Why dont people plan?

[Angel Ariel]

Planning a great vacation of any kind takes some effort

This is pretty much the crux of the disagreement. I've taken plenty of last minute trips where very little effort was put in beforehand and they were fantastic trips. And I'm not just referring to beachy/relaxing type vacations either.

I've also had very planned out trips that were also fantastic, so I'm not suggesting that a trip with a lot of effort put in can't be fabulous as well. Just that prepLanning is not, IME, a requirement for having a great trip.

 

[JimmyV]

This is pretty much the crux of the disagreement.

I agree. There seems to be a disconnect between the type of planning that is intuitive versus the type of planning that is required for WDW. If I am planning a trip to, say, New York City, intuitively I know to begin booking restaurant reservations around 60 days out. It is almost impossible to do so any earlier than that because most major restaurants do not book any further in advance than 60 days. And in fact 30 days is even more common. So my intuitive time clock is to begin planning a month or two in advance. If one uses that same intuition for Disney World, they will find themselves behind the eight ball. Of course there are sources which will tell you to do things differently for Disney World, but that goes against the whole idea one's own intuition. What many people seem to overlook is that their own planning strategies were learned behaviors acquired over many years of traveling to Disney World. They were not intuitive planning strategies that were acquired from the outset. But now they want to project their learned behaviors on to first-time visitors. That is simply not realistic. Yes there are places where first-time visitors can go to find out everything that the experts know. But in order to go looking, you first have to know that you need to look. And that simply is not intuitive. If booking restaurant reservations for New York or San Francisco or New Orleans or Chicago is something done 30 to 60 days in advance, why would any first-time visitor think to book 180 days in advance when going to Disney World? No one would do this unless they were told that they had to, since that type of booking window is simply counterintuitive.

 

[John Marecek]

This is pretty much the crux of the disagreement. I've taken plenty of last minute trips where very little effort was put in beforehand and they were fantastic trips. And I'm not just referring to beachy/relaxing type vacations either.

I've also had very planned out trips that were also fantastic, so I'm not suggesting that a trip with a lot of effort put in can't be fabulous as well. Just that prepLanning is not, IME, a requirement for having a great trip.

Starting to think I'm the odd one here. Our planning began more than a year before we planned to go on first trip with the kids. By planning, I mean researching cost, how it works, and so on. Neither of us had been there in 15 years. My wife had must do's before we knew we were actually going.

Fair to think there's 1 group who dreams of taking their kids on their first ever trip to WDW, and another who sees WDW as a place to go this year since we've never been there and it looks fun. I should probably check out of this conversation.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Starting to think I'm the odd one here. Our planning began more than a year before we planned to go on first trip with the kids. By planning, I mean researching cost, how it works, and so on. Neither of us had been there in 15 years. My wife had must do's before we knew we were actually going.

Fair to think there's 1 group who dreams of taking their kids on their first ever trip to WDW, and another who sees WDW as a place to go this year since we've never been there and it looks fun. I should probably check out of this conversation.

That's just it; the OP asked if we came across the people who go to WDW without planning (or seeing the need to plan) and the point being, it's all relative. There are those similar to yourself who have analyzed every part of it, have multiple ADRs, probably will have the perfect fps, and more than likely will save money while doing it. Then there are those, like myself, who do minimal planning. For us, the more minimal the better. Do we still have ADRs and some fast passes? You betcha. But, if we're half way though our pre planned day and it starts to crumble, we scrap it and find something else to do. There is planning without overdoing it. Knowledge and being aware does not always equal planning. There are many factors that can make a well planned vacation go south, from malfunctioning wristbands, to ADRs being messed up, crowds affecting ability to get around smoothly, rides being down, meltdowns (both adult and child), and other unforeseen (unplanned) events. It's how well a person handles the situation and adapts to it which is the difference, I think.
We all have strategies we employ. I'm pretty sure OP was talking about those who are basically clueless to the workings of a WDW vacation, and how receptive they are to (well intended) advice. Some will be miserable, declare it the worst vacation ever, overrated, never going back, etc, while others are blissfully ignorant, just happy to be there and finally fulfill a dream. Many of them will realize that next time, they need more of a game plan, while others will plan to go to the beach next vacation.

 

[gypsicat]

I have been visiting Kings Island and Cedar Point yearly since I was a child. I had mentally put Disney World into the same category, so I planned our first "trip" much the same way...which was not much planning.

I looked to see what rides were available, height requirements, ticket cost and park hours. That was all.

It never occurred to me that I would need to do more planning.

As far as missing all the reminders that are sent. We were at an off site condo. Disney was sort of a last minute addition. We bought the tickets that day.

My expectations for Disney World were crowded, long lines and hit. We met our expectations! But had a great time.

Anyway, after our day visit, I did look up info on BBB which informed me that I needed to reserve it pretty far out, which then led me to another site with more info, which eventually led me to this board. Now I know better.

But really, going into our first visit, I sort of lumped it into my mental category of "amusement parks" which equals rides, long lines, and grab a bite to eat at some food stand somewhere. Everyone I know usually tacks Disney on as a day trip during spring break at the beach, so extensive planning just wasn't on my radar.

 

[Shanan]

Jokes on you... I checked last night tempted to comment on this thread and there was availability for almost every restaurant on site. A few I noticed she wouldn't be able to get were Cinderella's Royal Table, Be Our Guest and Sci Fi Diner, but if she was just looking for a good meal there was a PLETHORA of options including a 7:10 at California Grill which would be fantastic followed by a drink and fireworks....

Whew! Glad there was some openings. I hope they got a good sit down restaurant. I did get text today while they were at DHS. They wanted to ride RnR but didn't want to wait. I told them to do single rider line.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Starting to think I'm the odd one here. Our planning began more than a year before we planned to go on first trip with the kids. By planning, I mean researching cost, how it works, and so on. Neither of us had been there in 15 years. My wife had must do's before we knew we were actually going.

Fair to think there's 1 group who dreams of taking their kids on their first ever trip to WDW, and another who sees WDW as a place to go this year since we've never been there and it looks fun. I should probably check out of this conversation.

FWIW, I wasn't just talking about Disney World vacations, just vacations in general. We've gone to Paris on 3 days notice and done everything we set out to do without issue. We rarely preplan trips to NYC beyond buying a ticket for a show (sometimes not even that, and we hsve just bought rush tickets at the theatre). Although we have done both WDW/DLR vacations that are very planned out as well as others not so much also.

 

[John Marecek]

That's just it; the OP asked if we came across the people who go to WDW without planning (or seeing the need to plan) and the point being, it's all relative. There are those similar to yourself who have analyzed every part of it, have multiple ADRs, probably will have the perfect fps, and more than likely will save money while doing it. Then there are those, like myself, who do minimal planning. For us, the more minimal the better. Do we still have ADRs and some fast passes? You betcha. But, if we're half way though our pre planned day and it starts to crumble, we scrap it and find something else to do. There is planning without overdoing it. Knowledge and being aware does not always equal planning. There are many factors that can make a well planned vacation go south, from malfunctioning wristbands, to ADRs being messed up, crowds affecting ability to get around smoothly, rides being down, meltdowns (both adult and child), and other unforeseen (unplanned) events. It's how well a person handles the situation and adapts to it which is the difference, I think.
We all have strategies we employ. I'm pretty sure OP was talking about those who are basically clueless to the workings of a WDW vacation, and how receptive they are to (well intended) advice. Some will be miserable, declare it the worst vacation ever, overrated, never going back, etc, while others are blissfully ignorant, just happy to be there and finally fulfill a dream. Many of them will realize that next time, they need more of a game plan, while others will plan to go to the beach next vacation.

I agree with you on having a plan with flexibility, and manage expectations. There is no perfect plan. If every minute is plotted, 1 late bus or delayed ADR could ruin your whole day. That sounds more stressful than showing up unaware of what FP+ is

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If the CMs are not going to tell people on the phone when they call to book their first vacation how it all works, how could they be expected to know??? Yes, people use the internet to search where they want to go and where they want to stay, but using a general Google search for answers is not going to tell you that you need to use a website that tells you how to plan.

I can understand your point on this but it's really not as simple as that.

I could just imagine a CM saying "Now just remember to book your ADRs at 180 days or your FP+ at 60 days" and the person on the other end being like "ADRs? what's that and what do you mean Fast Pass". Even though it would be awesome to have each and every CM spend the time to tailor their conversation to match how much knowledge their caller has or doesn't have it's just not feasible.

Granted I haven't had to call Disney but if someone was booking a package over the phone then really all the CM should have to say is "Your vacation package should arrive..." and maybe throw in you can login to your account for more assistance and if they didn't have an account they could send them off to the appropriate department who could help the person set it up.

And this is just me but when I have a destination in mind the first thing I do is try to find the official website for that place..When I was visiting my husband in April in Maryland we decided to go to Solomons Island for a bit (which is really close to where he is at)..I searched and they actually had a tourism webpage with links to all the restaurants in town, ideas for stuff to do, etc. We went to the Inner Harbor area in Baltimore and they have a tourism webpage on Baltimore's website for that area (all I did was search inner harbor baltimore and the 1st result was the tourism page set up by the City itself).

For WDW the 1st thing I did was go to their website then I went to Pinterest and other random blogs and forums; same for Universal Studios Florida. Again though this is just me. WDW and USO both have areas for planning your visit. WDW though isn't as cut and dry as USO's. Theirs is more go to the Help section up at the top. After clicking that you can ask questions, you can chat (when available and I've done that before), you can call or e-mail. It also has FAQs where it goes into the basics of "What is FP+?", dining assistance, etc. I like WDW's navigating better than USO's website but I will admit the getting to the planning help is a few more clicks than USO's website.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Just wanted to add something new and interesting which may be a way to target offsite guests. My husband and I were debating going for 4th of July weekend break and pricing it out. I went ahead and made a few ADRs just to get something on the books. The next day I got an e-mail that said:

"Since you took the time to plan your Walt Disney World Resort dining in advance, we thought you might like to reserve access to select Theme Park experiences in advance as well. And with Disney FastPass+ service*, you can!

With Disney FastPass+ service, you can lock in some of your must-do fun before you arrive. That means you can enjoy less time waiting in line and more time having fun. Best yet—it's included at no extra charge with Theme Park admission.

Choose from select attractions, Character greetings, shows and more!
Speaking of admission, with four separate Theme Parks, there's enough magic to fill up an entire week or more. That's why we think a 4-Day Magic Your Way® Ticket† would be just perfect for you.
To use Disney FastPass+ service, you'll need to purchase, link and assign a Walt Disney World Theme Park ticket for each member of your travel party age three (3) or older, then select your Disney FastPass+ experiences. You can make multiple selections in one Theme Park per day, and you can use it for each day you have a valid Theme Park ticket."

Below was a link to "Start Now" so I think they are trying to reach offsite visitors to let them know. Of course, I HAD to make a reservation to trigger this, but it's a start to telling people what they may not know.

The other catch I haven't really seen talked about is people who plan, but really don't know any better so plan poorly. A friend of mine recently went and when I got all nosey to live vicariously through her she said she made fast passes for "Nemo, Lion King and Bugs Life" she also had fast passes for Aladdins Magic Carpets, Frozen show. Basically a lot of fast passes that probably were NOT going to help her much, so I basically was like "Um NO, they tricked you so they can get more people to waste their fast passes and not run out of good ones. Let's get you some good ones." NOTE the pictures in the e-mail, 2 of the 3 are not highly valued fastpass choices.

I try to send everyone a link to the MesaBoy mega fastpass thread where he grades all the fast passes.

 

[paty]

some people just don't care and I guess if you don't know that you are missing something, doesn't really matter.
A friend of mine is going in 2 weeks, she had it booked for more than 5 months now and she does not want to have any dining reservations.
Her kids are very picky and won't eat anything besides chicken nuggets, still, she just told me she does not want to spend the time researching it, even when I told her that not every QS has chicken nuggets. She got a couple of fastpasses but not all 3 and not for all park days.
She is always calling me to ask everything but even when I tell her how I do it, she doesn't think it's that important.

 

[Canooknic]

That's just it; the OP asked if we came across the people who go to WDW without planning (or seeing the need to plan) and the point being, it's all relative. There are those similar to yourself who have analyzed every part of it, have multiple ADRs, probably will have the perfect fps, and more than likely will save money while doing it. Then there are those, like myself, who do minimal planning. For us, the more minimal the better. Do we still have ADRs and some fast passes? You betcha. But, if we're half way though our pre planned day and it starts to crumble, we scrap it and find something else to do. There is planning without overdoing it. Knowledge and being aware does not always equal planning. There are many factors that can make a well planned vacation go south, from malfunctioning wristbands, to ADRs being messed up, crowds affecting ability to get around smoothly, rides being down, meltdowns (both adult and child), and other unforeseen (unplanned) events. It's how well a person handles the situation and adapts to it which is the difference, I think.
We all have strategies we employ. I'm pretty sure OP was talking about those who are basically clueless to the workings of a WDW vacation, and how receptive they are to (well intended) advice. Some will be miserable, declare it the worst vacation ever, overrated, never going back, etc, while others are blissfully ignorant, just happy to be there and finally fulfill a dream. Many of them will realize that next time, they need more of a game plan, while others will plan to go to the beach next vacation.

We are the same. We have a couple of ADRs, a rough idea of what park we're visiting each day and book FPs based on that. If our kids decide they want another day at Epcot instead of AK then that's fine, we change our plans and FPs.
My friend and I have discussed how we can never have a Disney vacation together because she has every minute of every day planned and my approach gives her hives!! Lol Whereas I think she's crazy and by the time she gets back from 10 days in the World she needs another vacation!

We always get on the rides we want to and always get a meal somewhere with minimal wait (one of my boys is NOT a patient child!) and have a wonderful trip.

I love the non-planners....they're not blocking my FP line and the über-planners keep everything running nicely!!!

 

[whiporee]

Just to throw in some Disney-defensive stuff, it's 7:35 and I'm in line for Washington Monument tickets, and have been for 35 minutes or so. I'm 45 deep in a 100-or-so deep line and the booth opens at 8:30 (or that's the rumor. It could be 8. No one will give up a spot in line to check the door ).

The soonest I could buy tickets for was Aug 6 when I tried last week. That's a little more than 60 days. So I don't think long lines and advantage-planning is specific to WDW. It's the same anywhere people congregate.

I do have to add this is more like a FP- line, because I should be able to pick a return time (out of what's left). And it's s nice morning with cool stuff to see. But where there are tourists, there are lines; WDW doesn't have a monopoly on that.

They do charge more, though.

ETA: yep, it was 8:39 but tickets are in hand

 

[stratus]

So I thought I would toss my opinion into the mix on this interesting discussion.

I am not nearly as experienced as most on these boards (I have been maybe 8 or 9 times to WDW). I don't do much park planning at all. I always get the park hopper. I do some Dinning reservations for things I really want to get to that year, but aside from that I have never done the FP+. I have gone to the park and gotten some fast passes that day, but I usually go for 10 days or so, and I just like to wander. Often I leave all of my time keep things (phones watches etc) at the hotel. When I go to WDW I carry nothing but the bare essentials and I just go where the wind takes me.

I spend so much of my life planning that once I have done all the saving/planning to GET to vacation, I just kind of wing it while I am there. There is so much to see and do everywhere that I don't (and have never) really sweated getting to something specific. On the odd occasion I really wanted to do something and I couldn't that day, the next trip back to that park means I bee-line to the fast pass booth and if I get one, GREAT, if not... meh

Maybe I am just odd in this way

 

[mickeyluv'r]

That's just it; the OP asked if we came across the people who go to WDW without planning (or seeing the need to plan) and the point being, it's all relative. There are those similar to yourself who have analyzed every part of it, have multiple ADRs, probably will have the perfect fps, and more than likely will save money while doing it. Then there are those, like myself, who do minimal planning. For us, the more minimal the better. Do we still have ADRs and some fast passes? You betcha. But, if we're half way though our pre planned day and it starts to crumble, we scrap it and find something else to do. There is planning without overdoing it. Knowledge and being aware does not always equal planning.

Good post, but there's more to it than that. What I find kind of troublesome are the posters who came here to gloat. Some posts also suggested that legitimate criticisms of WDW don't exist, that anyone who isn't 100% happy with WDW didn't plan enough.

The folks who run WDW often do an impressive job of keeping thousands of guests happy, but it is far from perfectly run. I know many people who have legitimate concerns with WDW.

For a start, I know plenty of young girls who are far more into sports than princesses. WDW is a bit uncomfortable if you don't identify with a frilly dress wearing princess. Isn't it high time for an Abby Wambach-style heroine?

There's another group of folks who travel outside of WDW, and see much of WDW, especially WL, AKL, AK, and Epcot as disturbingly fake. They prefer REAL geysers to fake ones, and free-roaming animals to caged ones. People in real Africa need the financial support of tourism far more than Disney.

Still another group of folks has concerns with the crazy merchandise mark ups.

 

[helenb]

I just wanted to respond to these specific comments with our own personal experience.

For a start, I know plenty of young girls who are far more into sports than princesses. WDW is a bit uncomfortable if you don't identify with a frilly dress wearing princess. Isn't it high time for an Abby Wambach-style heroine?

My daughter isn't into sports at all, but is very much a tomboy. She never liked the frilly dresses and princesses. Yet she loved eating at CRT when she was younger, and got a sword instead of a wand. And while we never did princess m&g (except for a couple of character meals) she still enjoyed the related rides (Aladdin's carpets, Snow White, Peter Pan, etc.). She was also very much into POTC, HM, JC, Space, etc. She never felt uncomfortable because she wasn't into Princesses. In fact, she felt more uncomfortable at school where the girls were all into princesses and she wasn't. (I remember when she was in kindy, for Halloween all of the girls came dressed to school as a princess, except my daughter who was Captain Hook!)

But nowhere in the parks was she *ever* made to feel uncomfortable for not being a 'princess person'.

There's another group of folks who travel outside of WDW, and see much of WDW, especially WL, AKL, AK, and Epcot as disturbingly fake. They prefer REAL geysers to fake ones, and free-roaming animals to caged ones.

We have traveled a number of times to Europe, including to all of the European countries depicted at Epcot. And I grew up in Canada. And other than Morocco, I've been to all of the Epcot-represented countries IRL at least once. Yes, the versions at Epcot are not *real*, but they do evoke the flavor of those other places, and remind me of the times we traveled to those countries. The international pavilions certainly do not 'turn us off' in any way.

So while there may be people who have the criticisms you suggested, not everyone feels that way.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I can understand your point on this but it's really not as simple as that.

I could just imagine a CM saying....
View attachment 173578

I can imagine phone CM's saying many things that aren't correct, because it has happened to me a number of times, and I'm far from the only DISer to report CM's giving incorrect information, website errors, etc.

I've also been known to laugh out loud when I read WDW travel advice in magazines. I even take issue with several touring plan sites.

Further, I don't know about you, but I get Disney junk mail in my inbox almost every day, along with a host other retailers. (Worse, much of it is completely fake!) I just don't read most of it. I can't fault anyone who doesn't read every Disney message that arrives in their inbox.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can imagine phone CM's saying many things that aren't correct, because it has happened to me a number of times, and I'm far from the only DISer to report CM's giving incorrect information, website errors, etc.

I've also been known to laugh out loud when I read WDW travel advice in magazines. I even take issue with several touring plan sites.

Further, I don't know about you, but I get Disney junk mail in my inbox almost every day, along with a host other retailers. (Worse, much of it is completely fake!) I just don't read most of it. I can't fault anyone who doesn't read every Disney message that arrives in their inbox.

Yeah I hear ya...I also previously worked for a large insurance company where I was on the phone for 4 1/2 years though I spoke mostly to agents and rarely with insureds. I get both sides (the phone CM and the caller)..I wouldn't advocate telling outright lies or making up stuff but I know it's hard when the person on the phone is demanding an answer and the CM has none (though from what I hear they just offer up some crazy responses when there wasn't a pressure to give one in the 1st place). I'm not defending the CMs who give out false or half-truth or a wrong way of explaining something at all. That wasn't the intent of my post. FWIW I rarely said the canned answers I was told to say..they sounded fake and what the higher ups didn't care to understand is that generally when someone is calling mad as heck (agent or insured) the last thing they wanted to hear was the canned response. But I also didn't make up crazy answer for things either.

As far as the junk mail...yes I get them but I do read them..the thing is at my last job I would hear it all the time from agents concerning their insureds: "you don't really expect people to read their mail?" Uh..yes I do because it contains important information like when your bill is due, how much your insurance premium is and any legal information regarding your policy such as a notice of cancellation (which that by law had to go out as regular mail).

WDW is voluntary e-mail and mail you get. If you give them your e-mail and/or address you are giving them permission to send you stuff. That goes the same for 3rd party companies that you give permission to send you stuff. Also if you have a MDE account and are getting tired of all the e-mail junk you get that you don't care about (which wouldn't necessarily impact your room only reservation or package aside from special offers) you can adjust them in your account: ETA: Even with adjusting the below options you should still receive communication regarding windows for FP+s and ADRs (though I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that yes people do report issues with receiving their information)


If you go to order a planning DVD or view it online (and people can and do that without having a MDE account) you have to give out certain information but at the bottom of the page it has:

 

[ToyStory3]

I think the fact that people need to this amount of research and planning is a flaw of WDW. Typical people aren't going to be on The Dis. They're going to read the information that is sent to them and what's available on the website. But, that would never tell you that you need to set your alarm for 6 am to get highly coveted reservations. They've made it so complex and there's so much "inside" information that most people would never know.

 

[Nancyg56]

Starting to think I'm the odd one here. Our planning began more than a year before we planned to go on first trip with the kids. By planning, I mean researching cost, how it works, and so on. Neither of us had been there in 15 years. My wife had must do's before we knew we were actually going.

Fair to think there's 1 group who dreams of taking their kids on their first ever trip to WDW, and another who sees WDW as a place to go this year since we've never been there and it looks fun. I should probably check out of this conversation.

It is also fair to think there is that group in the middle who plans what they want to plan. Or the group works with a TA who books the trip, reserves their room and tickets, sells them the DDP, and tells them that they are good to go. Not everyone can see WDW as it really is. For instance, DLR veterans who think they know Disney could be in for a World of Hurt..Thye are used to Disney, but do not realize WDW is a different animal.

some people just don't care and I guess if you don't know that you are missing something, doesn't really matter.
A friend of mine is going in 2 weeks, she had it booked for more than 5 months now and she does not want to have any dining reservations.
Her kids are very picky and won't eat anything besides chicken nuggets, still, she just told me she does not want to spend the time researching it, even when I told her that not every QS has chicken nuggets. She got a couple of fastpasses but not all 3 and not for all park days.
She is always calling me to ask everything but even when I tell her how I do it, she doesn't think it's that important.

Your friend will probably be alright in terms of dining if she is going all QS. If one place does not have nuggets, another will. AS to the rest, if you offered, well....