What do you think school will be like in the fall? UPDATE page 29 for Mass.

[barkley]

one teacher with same kids all day,

How would the same teacher all day work in a middle or a high school where kids change classes and teachers are specialized for different subjects?

They can’t. Teachers are only certified in certain subjects so a History teacher can’t teach Chemistry, etc..
This is a nightmare.

depending on how their credentialing is set up they COULD do it but it would be a great disservice to the students and the teacher's -

in some states traditional elementary teachers are given k-12 multi subject credentials but can only teach muliple subjects in a single self contained classroom (so basicly what you see in k-5th or 6th). when i got my k-12 back in the 80's in california i was told that i would never see anyone with one ever teaching middle or high school b/c noone did 1 room schoolhouses anymore. surprise, surprise-both my kids ended up being taught in k-8 one room schoolhouses by someone with an identical credential to mine.


so........if the districts pushed on it-they could move people with elementary credentials into those middle/high school classrooms and be within the law. given the situation though-some states may pass emergency provisions that permit single subject credential holders to teach multiple subjects.

 

[Colleen27]

So, keeping desks 6 feet apart and wearing masks is something to complain about? Doing online learning is something people complain about?

So, what exactly are people proposing as a viable alternative?

ETA: At least MA has some requirements in place. (Or are those just suggestions that are being complained about)? In California, the state supe just issued new guidelines and EVERYthing is a suggestion. We are still at level Ambiguous.

Ambiguous leaves room for local decision-making based on local conditions, though, so I'd argue that's preferable to absolutes when dealing with a situation that is so rooted in local conditions. Especially in larger states like California (or Michigan, where I am).

Our state hasn't offered guidelines yet, but to us, what is happening in Mass. is an absolute worst case scenario and exactly what we're hoping not to see from our governor. Our county has had 0 to 3 new cases per day for around three weeks now, even though the social/political climate is such that mask compliance is pretty hit or miss and we're reopening businesses pretty rapidly now. It would be a bit ridiculous for the governor to look at the case totals in Detroit, or in the emerging hot spots in the Grand Rapids area, and use them to demand our already cash-strapped rural school districts figure out how to cut every class into thirds. No one has the funding or the space to triple the number of classrooms and teachers to take classrooms of 30-35 down to fit the new guidelines!

And that's just the practical, concrete problem with it. I also have very deep reservations about the effect that sort of school environment would have on kids' mental health, especially for early elementary grades and special needs students who don't fully understand why they're suddenly being disciplined every time they try to talk to, play with, or hug a friend. Or why their classrooms are suddenly stripped of toys and learning games and manipulatives, or why they have to sit at their desks even through lunch and recess. Can you imagine being the teacher in a kindergarten classroom under those conditions? You'd basically be tasked with training a generation of kids to not only avoid but fear the very social contact that is such a fundamental part of preschool and early grades learning.

The bigger issue I see is that the private schools will have the flexibility to open as normal. When people start jumping ship (and we are considering it) the entire public school system is going to collapse. Is that better than a small percentage of the population dying? I don't think so.

Will they? In our state, the initial closure order applied to both public and private and we're expecting any reopening rules to do so as well. Which is unfortunate, since DD goes to such a small school that we don't really have to make any modifications other than rearranging desks - we only have 47 students, K through 8, for the fall and our largest class size is looking like it'll be 9.

 

[DLgal]

Thankfully, the CA guidelines are NOT mandates. I hope our school district is smarter than to just adhere to this guidance blindly. Our city has something like 0.06% of the population affected by this virus. It's a statistical non issue.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Thankfully, the CA guidelines are NOT mandates. I hope our school district is smarter than to just adhere to this guidance blindly. Our city has something like 0.06% of the population affected by this virus. It's a statistical non issue.

Totally agree - hope you are right. FWIW - our school district sent questionnaires to all parents and kids. Everyone I know was very insistent that schools are opened with no restrictions. Really hoping that common sense takes a front seat between now and Sept. Anything else would be a disaster.

 

[justafigment27]

I can’t even wrap my brain around the Massachusetts guidelines - they are so ridiculous that it seems like it must be some kind of joke. It seems like a jumble of fantasy world CYA ideas that are not based on reality. I am (almost) speechless ... a committee of grown, educated individuals came up with that as a FEASIBLE plan? For real??!! Or was it meant to be an impossible plan and a way to basically say “no in person school” without actually saying that? I REALLY hope other states don’t see this as a blueprint.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's encouraging to see so many colleges saying they're going to be back with in person classes. Honestly, I feel like they were dragged into this with the realization that they were going to lose too many students if they didn't. But perhaps they can lead the way out of this.

 

[godisney14]

Not exactly. I think the belief there is that it can continue for everyone as normal, no matter age or risk, if said individual is willing to take that risk. It’s up to each person to make that choice, and yes, it can be a hard one.

Tell me about it.
It is pretty inconvenient when I have to make special treats and lunches that do not have any peanut or peanut butter because of the one or two kids in class that are allergic. The entire class can’t have anything containing those ingredients. Those kids at risk should stay home, too, if they don’t want to take that risk.

 

[barkley]

It's encouraging to see so many colleges saying they're going to be back with in person classes. Honestly, I feel like they were dragged into this with the realization that they were going to lose too many students if they didn't. But perhaps they can lead the way out of this.

not the case near us, many are still trying to decide and those that have already committed to in person have conceded that financial considerations are the compelling motivators. local state university-online only for fall 2020 at minimum, both local private universities-on campus. local community colleges-still somewhat a wait and see depending on local case counts (our cases continue to climb).

most all the california state university classes will be online, handful of their community colleges and the u.c. system will partially open only if certain criteria in cases/testing is met.

it would be nice to think everything will be back to old normal in less than 2 months (when some of our campuses start sessions) but we can't even reopen some basic public services like libraries and non essential court services until our numbers drop dramatically for extended periods of time.

 

[mom2rtk]

Tell me about it.
It is pretty inconvenient when I have to make special treats and lunches that do not have any peanut or peanut butter because of the one or two kids in class that are allergic. The entire class can’t have anything containing those ingredients. Those kids at risk should stay home, too, if they don’t want to take that risk.

I think asking the class to forego peanut snacks is a little different from asking them to forego in person schooling.

Look, I get that it's not fair. But none of this is fair. These are extraordinary times that might require extraordinary remedies.

 

[jlwhitney]

UPDATE for Massachusetts

My daughter is a teacher here in Massachusetts. She just received word that the state has just released guidelines for the fall. What will be required are social distancing of six feet at all times (desks 6 ft. Apart, 6ft apart entering and exiting or moving through the buildings, face masks at all times, one teacher with same kids all day, certain protocols for sick kids, etc.., smaller class sizes and reduced staff to student ratios, etc..

‘We are sitting here thinking they will be doing online learning in September if this is the case. How any school will be able to make this happen is beyond me. For starters, there just isn’t enough floor space...even with split shifts.

You can see the guidelines on wcvb.com. It is not letting me link the article for reason.

For the most part they are just considered guidelines but each school needs to work to come up with the best possible solution. All I can say is there is a huge population of kids that need full time school or we will lose them. Communities and schools can't forget that.

 

[jlwhitney]

High risk kids and high risk teachers stay home and distance learn together. No assemblies. More hand washing. Campaigns to get people to stay home if they are sick. No masks and no excessive social distancing.

The vast majority of kids and people under 65 (pretty much all teachers and staff) would be fine if they got Covid-19. It doesn't make sense to withhold education and social interaction from a whole generation of school children. I say let it ride.

The bigger issue I see is that the private schools will have the flexibility to open as normal. When people start jumping ship (and we are considering it) the entire public school system is going to collapse. Is that better than a small percentage of the population dying? I don't think so.

Public schools are also going to lose funding when people jump ship to homeschooling. I know quite a few that will based on what the schools decide to do.

The numbers of illnesses and deaths in people under 18 in no way justifies heavyhanded restrictions on schools going forward. Most of these guidelines are absolutely unnecessary. Let the teachers wear masks if they feel comfortable with doing so, but let the kids return to school as it was before. No masks. No social distancing. Recess, okay. Assemblies, maybe modify those or hold them outdoors only. Maybe eat lunch in the classroom rather than a large cafeteria, etc. Give every class a gallon jug of hand sanitizer and require students to use it at the start and end of class, or in elementary schools, every hour or half hour. Whatever. Have a zero tolerance policy on sick kids coming to school. Make the attendance policy more lenient, or allow for distance learning when kids need to miss several days due to illness. No more of this "you only get 10 absences per year" nonsense. Let parents choose distance learning if THEY feel it is better for their family.

I agree. Kids need to have the option to go back.

 

[DisneyElite4]

Tell me about it.
It is pretty inconvenient when I have to make special treats and lunches that do not have any peanut or peanut butter because of the one or two kids in class that are allergic. The entire class can’t have anything containing those ingredients. Those kids at risk should stay home, too, if they don’t want to take that risk.

I don’t think these two things are comparable. All the parents I know of kids with allergies make their own adjustments - those kids have to sit at a peanut-free section of the cafeteria at lunch, so it doesn’t alter what other kids can pack or what the cafeteria serves. Or class parties at our school, the parents can send in whatever they want and the allergy child usually misses out, so nobody is being asked to adjust for one or two children. (However, I personally think that sucks, and I always send in treats for any allergy specific kids in my kids classrooms.)

 

[DisneyElite4]

I think asking the class to forego peanut snacks is a little different from asking them to forego in person schooling.

Look, I get that it's not fair. But none of this is fair. These are extraordinary times that might require extraordinary remedies.

I think the poster isn’t against kids going back to school - he/she is frustrated that people aren’t on board with all of the suggested changes some states are offering as guidelines for reopening (masks, social distancing at all times, etc.).

But comparing the very small changes we make for kids with peanut allergies to the massive changes of these guidelines is far-fetched.

 

[Darcy03231]

I'm really glad I don't have school age children!

We've had our neighbor's kindergartener since school closed in March. We all thought it would just be for a few weeks. This is her last week at our house as she starts summer camp next Monday. We also had the toddler for 5 weeks in the middle when daycare closed. DH never thought he'd be spending his retirement doing child care.

We did let the neighbors know that they need to start planning for another solution if school doesn't go back to normal in the fall. Kindergarten was ok while I've been working from home (but a lot of work for me!), but my office is starting to transition us back in and DH is not computer literate enough to take on remote learning.

 

[KittyKitty]

One rumor here is high school on line, maybe middle school too, elementary go 1/2 day, morning or afternoon, with the teachers all day, splitting the population in the classroom.
This would be rough on homes with adults working, but the schools have to make decisions based on keeping the students/staff safe.
This summer stats will probably give a clue on what is happening with the virus.

 

[DisneyElite4]

I'm really glad I don't have school age children!

We've had our neighbor's kindergartener since school closed in March. We all thought it would just be for a few weeks. This is her last week at our house as she starts summer camp next Monday. We also had the toddler for 5 weeks in the middle when daycare closed. DH never thought he'd be spending his retirement doing child care.

We did let the neighbors know that they need to start planning for another solution if school doesn't go back to normal in the fall. Kindergarten was ok while I've been working from home (but a lot of work for me!), but my office is starting to transition us back in and DH is not computer literate enough to take on remote learning.

That’s so awesome that you offered to help your neighbor out with childcare! You’re a saint!

One rumor here is high school on line, maybe middle school too, elementary go 1/2 day, morning or afternoon, with the teachers all day, splitting the population in the classroom.
This would be rough on homes with adults working, but the schools have to make decisions based on keeping the students/staff safe.
This summer stats will probably give a clue on what is happening with the virus.

I agree, but in working parents defense, it would be beneficial if schools could let parents know ASAP so they can begin to set up childcare if needed. That can take a long time to arrange.

 

[scoutie]

As a teacher, I can tell you that from what I've read, these plans are not sustainable. My solution is to sanitize and wash hands more, but otherwise have school as normal. Anybody who is worried or has underlying health issues can be homeschooled through elearning. The districts are equipped to handle this. The virus is said to not affect kids, daycares have been open this whole time without a spike, sports have resumed, and many states have had a month of school without an increase in cases. I know that I will probably get raked over the coals for this reply, but if opening schools means opening like this, I don't see this working out at all.

 

[siren0119]

I agree, but in working parents defense, it would be beneficial if schools could let parents know ASAP so they can begin to set up childcare if needed. That can take a long time to arrange.

Assuming they can even afford it. I know we cannot afford to pay someone to be with my kids and monitor their schoolwork at home while my husband and I work outside of the house. My current job has given me a lot of flexibility to work from home, but our company is being sold in September and I am not confident that I'll be allowed to work from home after the transition.

 

[barkley]

class parties at our school, the parents can send in whatever they want and the allergy child usually misses out, so nobody is being asked to adjust for one or two children. (However, I personally think that sucks, and I always send in treats for any allergy specific kids in my kids classrooms.)

wow. the school districts surrounding us in both states we've lived in disallowed parent choice on whole class snacks/party food years ago. all snacks have to follow a specific criteria including NOTHING homemade. one district near us has it down to a science-all baked goods can only be store bought from one of the 2 in store bakeries at the 2 grocery stores nearest them b/c each term the teachers provide them with all the individual allergy information for their individual classrooms so when you walk in you go to the counter, tell them which teacher your kid has, they pull out a 3 ring binder to look up that class and either take a special order or tell you which of their prepacked items meet that classroom's criteria.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think the poster isn’t against kids going back to school - he/she is frustrated that people aren’t on board with all of the suggested changes some states are offering as guidelines for reopening (masks, social distancing at all times, etc.).

But comparing the very small changes we make for kids with peanut allergies to the massive changes of these guidelines is far-fetched.

I don't think it's so much that they're against the guidelines. They just don't think the guidelines are possible to follow.

Like another poster said, I'm so happy not to have school age kids. My youngest is in college. And as I said, I think colleges are being forced to lead the way here. Which is fair since nobody is forced to go to college and because college students are more likely to follow the needed guidelines.