Villains expansion changed to 5th gate possibly?

[RamblinWreck]

I think there is So much possibility in a villain's park, but I don't think you will ever se it happen. But the rides, shows and attractions could be amazing!

I'm sure it would be very cool, and also the most poorly attended park in Disney World.

It seems much better suited to its own land within an existing park, IMO.

 

[wkrainey]

I think you might have something. But I would say it does have an admission fee much like Pleasure Island did. It keeps out the looky loos. And if we are going to get a quality product, with the possibility of characters and good entertainment, there needs to be a cover charge. Would it be my first choice? NO, because I think it will be packed with locals. I'd rather it be it's own land in an existing park ~ unless Disney can imagineer a cohesive 5th gate where it will fit. I'm not sure they can.


My gut agrees with yours .... but I think the numbers he put out are giving feet to the story because can any of us come up with that much spending in 10 years, unless it really does include the Nona campus, more hotels and DVC etc or a 5th park? "Walt Disney World" is so much more than theme parks so who knows what was between the lines.

But I know some argue you need more than 13,000 for a park alone, BUT I don't think those numbers include the Disney College Program. With the new housing not only is the internship more desirable but the program has grown. I believe it has a capacity of 11,000 per session. That is lots of extra bodies, especially since they often work more than fulltime hours (no benefits risk to Disney). Could part of the expansion be building more DCP housing? They are a great perk for Disney.

He sure laid a big egg out there and folks are going to run all over the place with ideas.

I think the 13,000 employees is going to be bulk DCP. We all want to say 17 is for a park, but they can easily send that on existing parks. Prior to Covid WDW had about 75,000 employees, and right now it's hovering around 70,000. Playing devils advocate, IF Igor is basing numbers at post-covid staffing, Disney only needs to create 8,000 jobs over pre-covid staff, it's still 10% growth, but a far cry from the 20% they would need otherwise.

As far as the 17 Billion is concerned, it's a bit far fetched to think it'll all go to the parks, I'm guessing at least 5 billion is slated for hotel refurbishments and building. Reflections and Epcot have been canceled but can easily be revived. The skyliner is likely to be added to. New trains for the monorail alone are $300million most likely.

For parks, each land remodel/expansion is probably $500 Million, and as it stands each park has at least 2 land refurbishments/expansions in the next 10years likely to happen, so another 2-4 Billion depending on cost (SW:GE was $1 Billion, while Pandora was closer to $500 Million).

This leaves $6-8 Billion for misc remodeling.

Disney Springs could always expand through the Strawberry parking lot, that's been on the docket since West Side was built. The skyliner could get updates. If they fill in the missing spaces on world showcase at $150 Million each.

We also have to account for the projects they've greenlighted that haven't started, Tiana's Bayou, Imagination Pavilion etc.

If we include the projects already under construction that aren't completed we're easily at the $17 Billion mark.

 

[DanBoris]

The best way to control the crowds at Magic Kingdom would be to build a second identical park and then when you get on the bus from your resort you are randomly taken to one or the other. Classic load balancing!

 

[ED9]

Doubt it but would absolutely love if it were true!

 

[nikem3]

So RCID had a comprehensive plan done last year about their 10 year plan. In that plan, they lay out future land use maximums in it. Including 1 major theme park built by 2027 (slightly larger than MK) and two minor theme parks/expansions built by 2032 (one by 2027 and one by 2032). Obviously these are maximums and subject to change and building an entire theme park by 2027 seems very unlikely, but it is still an interesting plan to read over.

 

[Onceuponamarathon]

Thematically, I think villains fits in better with Magic Kingdom. You already have the princesses and hero’s from their stories represented. You could have an enchanted forest entrance to a villian’s land. Have Maleficent’s castle built like belles (with forced perspective), a small lagoon and water cave for Ursula, Pirate ship docked for Hook, etc. A dark ride that takes you through the ‘ songs would be cool and accessible for younger kids (kinda like how Ariel’s ride has the under the sea song section).

I would love a 5th gate, I just think concept wise Villains specifically works better as an expansion vs. dedicated park.

 

[DVCSince99]

I would love a 5th gate - Hope the rumors come true.

 

[fatmanatee]

Thematically, I think villains fits in better with Magic Kingdom. You already have the princesses and hero’s from their stories represented. You could have an enchanted forest entrance to a villian’s land. Have Maleficent’s castle built like belles (with forced perspective), a small lagoon and water cave for Ursula, Pirate ship docked for Hook, etc. A dark ride that takes you through the ‘ songs would be cool and accessible for younger kids (kinda like how Ariel’s ride has the under the sea song section).

I would love a 5th gate, I just think concept wise Villains specifically works better as an expansion vs. dedicated park.

Agreed.

 

[BrianL]

Thematically, I think villains fits in better with Magic Kingdom. You already have the princesses and hero’s from their stories represented. You could have an enchanted forest entrance to a villian’s land. Have Maleficent’s castle built like belles (with forced perspective), a small lagoon and water cave for Ursula, Pirate ship docked for Hook, etc. A dark ride that takes you through the ‘ songs would be cool and accessible for younger kids (kinda like how Ariel’s ride has the under the sea song section).

I would love a 5th gate, I just think concept wise Villains specifically works better as an expansion vs. dedicated park.

I like this, but they can build Maleficent's castle a little better than Belle's.

 

[StevieB81]

I'll start by saying I don't like the Park Pass system (I guess I really don't like the hopping restrictions, but whatever). What if they added a new land (or whatever) at each park for a total of ten new rides and 4 shows, etc. and kept capacity level the same. Wouldn't the Park Pass system be used to make the parks feel less crowded? A whole new area with 3-4 things to do for the same amount of people? Am I missing something? The parks sell out frequently, right? At least MK and HS run out of reservations pretty often, or they used to anyway. An expansion of the parks, each with some e-ticket ride, could offer another 10-20% more things to do. Things that take time and keep a sizeable amount of people out of the other attraction queues and other walkways, etc. This would accomplish Disney's stated goal, would it not? It might at least get the headliners down to a wait time of less than 2 hours at least.

 

[maverik85]

I like this, but they can build Maleficent's castle a little better than Belle's.

Agreed. If it's an expansion I hope they do Maleficent's castle as the centerpiece as well, but do it more on the scale of Belle's castle in Tokyo.
If they do it as an expansion to MK I hope it takes up the whole area they were looking at behind BTMRR. There is so much they can do with villains that they need more than a miniland with one ride.

 

[wkrainey]

I'll start by saying I don't like the Park Pass system (I guess I really don't like the hopping restrictions, but whatever). What if they added a new land (or whatever) at each park for a total of ten new rides and 4 shows, etc. and kept capacity level the same. Wouldn't the Park Pass system be used to make the parks feel less crowded? A whole new area with 3-4 things to do for the same amount of people? Am I missing something? The parks sell out frequently, right? At least MK and HS run out of reservations pretty often, or they used to anyway. An expansion of the parks, each with some e-ticket ride, could offer another 10-20% more things to do. Things that take time and keep a sizeable amount of people out of the other attraction queues and other walkways, etc. This would accomplish Disney's stated goal, would it not? It might at least get the headliners down to a wait time of less than 2 hours at least.

What benefit does Disney have to do this then. IF they limit guests to the same amount as before the expansion they are not generating additional income on those guests. So adding 10-20% more to do in a park, meaning probably 5-10% more staffing costs generates no additional income to offset those costs. The incentive for Disney to build more goes away at that point, it's why we saw a huge stall in construction post 9/11 until New Fantasyland was announced somewhere around 2008. that 7yrs was all about getting guests to come back to the parks and filling out existing capacity.

 

[Cfabar1]

I'm going to offer a contrarian view and say that I do not support a Villains park.

The purpose of the Disney corporation is to delight and enchant, not to scare, to intimidate, etc. I question the idea that villains as a concept could sustain an entire park. It also doesn't seem family oriented, as it would be scary for the younger children. A villains section, or some sort of scary villain days at one of the parks I could see, but a whole theme park, I am skeptical.

A villains cruise I could see being a hoot, especially around Halloween....

 

[wkrainey]

I'm going to offer a contrarian view and say that I do not support a Villains park.

The purpose of the Disney corporation is to delight and enchant, not to scare, to intimidate, etc. I question the idea that villains as a concept could sustain an entire park. It also doesn't seem family oriented, as it would be scary for the younger children. A villains section, or some sort of scary villain days at one of the parks I could see, but a whole theme park, I am skeptical.

A villains cruise I could see being a hoot, especially around Halloween....

I think most Disney villain's are funny/goofy in nature, just look at the 90s movies for examples. You could to an Ariel's Grotto area that has Ursula singing classic Ariel songs and bring ships from all around into the area. Captain Hook can have a ride about how great it is to be a Pirate and plundering etc. and at the end he gets chased away by the crocodile.

You can learn to build a better battery with Emperor Zurg. After being defeated by Buzz Lightyear and having a power supply destroyed by star command Zurg needs to build a better battery to ensure his Galactic Empire is powered properly. You could tie this in with Monsters Inc where Mr. Waternoose and Randall are trying to steal the technology themselves to save Monstropolis.

Rattatouille, have Chef Skinner and the restaurant inspector are trying to make sure the restaurant is ready to be opened, but 1st they need to find a rat that has been stealing food. Can you help Chef Skinner get his kitchen ready? The ride is just Chef skinner trying to find Remy and his buddies, and trying to evade the traps setup by Remy's family.

The rides don't need to be sinister in nature, they can just tell the story from the Villains perspective or show how the Hero is constantly ruining their plans, and how they have to adapt to overcome them.

Just think how funny an aquarium called "Darla's, I've learned not to shake the bag, Yay fishy!" would be. It's just an aquarium with a funny name.

 

[Dznefreek]

I am sure someone has already mentioned it but this has been wishful thinking for at least 10 years.

 

[HopperFan]

Thematically, I think villains fits in better with Magic Kingdom. You already have the princesses and hero’s from their stories represented. You could have an enchanted forest entrance to a villian’s land. Have Maleficent’s castle built like belles (with forced perspective), a small lagoon and water cave for Ursula, Pirate ship docked for Hook, etc. A dark ride that takes you through the ‘ songs would be cool and accessible for younger kids (kinda like how Ariel’s ride has the under the sea song section).

I would love a 5th gate, I just think concept wise Villains specifically works better as an expansion vs. dedicated park.

At this point I don't think it's about themes - there are already a mix mash in MK DHS and Epcot.

The important part to me is more even distribution of crowds. MK has the largest number of rides, more than double the others. I mean there is no reason to add more attractions anywhere unless it is to get folks to go to other parks. Epcot has the space but no real fit for it.

I think they move parking and expand DHS and put it in there, if it even happens.

 

[wkrainey]

At this point I don't think it's about themes - there are already a mix mash in MK DHS and Epcot.

The important part to me is more even distribution of crowds. MK has the largest number of rides, more than double the others. I mean there is no reason to add more attractions anywhere unless it is to get folks to go to other parks. Epcot has the space but no real fit for it.

I think they move parking and expand DHS and put it in there, if it even happens.

Agreed, I think DHS makes the most sense and retheming RnRC to be a villainous type ride. ToT kind of fits already, Fantasmic is a huge Villain anchor already. Little Mermaid can easily be swapped for something Villain like for a show.

 

[Brob2132]

As several have said, AK likely next. I wonder if the redo of Dinoland and potential additional area will lead to some sort of direct transportation from AKL and potentially an additional DVC.

They’ve created so much value around Epcot/HS, the wonder if that’s part of the play to accomplish a lot of the goals stated in this thread.

 

[RamblingMad]

I would love a 5th gate - Hope the rumors come true.

They need one. Far more people live in the US now than when AK opened.

 

[mom2rtk]

They need one. Far more people live in the US now than when AK opened.

Disney's accountants thank us.

And there is no 5th gate coming any time soon.