Why is the Swan & Dolphin not owned by Walt Disney World?

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

I have always wondered why is the Swan & Dolphin not owned by Walt Disney World? To me it's kind of weird having 2 Resorts located so close to Epcot, Disney MGM Studios, the Boardwalk, Yacht Club & Beach Club, but they are not owned by WDW. I know you still get WDW Transportation which is a lot better then the Hotels on Hotel Plaza BLVD that are located right by Downtown Disney Marketplace, which are also not owned by WDW. However since they are not owned by WDW guests there still miss out on such services as Magical Express, EMH (altough not 100% sure about that) & using their Resort charge card at places outside their Hotel. So if anyone can answer this I would appreciate it.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

This might help explain it.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

It helped a little when I read towards the ending about how it was to be a convention Hotel. However I thought it never explained about having 2 Hotels owned by Sheraton, right in the middle of Walt Disney World. Also I am sure it's not just convention guests that stay there, because I have read they have great rates & deals which a lot of people seem to like.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

We book using one of their discounts, so pay around the same or less than we'd pay at a Disney moderate. We rent a car, and don't miss charging on the room card. S/D guests are welcome at EMHs, too. We found the service to be top notch, and the Heaveny beds are awesome. So many good things about this resort. The convention business is enormous, but families are not out of place there. It's a nice mix, actually. Don't get me wrong - we absolutely loved the YC too. But for the price, we're very happy to stay at the Dolphin.

 

[mordux]

The complete answer is in the book "Disney Wars".
It seems that at the time of development, Eisner first Ok'd and then reneged on Tishman building these on site properties as Sheraton's.

After much legal wrangling and threats of lawsuits, an accord was struck whereby, Marriot or Sheraton, was allowed to build and manage these 2, and only these 2 hotels. Apparently there were originally planned to be a few more, but Eisner figured out how lucrative onsite, wholly owned Disney properties would be worth and tried at all lengths to sabotage and/or derail these 2 properties that were already under contract.

Hope that helps.

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

The complete answer is in the book "Disney Wars".
It seems that at the time of development, Eisner first Ok'd and then reneged on Tishman building these on site properties as Sheraton's.

After much legal wrangling and threats of lawsuits, an accord was struck whereby, Marriot or Sheraton, was allowed to build and manage these 2, and only these 2 hotels. Apparently there were originally planned to be a few more, but Eisner figured out how lucrative onsite, wholly owned Disney properties would be worth and tried at all lengths to sabotage and/or derail these 2 properties that were already under contract.

Hope that helps.

Unless someone else can give a differnt answer, your's helps a lot & it's the kind of response I was hopping for. Thank you for posting it.

 

[minnie61650]

I read a thread about the dolphins at the Swan Dolphin hotels a while back that was very interesting.

The question asked was....

Does anyone know the story behind why the Dolphin has gigantic sculptures on top that are obviously fish, not dolphins?

See post 13 where Mr. SwanDolphin gives a little of his insight about the Dolphins sculptures.



http://disboards.com/showthread.php?p=3152004#post3152004

 

[stopgo]

The complete answer is in the book "Disney Wars".
It seems that at the time of development, Eisner first Ok'd and then reneged on Tishman building these on site properties as Sheraton's.

After much legal wrangling and threats of lawsuits, an accord was struck whereby, Marriot or Sheraton, was allowed to build and manage these 2, and only these 2 hotels. Apparently there were originally planned to be a few more, but Eisner figured out how lucrative onsite, wholly owned Disney properties would be worth and tried at all lengths to sabotage and/or derail these 2 properties that were already under contract.

Hope that helps.

I recently finished reading that book and I couldn't put it down!

Just a little more detail because it's so compelling: The SWOLPHIN is something that's actually touched on in "Disney Wars" quite broadly in the scope of setting up the story about Disney's faltering board of directors. Eisner considered himself something of an architecture buff and, upon his arrival, insisted that Disney could do some truly remarkable things with Disney-branded hotels; in effect, turning the hotel properties into destinations unto themselves through stunning/breakthrough architecture and Disney-level service. Realizing that Disney faced two significant problems in building new hotels (namely, a lack of capital and a lack of experience in creating/managing resort hotels) he began talking to folks who knew a thing or two about running world-class resorts. This was at a time when the Disney hotels were charging significantly less than many of the off-property hotels in the area. The beancounters pointed this fact out and explained that a potentially huge source of revenue was being overlooked but none of the "old school" board members paid much attention.

Enter Card Walker. For all this man did for the parks' in their early years, by the 80's he was out of touch and a huge impediment to any drastic (and, at the time of Eisner's arrival, very necessary) changes. His words were to the effect of "We're not in the hotel business", so the discussions that Eisner had had with other hoteliers were essentially derailed. By this point, however, he'd (Eisner) at least reached an agreement in principal with the Marriott (??) folks. It was also at this point that Eisner tried to reclaim his baby, so to speak and kick the outside hoteliers off the program... so...qeue the threats of lawsuits and you have the set up to the SWOLPHIN's birth.

Incidentally, it was also Walker who strongly resisted increasing admission prices to the theme parks at a time when the company was bleeding cash and trying to avert a "greemail" situation (hostile takeover). The late 70's/early 80's were a very dark time for the company and precipitated the hiring of Eisner (ironically, his driving the company into an almost identical situation nearly 20 years later would drive him out).

Pick up a copy of the book. It is a phenominally detailed look at the ins and outs of the Disney entertainment behemoth over the last 20+ years. It might diminish some of the magic for you, but you'll be amazed that they managed to get much of anything right and shocked at just how much they screwed up under Eisner. It explains why EuroDisney was built in France despite the objections of every board member (except one), that Disney passed on such opportunities as "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy and the many, many talented people that were either forced out or left in disgust.

 

[Blondie]

I read a thread about the dolphins at the Swan Dolphin hotels a while back that was very interesting.

The question asked was....

Does anyone know the story behind why the Dolphin has gigantic sculptures on top that are obviously fish, not dolphins?

See post 13 where Mr. SwanDolphin gives a little of his insight about the Dolphins sculptures.



http://disboards.com/showthread.php?p=3152004#post3152004

Thanks for posting that link! What a blast from the past!

 

[Lewisc]

Remember all the DTD hotels are on Disney owned land. Originally Disney wasn't sure they wanted to be in the hotel business.

 

[cruisinalong]

Fairly sure they (Swan and Dolphin) are partially owned by Disney.

 

[Denise W]

Fairly sure they (Swan and Dolphin) are partially owned by Disney.

Why are you bumping a 13 year old thread?
Denise

 

[plutolovr]

I read a thread about the dolphins at the Swan Dolphin hotels a while back that was very interesting.

The question asked was....

Does anyone know the story behind why the Dolphin has gigantic sculptures on top that are obviously fish, not dolphins?

See post 13 where Mr. SwanDolphin gives a little of his insight about the Dolphins sculptures.



http://disboards.com/showthread.php?p=3152004#post3152004

Actually those are Dolphin Fish....not Bottle Nose Dolphins.

 

[Hopefully]

Fairly sure they (Swan and Dolphin) are partially owned by Disney.

This is a 13 year old thread. It is as ridiculous today as it was then.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

Wow. I thought CR Resort Fan was back and posting again!

 

[Dave006]

Why are you bumping a 13 year old thread?
Denise

These Zombie topics pop up as items at the bottom of the web pages of my forum users. It is very common for new forum members to miss the fact that these may indeed be old and often long lost threads that may not need to be brought back with a new post.

Dave

 

[DSLRuser]

The complete answer is in the book "Disney Wars".
It seems that at the time of development, Eisner first Ok'd and then reneged on Tishman building these on site properties as Sheraton's.

After much legal wrangling and threats of lawsuits, an accord was struck whereby, Marriot or Sheraton, was allowed to build and manage these 2, and only these 2 hotels. Apparently there were originally planned to be a few more, but Eisner figured out how lucrative onsite, wholly owned Disney properties would be worth and tried at all lengths to sabotage and/or derail these 2 properties that were already under contract.

Hope that helps.

This exactly.

This was in the way early days of building Disney World as we know it now. Eisner realized after he said ok, the gold mine he was sitting on, but by that time it was too late.

That book is a great read for the Disney Nerd.

 

[wcw57]

I don't see any harm in refreshing an old thread....unless there is time-sensitive info contained therein......

where is the problem?

 

[Hopefully]

Information changes in 13 years. Maybe not for this topic but for NEARLY ALL.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

Woo Hoo! I love zombie threads! Just sayin'