Were changes to minimum point levels for Direct Member Benefits announced in advance?

[tommcp516]

I was thinking that they might raise the min number for Direct benefits from 150 to 200 on March 3 along wirh the new VGF-2 sale. In the past when the min number was raised, was there an annoucement ahead of time to give people one last chance to purchase at the lower min number?

 

[dvc lover 1970]

I cannot see them ever raising it above 150. At 200 points that increases the cost to 40000. That's alot just for a blue card.

 

[Spork24]

The last time I did a DVC tour, (its been about a decade) they pushed the 160 Point tier as a good entry level tier. Not sure if that is still part of their sales pitch, but you would never want to do anything that would hurt your new sales. That's why I think they chose the 150 Point mark, and I agree with DVC lover that they are unlikely to raise it further.

 

[tommcp516]

I cannot see them ever raising it above 150. At 200 points that increases the cost to 40000. That's alot just for a blue card.

We watched a lot of the past DVC Fan videos on Youtube before we purchased, and I was struck by the mention of just 75 points needed for member benefits back in late 2019.

I'm thinking a potential upcoming raise in the minimum benefit levels might be behind the recent increase in ROFR buyback activity, along with a possible announcement of more direct member benefits coming back following the return of Moonlight Magic. Disney might be buying up so many ROFR contracts so they can roll out a new direct benefit like the return of annual passes (at lower prices for direct DVC members) but with a new higher min level of points to qualify. It could allow them to cut into the resale market and drive more direct sales.

 

[wfjny]

The last time I did a DVC tour, (its been about a decade) they pushed the 160 Point tier as a good entry level tier. Not sure if that is still part of their sales pitch, but you would never want to do anything that would hurt your new sales. That's why I think they chose the 150 Point mark, and I agree with DVC lover that they are unlikely to raise it further.

If my memory serves me correct (and I could be wrong), when we bought, the "suggested minimum" was 160, as that would transfer as a week at RCI.

Having said that, I do know one person that bought 450 points, with the explicit reasoning that they would pass it to their three sons at 150 points each.

 

[Cyberc1978]

A reason to increase the minimum buyin would be to push people towards the larger rooms like 1Br or 2br as the studios are always booked fast and first.

However with the extra new studios coming at VGF there are plenty of them and therefore there is no need to push people just yet.

 

[Brian Noble]

My guess is that before too much longer we will see tiers of membership introduced (with escalating perks/benefits) rather than just continuing to raise the minimum.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My guess is that before too much longer we will see tiers of membership introduced (with escalating perks/benefits) rather than just continuing to raise the minimum.

That would drive me to buy more, FOTHPO and all (Fear Of The Hoi Polloi).

 

[Sandisw]

They have always given notice. I think having it at 150 is where it will stay for at least a few years.

 

[Matty B13]

Yep, there will be blue card members, gold card members, and platinum card members soon...... problem for DVC is that they would have to guarantee benefits at that point though. That might actually backfire on them though.

 

[Flynn's Gal]

From what I can tell in this article on DVC Fan regarding the last increase, there was some notice from guides before it was announced officially. If I'm reading the article correctly with the update on 6/3/21, the date of effectiveness was the same date of publishing it on DVC's website. I've only been a member since Sept 2020 and the minimum has increased twice in that time.
https://dvcfan.com/2021/06/03/rumor... learned that Disney,Thursday, June 3rd, 2021.

 

[Marionnette]

I cannot see them ever raising it above 150. At 200 points that increases the cost to 40000. That's alot just for a blue card.

Never say never! When OKW opened, the minimum purchase was 230 points. But owners with any number of points qualified for membership extras until 2016, when DVC created a distinction between blue card (direct) and white card (resale) owners. And even then, a direct purchase of as little as 25 points got you a blue card.

That minimum as gone up quite a few times in the past 6 years. In 2018, it was raised to 75 points. In 2020, it went up to 125. And in June 2021, it was raised to where it is now at 150. DVC could be primed for another hike soon if they feel that the 150-point minimum isn't high enough to encourage the sale of larger contracts.

 

[Spork24]

Never say never! When OKW opened, the minimum purchase was 230 points. But owners with any number of points qualified for membership extras until 2016, when DVC created a distinction between blue card (direct) and white card (resale) owners. And even then, a direct purchase of as little as 25 points got you a blue card.

That minimum as gone up quite a few times in the past 6 years. In 2018, it was raised to 75 points. In 2020, it went up to 125. And in June 2021, it was raised to where it is now at 150. DVC could be primed for another hike soon if they feel that the 150-point minimum isn't high enough to encourage the sale of larger contracts.

I guess I didn't make my point very clearly. The whole point of the blue card vs white card is to encourage people to buy direct. they started at 25points, and then people figured out a loophole of buying resale and then doing a small add on, so then the cycles of raising it began. IMO, if they go past 150 points you could see some potential direct buyers move from direct to resale as there is no point in buying direct if you don't get the blue card. Disney is trying to find that sweet spot to move people towards direct. The don't want to do ANYTHING that might make it swing back. So I'm not saying never, just that I think they have gone about as far as they can without the negative impact outweighing the positive impact.

 

[DonMacGregor]

My guess is that before too much longer we will see tiers of membership introduced (with escalating perks/benefits) rather than just continuing to raise the minimum.

They can't even get two simple binary benefit tiers to work now (you get them or you don't). In order for there to be a meaningful difference between membership tiers (a la airline loyalty programs), such that there is a tangible benefit to purchasing more points, the benefits would have to be substantive, well-defined between tiers, and guaranteed (to the extent that they would maintain tier separation and the value of "buying up"). None of that even remotely has the whiff of Disney on it.

You're not going to sell someone on buying XXXX number of points to reach Unobtainium Status, then turn around and tell them "Well, you know we might just take that benefit away, or make it available to the peasants wallowing down at mere Rhodium Status".

 

[tommcp516]

I guess I didn't make my point very clearly. The whole point of the blue card vs white card is to encourage people to buy direct. they started at 25points, and then people figured out a loophole of buying resale and then doing a small add on, so then the cycles of raising it began. IMO, if they go past 150 points you could see some potential direct buyers move from direct to resale as there is no point in buying direct if you don't get the blue card. Disney is trying to find that sweet spot to move people towards direct. The don't want to do ANYTHING that might make it swing back. So I'm not saying never, just that I think they have gone about as far as they can without the negative impact outweighing the positive impact.

As many buyers have concluded, with the limited "perks" that come with a blue card/direct membership now, there is a much greater financial incentive to buy at resale prices vs. direct prices ( "points are points if you don't care about Riviera/new resort restrictions.")

If Disney wanted to cut into the resale market and realize some potential profits that are out there (especially with 2042 resorts that may start to experience falling prices as the limited number of remaining years dwindle), they could:
1. Increase their exercise of ROFR on the 2042 contracts--buying them up at lower resale prices and increasing their inventory of "newly available" points to sell at their "sold out" older resorts;
2. Add an incentivicizing direct member/blue card required perk. Maybe they don't bring back Annual Passes as they previously existed (to avoid FL locals who spend less per day from crowding out the higher spending tourist/vacation guest), but they create some 'annual-pass-like product' exclusively available to direct DVC members;
3. Offer incentives at the sold out 2042 resorts that bring the price closer to resale prices (but that they're still selling at a higher price than what they bought it when they exercized ROFR), but raise the min number of points to qualify for a blue card from 150 to 175 or 200.

Hypothetically, if I were a brand new purchaser weighing my options between resale and direct for a 2042 resort (with the remaining years dwindling down from 20) and my choice was between buying BCV 200 points resale at $165 ($33,000) vs. buying direct (with incentives) at $230 ($46,000) but with a direct exclusive perk that would save me over $1000 each year in ticket purchases for my family over the next remaining 20 years, then I still come out ahead overall with a direct purchase (by $7000) and DVC comes out ahead (ex. 200 points bought through ROFR at say $160 and then sold at $230 after incentives) with profits that ortherwise would have been lost to the resale market.

I think Disney might conclude that the margins only work with enticing purchasers to buy direct contracts at 2042 resorts in the coming years (at reduced incentivicized prices) with a higher number of minimum points required for direct benefits.

 

[Brian Noble]

In order for there to be a meaningful difference between membership tiers (a la airline loyalty programs), such that there is a tangible benefit to purchasing more points, the benefits would have to be substantive, well-defined between tiers, and guaranteed

I'm not so sure.

You definitely have a point on the execution front. Disney IT is so notoriously incompetent that even an analyst on the most recent earnings call mentioned it as an obvious liability in strategy going forward. IIRC neither of the Disney executives on the call challenged it.

But I don't think those things will matter enough to matter. They are clearly able to convince a non-trivial number of DISers who are fully aware of (a) the resale market and (b) the capricious nature of the benefits, to buy up to the "blue card." People don't make decisions based on cold rationality, even when they think they are doing just that. Emotion always comes into play---that's the essence of being human. And TWDC is masterful at that side of the equation. Heck, the Reality Distortion Field around DVC that has some folks convinced it's "not a timeshare" is probably a more significant sales job.

 

[Brian Noble]

People don't make decisions based on cold rationality, even when they think they are doing just that.

As an addendum, I'm reminded of the Stand-Up Economist's translation of Mankiw's Ten Principles of Economics, two of which are translated as: "People are stupid." and "People are not that stupid."

I'm not sure which side of the line this would fall on, but I bet we'll find out.

If you've never seen this bit, it is worth checking out:

 

[DonMacGregor]

I'm not so sure.

You definitely have a point on the execution front. Disney IT is so notoriously incompetent that even an analyst on the most recent earnings call mentioned it as an obvious liability in strategy going forward. IIRC neither of the Disney executives on the call challenged it.

But I don't think those things will matter enough to matter. They are clearly able to convince a non-trivial number of DISers who are fully aware of (a) the resale market and (b) the capricious nature of the benefits, to buy up to the "blue card." People don't make decisions based on cold rationality, even when they think they are doing just that. Emotion always comes into play---that's the essence of being human. And TWDC is masterful at that side of the equation. Heck, the Reality Distortion Field around DVC that has some folks convinced it's "not a timeshare" is probably a more significant sales job.

What I'm saying is a tiered system with additional levels will require that those levels be maintained, and the distinction kept clear, or it's a wasted effort. And, at some point, you DO run into an educated/sophisticated clientele and expectations will be higher as you move up the tiers. I don't think Disney wants or cares to tie themselves into anything more complicated that the status quo. The Reality Distortion Field (or jedi Mind Tricks) doesn't need to do anything more than the current "haves versus the have-nots" to sell their timeshares.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I was thinking that they might raise the min number for Direct benefits from 150 to 200 on March 3 along wirh the new VGF-2 sale. In the past when the min number was raised, was there an annoucement ahead of time to give people one last chance to purchase at the lower min number?

Officially? Not every time, no. Unofficially I think people who pay attention closely always knew in advance, including people who read this sub forum.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

They have always given notice. I think having it at 150 is where it will stay for at least a few years.

I agree with you. 150 points is manageable for many potential buyers, above that is a line that many may not want to cross