VGC - where is price per point headed? Should we buy now or wait?

[pirate33]

Have you been back since the opening of the paradise pier entrance? I can't put a price tag on being able to go from World of Color to hotel room in 4 mins at the end of a long, long rope dropping day.

Oh yes. Boy was that entrance wonderful.

 

[pirate33]

"Don't forget, this is a property interest that has to be probated in California. That means your estate needs a plan to hire a lawyer and handle this in California when you die. OR, you need to do the work upfront and get the legal structure to own this property. California has its own rules for all of this, and definitely requires real, non-Internet legal advice. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it. Is all of this worth it for a few nights in a hotel room?"

No different than any other real estate: form a living trust. I had no issues changing title to my DVC contracts in California and Florida using our trust after my husband passed. (I used a title company to do it but some people do the paperwork on their own.)

But you're right: no trust=probate and that is to be avoided.

 

[RoseGold]

No different than any other real estate: form a living trust. I had no issues changing title to my DVC contracts in California and Florida using our trust after my husband passed. (I used a title company to do it but some people do the paperwork on their own.)

But you're right: no trust=probate and that is to be avoided.

Sure, assuming you already have a trust/corporate structure set up to handle this. Otherwise, your estate is going to be hiring a lawyer in another state. I think it's important to plan for that, especially if that state is as militant as California.

 

[pirate33]

Sure, assuming you already have a trust/corporate structure set up to handle this. Otherwise, your estate is going to be hiring a lawyer in another state. I think it's important to plan for that, especially if that state is as militant as California.

Sorry, I really don’t understand this. It’s a good idea for anyone in any state (so far as I know) to have a living trust if that person owns real estate. It avoids probate, which means avoiding delay and significant expense and—consistent with your message—generally avoiding the need to hire a probate lawyer. If one owns a primary residence, it would make sense to have a trust and therefore putting DVC deeds in trust would be easy and cost little to nothing.

I don’t think California is “militant” about probate. What do you mean by that? Would it be any different in Florida or in most/all other US states? Probate is an ancient procedure that presumably all US states follow.

If one doesn’t have a trust, then one’s estate goes through probate. I believe that is typical is any state. California is actually quite liberal with smaller estates that do not include real estate and are worth less than about $160K. For such estates there is a very simple procedure for transferring property that involves signing a declaration and presenting it to whoever holds the property, such as a bank. It’s called the “small estate affidavit” here and completely avoids the need to commence a probate proceeding. I have been through this drill with administering two estates. But if the probate estate includes real property, then a probate proceeding is necessary to transfer title.

I am really not trying to get into a debate but I think accurate information needs to be shared. In my experience, there is nothing especially scary or difficult with transferring VGC deeds upon one co-owner’s death as long as a living trust is used to hold title.

 

[RoseGold]

California has a lot of extra rules, like an $800/year LLC tax to operate there, which isn’t true in other places. California has a lot of tax structure that we call dues. Or sometimes, it actually takes burden and cost to comply for timeshare owners, like the Hawaii rules. California could do the same or more in the future.

As for probate, there are a lot of options. A living trust is just one. This is why OP should get actual legal advice and consider whether all of this is worth it for a couple nights in a hotel room.

 

[pirate33]

California has a lot of extra rules, like an $800/year LLC tax to operate there, which isn’t true in other places. California has a lot of tax structure that we call dues. Or sometimes, it actually takes burden and cost to comply for timeshare owners, like the Hawaii rules. California could do the same or more in the future.

As for probate, there are a lot of options. A living trust is just one. This is why OP should get actual legal advice and consider whether all of this is worth it for a couple nights in a hotel room.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I haven't had any inconvenience or tax burden (other than the property taxes included in DVC dues) in owning my VGC contracts (nor my BLT or VGF ones either). There is no tax due simply for creating a living trust or putting real property in trust. You are right Hawaii has some special rules but the only one I'm aware of is a nightly per-stay tax paid at the front desk, so that is some extra $ but not an inconvenience.

 

[RoseGold]

Right, you have actual legal advice and structured accordingly, as OP should do also

I would actually hold direct WDW contracts in a local LLC, but not VGC. This requires legal advice.

And CA law, like Hawaii over time, can change. CA has been aggressive in a lot of forms of taxation, who knows how that will look for timeshares. Most of these taxes (example: property tax!) we just call dues.

 

[CaliAdventurer]

Have you been back since the opening of the paradise pier entrance? I can't put a price tag on being able to go from World of Color to hotel room in 4 mins at the end of a long, long rope dropping day.

I haven't stayed since Feb but will be there all next week. Cannot wait to check it out!! Heading out from Pixar Pier, heck ya!

 

[princesscinderella]

I haven't stayed since Feb but will be there all next week. Cannot wait to check it out!! Heading out from Pixar Pier, heck ya!

We just checked in today!! We haven’t been back since 2018 after having to cancel our June trips here the past two years. I have forgotten how much I love it here, I wish we lived closer.

 

[vacay77]

Have you been back since the opening of the paradise pier entrance? I can't put a price tag on being able to go from World of Color to hotel room in 4 mins at the end of a long, long rope dropping day.

Yes! This is fantastic. We were there the week the new entrance opened up and it was priceless. I was traveling with my family, including my 78 year old mom, and young children. It was so nice to be able to go back to the room and rest for a bit before lining up for world of color dessert party and then heading back to our room afterward.

 

[jkips]

I own at a couple other DVC resorts, live in California and love VGC but have never been able to get comfortable with the prices for VGC points. To get around it I rent my points at the other resorts to then turn around and rent points from VGC owners. I pay a spread to do that but even at $5 a point (David’s current spread for what they charge vs pay for rental points) it’s cheaper than owning VGC. I do give up some flexibility and am reliant on there being willing renters at VGC through the brokers or this site but so far it’s worked okay.

 

[Robin"D"]

We plan on continuing to do Disneyland at least every other year or using it as a rest period on the way to Hawaii (we are east coasters). I've been noodling on the pros and cons of a VGC contract for a while and kicking myself for not grabbing one a couple years ago when resale prices were under 200ppt. General thoughts on the continued (nutso) pricing of around 260-270ppt? We've had trouble getting a room with the 7 month booking window using our WDW contracts so I'm trying to weigh paying what equates to an almost 80% premium over what we paid for our last WDW contracts to be able to snag the room we want and of course am trying to justify in my head why "it's ok to pay $265ppt" for VGC. Oh wise DVC owners, please give me your thoughts.

As I noticed several mouths ago the price point has steadily been decreeing at the Grand Cal. Not doubt to the new Towers.

 

[geargrinder]

As I noticed several mouths ago the price point has steadily been decreeing at the Grand Cal. Not doubt to the new Towers.

I suspect also due to inflation/recession affecting everyone's buying power. Harder to spend near $300/pt when most other resorts are resale at half that.

I also agree that VDH is impacting Grand Cal. Those that just want Disneyland points but don't need Grand Cal, are willing to wait for the sale of VDH.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I agree that, as beloved and awesome as VGC is, there is some percentage of owners and potential buyers that purchased points there mainly because it was/is the only DVC game in town for DLR. For that subset of buyers (however large or small it may be), the future availability of VDH with its larger room count and promise of greater availability, and lower cost per point, will remove some demand from VGC resale.

 

[pirate33]

I am very happy I bought into VGC around 2014 at a price that now seems astonishingly low, so I am biased. I don’t intend to ever sell. VDH sounds great if one wants a better chance at studios and has other appealing features but I’m happy with VGC. I like the aesthetic of the Grand Californian and the irrepeatable proximity to the parks (unless, say, Jungle Cruise were demolished to build a DVC.)

I do want to say, though, that I wouldn’t pay a premium for VGC based on the Pixar Pier back entrance. It is fantastic, and I enjoyed using it earlier this year. But I am not sure it will be permanent. I never understood why they closed it in the first place, but it was probably to save labor costs. It seems to take about 4-6 people minimum to staff. Once VDH is sold out (and presuming the special entrance will be offered expressly as a perk for that property), I think it might go away ultimately. It’s only a “stealth” perk for VGC right now. I doubt it will be a deeded entitlement for VDH, and that entrance is certainly not assured to VGC owners.