What will it take to end these senseless school shootings?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What about metal detectors? I mean, I know nobody wants them in schools. But would they help catch some of these who slip by with guns and other contraband? My kids are out of school now, but I don’t think I would’ve objected when they were in school.

I think normally the talk is about the costs of them, the implementation of them in buildings and the reworking of access in buildings such that you only enter in entrances with them (often down to 1 or so). I think the noise is normally less about the aesthetics or willingness to utilize them.

I remember when I took my SAT (or ACT can't remember which one it was for because I took both) the school I took it at was located elsewhere in my metro and did have metal detectors (they were not in usage for testing which occurred on the weekend). It's not as if schools don't have them but they are selectively used.

The discussion often comes up with realistically could all the thousands of schools out there add metal detectors. As much as people hate to talk about it who is paying does become relevant somewhere down the road (also staff to run these).

 

[LuvOrlando]

We can do better with children's mental health care, not to state the obvious but 9/11 happened without a single gun. I do think rules are useful though, like people with domestic violence histories should be banned or at least those who have reported such things should get special protections if the abuser is known to have access. If they are in the house and a kid living there is flagged as having emotional issues, plainly to me, there should be extra attention given.

Not really a me issue because personally I'm not into it, but I like the Constitution the way it is and have zero interest in monkeying around with it outside of adding humans to the list it may have left out.

I just looked and there are about 19 million Veterans right now. So considering all the trained Veteran's floating around and the menacing nature of US enemies (there are quite a few overt and hidden in our supposed allies), I think the way things are with all those Vet's having immediate access to defend is a significant deterrent to anyone getting any ideas about this country being a pushover.

 

[Colleen27]

What about metal detectors? I mean, I know nobody wants them in schools. But would they help catch some of these who slip by with guns and other contraband? My kids are out of school now, but I don’t think I would’ve objected when they were in school.

That's a complicated cost/time/benefit question. OHS, where this latest shooting took place, has about 1800 students. Many schools are even larger. How long would it take to get them all through metal detectors every day? How many sets of detectors (and accompanying security staff) would be needed? How much money does that divert from already-stretched school budgets? How easy would it be to bypass by leaving a bag near an unsecured door for later retrieval? That last question is why our schools ruled it out - because while only two sets of doors are used for entry, there are 8 or 10 others that are used as exits only where something could be stashed for retrieval by a student intending to grab it later. So it was seen as a large cost for little actual improvement in security.

 

[bcla]

What about metal detectors? I mean, I know nobody wants them in schools. But would they help catch some of these who slip by with guns and other contraband? My kids are out of school now, but I don’t think I would’ve objected when they were in school.

Quite a few schools these days do have metal detectors. I remember once I saw a student ID for my old school and I dropped it off, and found it was a "closed campus". I saw there was a security check at the front and I couldn't enter without going through it. I thought I saw metal detectors too. And this isn't really any kind of high crime neighborhood. It's just the way the entire district operates. That being said, my kid's elementary school is in the same district and doesn't have anything like that. Neither does the middle school. It looks like something they take more seriously at the high school level.

 

[mrs. magoo]

Some gun laws may help with some things.

• Outlawing high-capacity magazines and bump-stocks may make mass shootings like the one at the Las Vegas music festival more difficult. They won't stop the shootings if someone is determined, but might reduce the casualties.
• Tighter carrying laws (both concealed and open carry) may reduce the number of guns outside of homes.
• Waiting periods for gun purchase may help reduce domestic violence killings by forcing people to calm down.
• Changing school policies to permit unannounced searches of lockers and backpacks mayhelp with school shootings.
  • In this current case, the school had not one, but TWO, meetings with the shooter's family over the two days prior to the shooting -- WHY didn't they search his locker and backpack???

But no amount of law changes will impact criminal situations like the one you witnessed at your school. Criminals don't buy guns legally; they steal them, and they're not going to follow laws anyway.

Oh I know what you are saying. My inner city students go through metal detectors every day. My own children who attended school in the suburbs do not. I think that is why you see more of the shootings in the suburbs rather than the inner city. The Supreme Court allowed searches and seizures with the TLO vs. New Jersey case.

 

[mrs. magoo]

That's a complicated cost/time/benefit question. OHS, where this latest shooting took place, has about 1800 students. Many schools are even larger. How long would it take to get them all through metal detectors every day? How many sets of detectors (and accompanying security staff) would be needed? How much money does that divert from already-stretched school budgets? How easy would it be to bypass by leaving a bag near an unsecured door for later retrieval? That last question is why our schools ruled it out - because while only two sets of doors are used for entry, there are 8 or 10 others that are used as exits only where something could be stashed for retrieval by a student intending to grab it later. So it was seen as a large cost for little actual improvement in security.

We have a 1000 kids file through detectors in 20 minutes everyday. It can be done and should be done. It is done in the inner city but not the suburbs. Also all are doors are alarmed and students can only come in 2 entrances. We have very few kids try to bypass the system.

 

[JimMIA]

The Supreme Court allowed searches and seizures with the TLO vs. New Jersey case.

Right, but how many schools do it? Specifically, why did Oxford HS NOT do it considering the information they had.

DD is in college now, but her HS had no lockers at all, and a policy that backpacks could be searched, even randomly, at any time. She never got searched, but they did occasional random searches.

 

[EMom]

I skipped to the end, so maybe this has already been mentioned. I do not believe guns are the problem. People are. If guns were the problem, then you would’ve had similar school shootings when I was in school, and umpteen vehicles (mostly the trucks) in the parking lot had guns in gun racks. No one brought their guns inside, and they were only used for hunting. Many families I knew had gun racks in the living room. Again, you didn’t touch them and you certainly didn’t use them on people.

We must figure out why human life is considered so cheap and disposable these days, and why these students view shooting up a school as a the thing to do. Because it didn’t used to be that way, and we had plenty of guns. BTW, we also had plenty of bullying. That’s nothing new. It’s easy to blame guns. It’s harder to fix PEOPLE.

 

[sam_gordon]

We did not really want them at airports, sports arenas, etc., but, they are a part of life today. I have never minded walking through a metal detector, or being further scanned and searched. Part of life today. It's not infringing on my rights at all.

You're right. It's not infringing on your rights, IMO because you're going to those places of your own free will.

And we also have large schools (2000+ kids) with metal detectors, but ours does not.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I skipped to the end, so maybe this has already been mentioned. I do not believe guns are the problem. People are. If guns were the problem, then you would’ve had similar school shootings when I was in school, and umpteen vehicles (mostly the trucks) in the parking lot had guns in gun racks. No one brought their guns inside, and they were only used for hunting. Many families I knew had gun racks in the living room. Again, you didn’t touch them and you certainly didn’t use them on people.

We must figure out why human life is considered so cheap and disposable these days, and why these students view shooting up a school as a the thing to do. Because it didn’t used to be that way, and we had plenty of guns. BTW, we also had plenty of bullying. That’s nothing new. It’s easy to blame guns. It’s harder to fix PEOPLE.

Today you’d come out and they’d all be gone!

 

[HeatherC]

I skipped to the end, so maybe this has already been mentioned. I do not believe guns are the problem. People are. If guns were the problem, then you would’ve had similar school shootings when I was in school, and umpteen vehicles (mostly the trucks) in the parking lot had guns in gun racks. No one brought their guns inside, and they were only used for hunting. Many families I knew had gun racks in the living room. Again, you didn’t touch them and you certainly didn’t use them on people.

We must figure out why human life is considered so cheap and disposable these days, and why these students view shooting up a school as a the thing to do. Because it didn’t used to be that way, and we had plenty of guns. BTW, we also had plenty of bullying. That’s nothing new. It’s easy to blame guns. It’s harder to fix PEOPLE.

I agree with a lot of what you said and the spirit in which it was intended. But guns are the problem too. If kids didn’t have access to them, this wouldn’t happen. We have to limit their access somehow and some way.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

How do you limit their access, not allow persons living with minor children to purchase guns? Or strict liability with high penalties for parents or guardians (or any gun owners) when a child uses their gun to commit a school shooting?

 

[waltonmkb]

We must figure out why human life is considered so cheap and disposable these days, and why these students view shooting up a school as a the thing to do. Because it didn’t used to be that way, and we had plenty of guns. BTW, we also had plenty of bullying. That’s nothing new. It’s easy to blame guns. It’s harder to fix PEOPLE.

I think the creation of social media has contributed. Kids growing up today have no clue how to have real connections with other humans and I think that is why it is so easy for some to so callously commit murder. Humans need physical connection. There are so many physiological actions going on when humans interact that we are not even aware of and kids are missing out on these developments in their brains. I know I'm generalizing and a lot of kids can handle social media, but I also know a lot of kids that the majority of their interactions are over the internet.

 

[sam_gordon]

I agree (and doubt anyone will disagree) that we need to come up with some kind of solution. However, that solution needs to reasonable and realistic. Saying "ban all guns", IMO is neither reasonable nor realistic. I think to find the solution though is going to require finding what the actual problem is. Do we really think if the guns weren't available these kids wouldn't have acted out in SOME way? As has been mentioned, guns were available in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when many of us were growing up and there wasn't the plethora of shootings.

Is it Hollywood or video games? Maybe. But how do you keep kids from seeing the movies or playing the games? Even limiting sales to adults doesn't realistically help.
Is it Social Media? Maybe. But how do you fight that? From what I'm reading this kid had posted on social media some disturbing things and it got ignored. Does a school official need to go through everyone's social media?
Is it bullying? Maybe. Bullying has gone on for decades. Yes, it needs to stop. Anyone have any ideas? Again they need to be reasonable and realistic.

PP (sorry, don't remember who) brought up an interesting point about the socio-economic makeup of most of these shooters.

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree (and doubt anyone will disagree) that we need to come up with some kind of solution. However, that solution needs to reasonable and realistic. Saying "ban all guns", IMO is neither reasonable nor realistic. I think to find the solution though is going to require finding what the actual problem is. Do we really think if the guns weren't available these kids wouldn't have acted out in SOME way? As has been mentioned, guns were available in the 70s, 80s, and 90s when many of us were growing up and there wasn't the plethora of shootings.

Is it Hollywood or video games? Maybe. But how do you keep kids from seeing the movies or playing the games? Even limiting sales to adults doesn't realistically help.
Is it Social Media? Maybe. But how do you fight that? From what I'm reading this kid had posted on social media some disturbing things and it got ignored. Does a school official need to go through everyone's social media?
Is it bullying? Maybe. Bullying has gone on for decades. Yes, it needs to stop. Anyone have any ideas? Again they need to be reasonable and realistic.

PP (sorry, don't remember who) brought up an interesting point about the socio-economic makeup of most of these shooters.

But why aren’t kids in Europe killing each other?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

They are, although they are not using guns.

 

[sam_gordon]

But why aren’t kids in Europe killing each other?

I don't know. Access to government sponsored healthcare? <ducks and runs>

 

[pahoben]

I think the creation of social media has contributed. Kids growing up today have no clue how to have real connections with other humans and I think that is why it is so easy for some to so callously commit murder. Humans need physical connection. There are so many physiological actions going on when humans interact that we are not even aware of and kids are missing out on these developments in their brains. I know I'm generalizing and a lot of kids can handle social media, but I also know a lot of kids that the majority of their interactions are over the internet.

I am not sure the negative impacts of the Internet are limited to children. For the first time in human evolution adults are subject to constant messaging from people and organizations that hope to have some impact on mass behavior and package the message in a clever manner and at low cost.

 

[cheryl.UK]

Well, from a Brit's perspective, the answer seems easy. Stop buying guns, guys! Every time I read about one of these tragedies, the guns are either their parents' or have been bought for them by a parent. If you don't have a gun in the house... That being said, over here, we seem to have an epidemic of young people killing each other with knives.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I want to say here also, I have owned 3 guns over my lifetime.

I purchased a Mossberg 22 250c in my late teens, target practice. I purchased a Remington 12 ga. 870 pump shotgun when I was in my early 20's to go hunting. I then found out I did not like killing animals just to show I could kill them by blowing their brains out. I purchased a Smith & Wesson 38 cal. Combat Masterpiece Model 15 for 'protection' (not from Marie ) when we got married, 50 years ago. I got rid of the revolver probably 5 years after I got it, gave it to the police department, after I realized that having a gun for 'protection' was not the wisest of ideas . Same with the shotgun, a few years later. I still have the 22, will be bringing that to the police department soon. First I have to find it.