clinton but it’s also the reason her campaign now finds itself in limbo, forced to make a more complex appeal to voters.

Clinton argues that she is the stronger candidate because she can win big-state primaries such as in California or New York, states that are critical to the party in November.

By insinuation she seems to suggest Obama might lose those heavily Democratic states in a general election, a point her own party leaders and strategists would likely dispute.

She is encouraging voters in Texas and Ohio to dismiss Obama’s victories as irrelevant.

But those wins actually could add substance to his claim that he has the best chance to expand the electoral map and break out of the red-state, blue-state formula that has bedeviled his party for two presidential cycles.

The goal of Clinton’s new rhetorical assault is to freeze Obama’s momentum before March 4. It’s an especially difficult maneuver—and one that Giuliani couldn’t pull off.

He had a double-digit lead in Florida until Arizona Sen. John McCain won the Republican primary in New Hampshire.

After that, his polling numbers went into a steady slide as McCain began to surge and Giuliani continued to lose badly in all the early states. His collapse ended with a dismal third-place finish in Florida.

Today, Clinton also leads by double-digits in Ohio and Texas. Her challenge is to keep those voters focused on their March primaries and unfazed by what happens in between, the very feat that escaped Giuliani.

Plenty of experts doubt she will be able to keep Buckeye and Lone Star primary voters in such a state of suspended animation.

“It’s not a static process,” says Devine. “It’s a dynamic process. If one candidate can knock down state after state, that will affect what voters do in subsequent states.”

Clinton does have one more hand to play than Giuliani: “superdelegates,” elected officials and party bigwigs not bound by the primary voters’ choices.

The Clinton campaign, led by former President Bill Clinton, already is aggressively courting those delegates to keep Obama’s expected February wins from giving him a sizable lead in the delegate count contest.

A candidate needs 2,025 delegates to win the Democratic nomination.

Obama’s recent victories, not including Tuesday’s wins, have given him an edge in “pledged delegates,” those assigned based on primary voting results. In that category, he has 1,004 to Clinton’s 925.

Of the 796 super delegates, Clinton leads with 213 compared to Obama’s 140.

That advantage has helped Clinton keep the race close: 1,144 total delegates for Obama compared with 1,138 for Clinton, according to a tally on RealClearPolitics.

The tight delegate fight helps explain the overheated courtship of former Democratic candidate John Edwards.

The small number of delegates he won during his abbreviated campaign is now his currency as he tries to gain pledges from the candidates for action on his favored cause of poverty.

Clinton made an unannounced pilgrimage to North Carolina in an attempt to win Edwards’ endorsement and, hopefully, move those delegates into her column.

Obama intends to make the same trek to the Tar Heel State.

Clinton also is pushing party leaders to allow her to count delegates from Michigan and Florida, both of which saw their results disqualified after moving up their primary dates against the party hierarchy’s wishes.

Obama is strongly opposing their inclusion since he did not actively campaign in either state; his name was not even on the Michigan ballot.

Clinton’s reliance on obscure rules and party elites to stay in the nomination hunt ultimately could backfire, particularly if she falters on March 4 and presses on to Pennsylvania.

“Whatever happened to the party of ‘Make every vote count,’ and ‘Let’s count all the ballots’?” asks strategist Matthew Dowd, a former adviser to President Bush.

If she wins the nomination in a way that activists perceive as cheating, “it’s almost akin to a murder-suicide. She takes out Barack Obama and sets herself up for huge problems in the fall,” said Dowd.

Democratic strategist Marsh agrees Clinton’s course carries great risks. But she says Clinton has no better options until the primary calendar tilts back her way next month.

“You can’t care. You have to fight back. Those are the rules,” she said. “A delegate is a delegate is a delegate. On the floor, they all only get one vote.”
 
POP DADDY STARTED A POLITICAL THREAD!!!!!!!!!:faint:

YOU DA MAN!:thumbsup2

Now thats even bigger news than what he is reporting on!:lmao:

Have we learned anything yet in this Country???

NEVER count a Clinton Down!!!

NEVER!:goodvibes

Besides I predict she will get TEXAS & PA! And...upon further analysis.....Ohio & Wisconsin are looking good to....to early to call yet...I'll be back!;)
 


What I don't like is the super delegate. They can do what ever they want...like give it to Clinton. It should be the popular vote without delegates.
 
POP DADDY STARTED A POLITICAL THREAD!!!!!!!!!:faint:

YOU DA MAN!:thumbsup2

Now thats even bigger news than what he is reporting on!:lmao:

Have we learned anything yet in this Country???

NEVER count a Clinton Down!!!

NEVER!:goodvibes

Besides I predict she will get TEXAS & PA! And...upon further analysis.....Ohio & Wisconsin are looking good to....to early to call yet...I'll be back!;)


little known fact about Pop...he is all about politics, he's not just another pretty face:snooty: Unfortunately, he plays for the wrong side....ummmm, politically speaking;)
 


Have we learned anything yet in this Country???

NEVER count a Clinton Down!!!

NEVER!:goodvibes

Besides I predict she will get TEXAS & PA! And...upon further analysis.....Ohio & Wisconsin are looking good to....to early to call yet...I'll be back!;)

True true true. I am no fan of the Clintons, but I will count out cockroaches before I count out the Clintons.
 
little known fact about Pop...he is all about politics, he's not just another pretty face:snooty: Unfortunately, he plays for the wrong side....ummmm, politically speaking;)

WHEW! Am I glad you added "ummmm, politically speaking"!!! Otherwise the "sleeveless" thing takes on a whole new meaning!:eek:

not that there is anything wrong with that
 
The projections I'm seeing indicate that neither may have enough delegates to take the nomination outright, so it will come down to superdelegates. The title might just as well be, "Wow, near impossible for Obama to win." If she gets the superdelegates, he whines. If he gets them, she whines. Only one can get that nomination in the end.

I don't rely on the polls too much these days anyway. They have been terribly inaccurate at times this year. I'm just sitting back and watching.
 
The projections I'm seeing indicate that neither may have enough delegates to take the nomination outright, so it will come down to superdelegates. The title might just as well be, "Wow, near impossible for Obama to win." If she gets the superdelegates, he whines. If he gets them, she whines. Only one can get that nomination in the end.

I don't rely on the polls too much these days anyway. They have been terribly inaccurate at times this year. I'm just sitting back and watching.

I hope you are right. I am hoping for a very bitter, contentious fight. Its a nice way to begin the general election! :rotfl2:
 
My alma mater does one of the best student mock conventions in the country - since 1948, we've only been wrong once. They picked Clinton this year, 2117 to 1642 for Obama. I've been meaning to watch the webcast to see if the states that have alreay been decided were correct.

I would really hate for us to be wrong, especially since this was the 100th anniversary of the Mock Con!
 
I'm not a Democrat or fan of this Clintons, but I agree with this statement whole heartedly.


You took the words right out of my mouth.

If Obama supporters think they have everything wrapped up, remember two dates. Fall of 1994 & Fall of 1998.

In late 1994 when the GOP took control of both the House and Senate with the contract for America, political pundits all said Bill Clinton was finished. Two years later he was re elected.

In the fall of 1998 with his reluctant admission of sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky and after denying it for 8 months, political pundits were writing his political obituary. Once again he defied the odds. Don't ever count neither one of them out and they both have proven they can take a serious punch and still stand in there. I'll believe Obama has it wrapped up when he completes the sweep by mid March, until then everything is still in play.
 
I don't believe it will come down to the convention and the superdelegates. Howard Dean has already said that if they're still so close - I thiink he said by May - he will call them both to his office at the DNC and force one of them to drop out. Probably cut some kind of deal.

I favor Obama, but I would vote for Hillary in the DE.

I also agree that the superdelegate system is unfair. It should definitely be by popular vote.
 
Two lines that I really love in that article quoted above -

First:

She is encouraging voters in Texas and Ohio to dismiss Obama’s victories as irrelevant.

That's the same attitude that's an argument for the electoral college. Why worry about campaigning in the smaller states? Just concentrate on the big states like NY, Ohio, and Texas. What do smaller states like SC, Iowa, or WA matter?

Second:

Clinton also is pushing party leaders to allow her to count delegates from Michigan and Florida, both of which saw their results disqualified after moving up their primary dates against the party hierarchy’s wishes.

Obama is strongly opposing their inclusion since he did not actively campaign in either state; his name was not even on the Michigan ballot.

The party sets forth rules, certain states break the rules and are penalized, the other candidates play by the rules and agree not to campaign or even have their names on the ballot, and now Clinton wants to change the rules when it satisfies her? That would be a big mistake and could actually add fodder for the GOP to accuse the Dems and Clintons of making up rules as they go. Would she be so willing to change them if she had a commanding lead in the delegate count? Or if they were small, irrelevant states?
 
I don't believe it will come down to the convention and the superdelegates. Howard Dean has already said that if they're still so close - I thiink he said by May - he will call them both to his office at the DNC and force one of them to drop out. Probably cut some kind of deal.

I favor Obama, but I would vote for Hillary in the DE.

I also agree that the superdelegate system is unfair. It should definitely be by popular vote.

I think perhaps that Howard Dean is overwhelmed with his own importance. I can't imagine Hillary going quietly into the night.
 

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