What is the solution to insane crowds & wait times???

[jennyq87]

Less APs. Sorry but true. Perhaps that is their plan.

That's what I was going to say. Unfortunately, you'd have to take away the things that make it (more) affordable for people to go: APs, bringing in your own food/drinks, etc.

 

[Smugpugmug]

You really think APs are the problem? Have you ever talked to an AP holder most are only in the park for a couple hours at a time and barely try to maximize rides.

Unfortunately those types of AP holders are the ones Chapek want less of in the parks. Disney would much rather have a vacationer who will buy a ton of merchandise, Photopass, Genie+/ILL and all other add ons crowding the parks than an AP that is in the park for 3 hours and doesn't buy anything.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Higher prices don't seem to do much. It will take an economic crash, terrorist attack, or pandemic.

Wow - I'll take elbow-to-elbow crowds over that gloom and doom..........

 

[bffdisney]

I do feel like crowds will level out in the next 2 years or so. You have a LOT of "revenge travel" going on right not and staffing and offerings are still not back to normal. I agree with another poster that a 5th gate will not help at all and could actually make it worse for a while.

 

[RoseGold]

If APs come back, I expect them to be heavily blacked out, like no summer or no weekends or both. Or I'd love to see an on-site stay only AP. That one would work great for me.

As an AP, I don't even try to do the park commando thing anymore, it's too stressful. Rope drop, go back to the hotel. Go see fireworks, maybe just go for dinner and Soarin'. If APs are eliminated, I'll just pop in for a Halloween party in a couple years. The current crowds and G+ situation doesn't work for me at all.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

I think it's some combination of those things and the fact that Disney is disenfranchising so many of their loyal long-time guests. The crowds right now are the response to pent-up travel frustrations. There's a cliff coming and Disney is likely to drive right off of it.

This is my thought too. People keep saying, "oh but the parks are still full so they're doing something right." NO. People are still coming DESPITE Disney's errors. They're coming out of pent up demand for travel, and out of pure HOPE that despite the issues, Disney will actually still be magic. People are coming and hoping to be proven wrong. I am going in a few weeks, and am hoping that myself.

The cliff will come once this initial surge dies down. Once the people who haven't been to Disney since pre-pandemic come back, and potentially see that things maybe aren't as great as they remember. Once, maybe, they HAVE been proven wrong and they see that their hope that things would still be wonderful has been displaced.

Now, I AM hoping to be proven wrong, and maybe I will be. But if enough people aren't convinced, yes, that cliff will be coming. It will be interesting to see how it plays out if or when that does occur.

 

[JZCubed]

In my opinion, there are only three things that would truly reduce Disney crowds and wait times:

1. A massive downturn in the economy.

2. Even HIGHER prices at the resort.

3. A legitimate full sized fifth gate.

What else do you think could actually help?

Disney is doing it right now by creating discontent amongst seemingly too many of their most loyal customers.

I used to ‘talk up’ Disney to friends & family.

That ended with Genie (and a positive experience at Universal).

Sure, it takes time for this form of marketing to have the negative impact on crowds, so the trend towards ‘too crowded’ will not end anytime soon (sorry).

The coming recession will likely have a short-term impact, and then Universals new Park will be the catalyst for Disney to rethink their change from being customer-focused to greedy.

FWIW, we commit to spending 4-hours in the Parks and then do other add-on things that cost my family even more money. In other words, we are the high-end (DVC) guests Disney wants. But we can no longer count on Disney to provide a stress-free VACATION at any price.

 

[RoseGold]

Disney is doing it right now by creating discontent amongst seemingly too many of their most loyal customers.

I used to ‘talk up’ Disney to friends & family.

I'm the crazy Disney person too. All the recent and upcoming trips I've planned are intentionally one and done. It's too expensive, and the experience too difficult, even with me doing the difficult parts.

My people went, because they couldn't do what they wanted to do with travel restrictions. They spent plenty. They bought the lightsabers and the Mickey bars, but they won't be back. Just like Chapek wanted. Higher quality guest.

 

[jimmymc]

Controversial opinion, but I was in the parks this past weekend, and I think the reservation system is working. All the parks were sold out, but the crowd levels felt reasonable, like an average summer day in the past. Between Genie+ and one ILL I was able to get on every attraction I wanted to, some of them multiple times, and never waited more than 45 minutes. I realize it sucks for cast members and APs, but as a vacationer from out of state it ended up being a net improvement to the trip.

With the return of character hugs and most of the shows, I think Disney is pretty much back to the way it was in 2019. We may have been spoiled for part of 2020 when the crowds were just crazy low, but being there this past weekend felt like a 2019 trip. Long lines but not the 4 hour nightmare FoP used to have, and some congested walkways but definitely better than a holiday weekend back in the pre-covid.

But if you don't think this way, I definitely encourage checking out other parks. I bought a Universal AP last year because it's so much cheaper and gives you better benefits than Disney. AP hotel rates are also much more generous, like staying at Portofino for $250 a night during the week. And if I lived in the area, I would definitely have a Busch Gardens/Sea World combo pass. 3 days at Universal, 1 each at Sea World and BG, and 2 days at the beach or some of the smaller attractions is a great Orlando trip.

 

[wilkydelts]

Unfortunately those types of AP holders are the ones Chapek want less of in the parks. Disney would much rather have a vacationer who will buy a ton of merchandise, Photopass, Genie+/ILL and all other add ons crowding the parks than an AP that is in the park for 3 hours and doesn't buy anything.

Everything you said is correct but doesn't related to the premise being proposed. The OP asked what is going to cause things to change and some people said stop selling AP's. I was pointing out that APs are not the problem in regards to crowds and wait times based on what I said above.

 

[Orsino]

Less APs. Sorry but true. Perhaps that is their plan.

If you look at Genie+ from an AP perspective, it has an anti-AP component to it as well. AP pays one low price for so much access, but Genie+ creates an added payment for AP or reduces the impact of AP on lines for those who don't pay.

You really think APs are the problem? Have you ever talked to an AP holder most are only in the park for a couple hours at a time and barely try to maximize rides.

Maybe. But AP with FP+ was probably killer.

I wondered during the pandemic reopening whether or not Disney would try a two ticketed times per day: AM ticket vs PM ticket. They sort of do this on a small scale with After Hours tickets already. I doubt people would accept this, but as someone who enjoys half-days, I wonder if splitting demand in half would improve things. Sort of a, "yes you can only be in the park for 6 hours, but the lines will be much shorter!"

 

[Smugpugmug]

Everything you said is correct but doesn't related to the premise being proposed. The OP asked what is going to cause things to change and some people said stop selling AP's. I was pointing out that APs are not the problem in regards to crowds and wait times based on what I said above.

Maybe they're not a problem for rides but APs are definitely an issue for crowds. They're the reason why you see so many people on these boards and on other Disney discussion sites say to avoid Epcot on any weekend, especially when there's a festival going on. I am an AP holder that would often go to Epcot on the weekends and while the rides minus the big 3 (Test Track, Frozen, Remy) were reasonable wait wise, the World Showcase was a nightmare in terms of waits for food and crowds.

I wouldn't be shocked if or when Disney brings back APs they'll be dramatically changed so that they have WAY more restrictions than before.

I wondered during the pandemic reopening whether or not Disney would try a two ticketed times per day: AM ticket vs PM ticket. They sort of do this on a small scale with After Hours tickets already. I doubt people would accept this, but as someone who enjoys half-days, I wonder if splitting demand in half would improve things. Sort of a, "yes you can only be in the park for 6 hours, but the lines will be much shorter!"

The Disney parks in Japan have an after 4 pm ticket or at least they did before Covid and it was fairly cheaper than the full day ticket. Now I see that they have a full day ticket and a ticket where you can only enter the park after 12 pm. Those parks also don't have park hopping, like at all. I wonder too how that would go down if WDW started selling a ticket like that.

 

[SteveH]

I stand by the philosophy from the movie War Games...



We've decided not to play the games Disney is playing, hopefully one day Disney will have learned how to manage things without price gouging or separating classes of guests by how much they can pay (looking at you Extended Evening Theme Park Hours & Disney Genie Individual Lightning Lane).

 

[Alice in Okie-land]

Less APs. Sorry but true. Perhaps that is their plan.

Would be interesting to see stats by day/week/month of % of park-goers who are AP Holders vs ticketed, Florida residents vs other states vs international.

I imagine a lot of the current overload we are seeing during traditionally “slower” times in 2022 is an influx of International guests who put off Disney for 2yrs due to the recent unpleasantness

 

[revdon64]

This is my thought too. People keep saying, "oh but the parks are still full so they're doing something right." NO. People are still coming DESPITE Disney's errors. They're coming out of pent up demand for travel, and out of pure HOPE that despite the issues, Disney will actually still be magic. People are coming and hoping to be proven wrong. I am going in a few weeks, and am hoping that myself.

The cliff will come once this initial surge dies down. Once the people who haven't been to Disney since pre-pandemic come back, and potentially see that things maybe aren't as great as they remember. Once, maybe, they HAVE been proven wrong and they see that their hope that things would still be wonderful has been displaced.

Now, I AM hoping to be proven wrong, and maybe I will be. But if enough people aren't convinced, yes, that cliff will be coming. It will be interesting to see how it plays out if or when that does occur.

This was us on our last trip in March. We were hoping that things might come close to past experiences. It wasn't even close. Unless things change drastically, we're done with Disney.

 

[Lilsia]

I think that it will calm down a bit in a couple of years. This year, especially, is insane because so many people went almost 2 years without going on vacation. Travelling out of the Country is not really doable right now, or is too much of a hassle for some. We saw a lot of first time visitors on our last trip. I have never seen so many paper maps out as I did this last February. LOL Nobody likes the crowds, but I wouldn't be saying that I will never go back because it happens to be busy this year.

 

[john7994]

Controversial opinion, but I was in the parks this past weekend, and I think the reservation system is working. All the parks were sold out, but the crowd levels felt reasonable, like an average summer day in the past. Between Genie+ and one ILL I was able to get on every attraction I wanted to, some of them multiple times, and never waited more than 45 minutes. I realize it sucks for cast members and APs, but as a vacationer from out of state it ended up being a net improvement to the trip.

With the return of character hugs and most of the shows, I think Disney is pretty much back to the way it was in 2019. We may have been spoiled for part of 2020 when the crowds were just crazy low, but being there this past weekend felt like a 2019 trip. Long lines but not the 4 hour nightmare FoP used to have, and some congested walkways but definitely better than a holiday weekend back in the pre-covid.

But if you don't think this way, I definitely encourage checking out other parks. I bought a Universal AP last year because it's so much cheaper and gives you better benefits than Disney. AP hotel rates are also much more generous, like staying at Portofino for $250 a night during the week. And if I lived in the area, I would definitely have a Busch Gardens/Sea World combo pass. 3 days at Universal, 1 each at Sea World and BG, and 2 days at the beach or some of the smaller attractions is a great Orlando trip.

Your ride experience actually was very relatable to my experience back in January (even with the Marathon Weekend crowd), I am going back to WDW in mid-May, and I am looking forward to it. I have all my park reservations, ADRs, even nabbed a preview of GOTG, and staying at 2 resorts that we have never booked before (via DVC).

I think you are are correct that more and more things are coming back online, which may help to "stretch" the crowds a bit further. Since I am already seeing parks not available on the reservation system during our visit, I will test your theory on what the crowds actually feel like with that in mind.

 

[greeneyedchick]

In my opinion, there are only three things that would truly reduce Disney crowds and wait times:

1. A massive downturn in the economy.

2. Even HIGHER prices at the resort.

3. A legitimate full sized fifth gate.

What else do you think could actually help?

Longer hours. Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios should be open from 7am-1am. That's the least they could do given the price increases the past few years. Disney used to have longer hours than they do now. They should also allow park hopping all day.

 

[mom2rtk]

The free fastpass gave ALL guests the ability to be spread out throughout the day (and on the staffing side allowed Disney to have a sense of which park and where people would be within the park without a reservations system.)

Given that G+ costs money, it’s used by considerably less people and those that do not pay are relegated to standby.

For those that do use G+ many of the rides (at HS for example) that they’d want are already taken by late morning so they can’t effectively use it on three rides (or more) all the time like fastpass enabled people to do.

Without a means, or a plan that spreads out all guests, they’ve effectively created gluts and bottlenecks.

Not sure if this will ever go away unless the system to reserve rides, or a strategy to control the flow of people once in the parks is re-worked?

Revenue generation trumps crowd concerns.

 

[AnnabelleTheTalkingTree]

This was us on our last trip in March. We were hoping that things might come close to past experiences. It wasn't even close. Unless things change drastically, we're done with Disney.

Yeah this is my point. What's happening right now is not the barometer on which we can gauge future consumer interest in Disney parks. At this point I would compare it to trying a new food - you don't know if you're going to like it, you don't know if you'll ever eat it again, but the only way to find out is to buy it and try it. That's not a guarantee you'll ever buy it again though.