When does it make sense to buy HHI or Vero Beach?

[mamatohaleybug]

What kind of buyer is purchasing these resale contracts? And why?

 

[hhisc16]

What kind of buyer is purchasing these resale contracts? And why?

People normally buy resale HHI for the summer months or to get studios/1 bedrooms/grand villas.
The delta between cash vs dvc points on studios at HHI in the summer during the week is still there.

 

[NY Pirate Princess]

My colleague bought a subsidized VB a few years ago and has had wild success with it. Staying on property and enjoying VB with his family. He would buy more with the right price and use year. Lives near HHI and would buy there, too, maybe.

I would not buy either but I can see a path for others.

 

[heathpack]

Funny you should ask this. I just moved from LA to Alabama. We own a small VGC contract that we used for 1-3 night stays at Disneyland, plus a 25 point HHI contract. We’re selling two of our West Coast Hyatt timeshares, and I am toying with the idea of buying more DVC with the proceeds.

My initial thought was to buy AKL, but we love Hilton Head too. We own an every other year Marriott week in Hilton Head already. Today I was wondering if an HHI contract might make more sense for us than AKL:

1. HHI is closer: 5 hr vs 7 hr for Orlando
2. We’d want a more prime season (summer) at HHI than we would want at AKL (May or Sept)
3. HHI as a destination is more frugal, in that the major attraction (the ocean) is free
4. HHI would be cheaper to buy, maybe $30/pt less than AKL. If I bought a 150 pt contract, that difference is around $4500, which is about the same $ amount as paying $2/pt more in dues over 15 years (the duration of time I’d anticipate owning).

The price I’d pay for buying HHI over AKL, as I see it, is that HHI will be worth much less when I resell than AKL. The advantage I’d get is the summer booking preference.

I think it might be a good mix for us. We could vary our stays between peak season HHI, low-ish season AKL and either rent the VGC points to subsidize the other DVC ownerships or take the occasional splurge trip to Disneyland. It might actually be nice to stay at the Grand Californian for 4-5 days, which is something we’ve never done.

So… now I ask the OP: what am I missing, given that you find it hard to believe HHI makes sense for folks as a hone resort?

 

[CarolynFH]

I think it makes sense to buy HHI and VB if you plan to stay there regularly or frequently, especially during busy times of year.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Funny you should ask this. I just moved from LA to Alabama. We own a small VGC contract that we used for 1-3 night stays at Disneyland, plus a 25 point HHI contract. We’re selling two of our West Coast Hyatt timeshares, and I am toying with the idea of buying more DVC with the proceeds.

My initial thought was to buy AKL, but we love Hilton Head too. We own an every other year Marriott week in Hilton Head already. Today I was wondering if an HHI contract might make more sense for us than AKL:

1. HHI is closer: 5 hr vs 7 hr for Orlando
2. We’d want a more prime season (summer) at HHI than we would want at AKL (May or Sept)
3. HHI as a destination is more frugal, in that the major attraction (the ocean) is free
4. HHI would be cheaper to buy, maybe $30/pt less than AKL. If I bought a 150 pt contract, that difference is around $4500, which is about the same $ amount as paying $2/pt more in dues over 15 years (the duration of time I’d anticipate owning).

The price I’d pay for buying HHI over AKL, as I see it, is that HHI will be worth much less when I resell than AKL. The advantage I’d get is the summer booking preference.

I think it might be a good mix for us. We could vary our stays between peak season HHI, low-ish season AKL and either rent the VGC points to subsidize the other DVC ownerships or take the occasional splurge trip to Disneyland. It might actually be nice to stay at the Grand Californian for 4-5 days, which is something we’ve never done.

So… now I ask the OP: what am I missing, given that you find it hard to believe HHI makes sense for folks as a hone resort?

Not the OP but I'm guessing it's because the dues are so much higher at HH and Vero compared to the rest of the DVC resorts. So the upfront cost isn't bad but the long term cost is higher than elsewhere.

 

[CastAStone]

HH can be unbookable in the warm season if you don’t own.

VB I honestly don’t understand the logic for a new purchase with dues where they are today. It’s very possible to use other resorts’s points to book a room at Vero Beach during times of year where the weather is nice. I get why someone might’ve bought it in the past but not in 2024.

 

[geargrinder]

It makes sense if you don't plan on owning it long enough for the dues to overwhelm the value.

An actual user version of the "strip and flip".

 

[Tatebeck]

It makes sense if you don't plan on owning it long enough for the dues to overwhelm the value.

An actual user version of the "strip and flip".

The problem is there has to be someone willing to buy it at the end of the flip! There may not be many people buying them in the future with their high dues and short expiration

 

[Jlo85]

Vero definitely has availability issues, especially for the beach houses and summer. Also, Vero is just awesome… severely underrated.

People make a big stink about dues, but upfront cost is a lot more important IMO. You can buy double (or triple) the number of points at Vero that you can buy at other resorts. Not as good a value as some other resorts, but it’s not the worst - I show it’s mid-pack from a net present value perspective.

 

[mamatohaleybug]

So… now I ask the OP: what am I missing, given that you find it hard to believe HHI makes sense for folks as a hone resort?

I don't find it hard to believe that HHI makes sense as a home resort (VB maybe). I'm simply asking when it does. For me, when I run the numbers, it doesn't make much sense to buy. The high fees are a turn-off. I have no desire to use the resort in the high season but I do want studios and they are in short supply. I'm tempted frequently to buy there. I love the resort and like you, it's closer (5 hours closer for me). I wouldn't be using it instead of a WDW vacation, but in addition to my WDW vacations. I'm just looking for compelling reasons others have to buy so that I can talk myself into it (or out, as the case might be).

 

[hhisc16]

I don't find it hard to believe that HHI makes sense as a home resort (VB maybe). I'm simply asking when it does. For me, when I run the numbers, it doesn't make much sense to buy. The high fees are a turn-off. I have no desire to use the resort in the high season but I do want studios and they are in short supply. I'm tempted frequently to buy there. I love the resort and like you, it's closer (5 hours closer for me). I wouldn't be using it instead of a WDW vacation, but in addition to my WDW vacations. I'm just looking for compelling reasons others have to buy so that I can talk myself into it (or out, as the case might be).

we bought HHI resale for multiple reasons:
1. we only stay in studios (3 of us)
2. HHI is 3 hours from us
3. We only use these points at hhi
4. hhi is our favorite dvc resort (stayed in all except AUL after VGC/VHD summer 2024 trips)
5. we go during the busy times of year and they are hard to book in studios

 

[Tatebeck]

People make a big stink about dues, but upfront cost is a lot more important IMO. You can buy double (or triple) the number of points at Vero that you can buy at other resorts. Not as good a value as some other resorts, but it’s not the worst - I show it’s mid-pack from a net present value perspective.

The 2042 resorts are the worst when it comes to $ per point/yr + dues. VB being the absolute worst. I wouldn't buy HH or VB at this point unless I wanted to stay there during high season. BW or BC you can make an argument for if you love the area and WDW and you find a good deal. And OKW can be ok if you get an extended contract resale or from Disney direct

 

[geargrinder]

The problem is there has to be someone willing to buy it at the end of the flip! There may not be many people buying them in the future with their high dues and short expiration

Once you strip 3 years of points out of it, it would sell easy if priced under market.

Granted, that margin is decreasing the closer we get to expiration.

I was just trying to make the point that it makes the most financial sense to own HHI for the short term, rather than long.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Vero definitely has availability issues, especially for the beach houses and summer. Also, Vero is just awesome… severely underrated.

People make a big stink about dues, but upfront cost is a lot more important IMO. You can buy double (or triple) the number of points at Vero that you can buy at other resorts. Not as good a value as some other resorts, but it’s not the worst - I show it’s mid-pack from a net present value perspective.

With dues, I think it depends on how long you plan to keep the contract. If you plan to ride out a Vero contract until it expires, the dues are definitely a much larger cost that what you paid up front. If you only want to keep it a few years, then obviously the dues don't factor in as much.

 

[Jlo85]

The 2042 resorts are the worst when it comes to $ per point/yr + dues. VB being the absolute worst.

I look at it from a NPV perspective. Looking at it by point/yr isn’t really a great way IMO - that’s how Disney tries to sell it to people.

With dues, I think it depends on how long you plan to keep the contract. If you plan to ride out a Vero contract until it expires, the dues are definitely a much larger cost that what you paid up front. If you only want to keep it a few years, then obviously the dues don't factor in as much.

Depends on how you look at it. I could buy 100 points at Grand Flo or 300 points at Vero for the same cost. The 300 definitely costs more in dues, but how much money am I saving on vacations? 300 points is a lot of fun

 

[Tatebeck]

I look at it from a NPV perspective. Looking at it by point/yr isn’t really a great way IMO - that’s how Disney tries to sell it to people.

I agree that $ per pt/yr +dues isn't as useful comparing resorts with vastly different expirations due to time value of money. I definitely think it's the easiest way to compare resorts with the same or similar expirations though.

Has anyone done a full NPV calculation for all the resorts and ranked them? Too much math for me personally lol

 

[ClaraOswald]

I look at it from a NPV perspective. Looking at it by point/yr isn’t really a great way IMO - that’s how Disney tries to sell it to people.



Depends on how you look at it. I could buy 100 points at Grand Flo or 300 points at Vero for the same cost. The 300 definitely costs more in dues, but how much money am I saving on vacations? 300 points is a lot of fun

I don't think comparing the price of the Grand Floridian to Vero makes any sense at all for various reasons, but especially because of the expiration date.

 

[CastAStone]

I agree that $ per pt/yr +dues isn't as useful comparing resorts with vastly different expirations due to time value of money. I definitely think it's the easiest way to compare resorts with the same or similar expirations though.

Has anyone done a full NPV calculation for all the resorts and ranked them? Too much math for me personally lol

I did several years ago for the WDW resorts but not offsite. The rate you use matters a LOT.

At the time I found resale OKW extended to be the best value and the only resort that paid out direct vs renting points. I imagine it’s probably still the best value, but I bet a few resorts are right side up vs point rental right now. I also wouldn’t go with this aggressive of a rate anymore, but I did then. See:

Hi all,

Someone posted a question about this and I'm nerdy enough to go check. What's the best deal vs Cash Rates? So I looked at the average price for 2021 and compared it to dues+annual share of buy in costs.

Currently Direct, the answer is either Old Key West or Riviera.

Currently Resale, the answer is also either Old Key West or Riviera.

I'm as surprised as you!

The worst "deal" is generally AKV vs cash rates (which makes sense with the recent surge in AKV pricing and how cheap cash rates are for that resort), but vs renting points it is far and away BCV, which the data suggests probably isn't a deal at all if you buy it direct, it may wind up more expensive than just paying cash!

Anyway here's the data. I ran it direct and resale, and ran each 3 ways: Simple math (Buy in divided by years), accounting only for inflation, and accounting for opportunity cost. Surprisingly it didn't really change a whole lot in terms of rankings.

Some other disclaimers: I excluded Spring Break and Christmas since they wreak havoc on the numbers and frankly don't apply to most buyers. I used 6.5% as the TVM rate. I assumed you pay FULL PRICE for the room in cash - but we all know you will probably get a discount of between 20% and 35% most of the time. So if the savings is less than 20% keep in mind you may actually be losing money vs getting cash discounts. Room prices include tax. I used David's 11 month pricing ($20 for all resorts except $19 for SSR/OKW). These are all calculated on standard view studio prices.

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You’ll need to click through to see the charts.

 

[Cfabar1]

I guess if you want the 11 month window and home ownership at either....

Personally I think there are so many better options in HHI than Disney, but I have also personally not stayed at Disney's HHI, just have been to HHI.

Vero Beach, despite the poor mattresses, is an amazing resort, and a great place to unwind and relax. Great dining options, excellent cast members, it really does a lot of great things and is a great way to spend the time. The dues are high though, and unless you need a beach cottage, are easy to get at the 7 month window - even at peak times. I feel like buying another resort and using the points at VB is a better way to go.