VDH Points Chart is Live!

[ehh]

Here's the chart that shows transient tax nightly rates for 2023:

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...eyland-hotel/VDH_2023_Estimated_TOT_Chart.pdf

View attachment 754352

Well this certainly lays bare a justification for so few 1BR/2BR/GV in room inventory, seeing the numbers like that.

1BR averages ~$450 in taxes for a 4-night stay.
2BR averages ~$666 in taxes for a 4-night stay.
GV averages ~$1,450 in taxes for a 4-night stay.

Only a small number of 1BR nights are less than $100/night.

 

[AstroBlasters]

To be clear, you’re going to pay the tax in a regular hotel room as well. So if you are looking at the Disney rate on the website, it says EXCLUDING TAX.

When I ran my a random day in August a standard bedroom was $600 a night. That DOES NOT include tax or parking. At 15% that tax is $90 a night.

 

[DMPicone]

I bought into Bay Lake Tower in 2014, so it wasn't new at that time and they weren't even officially offering it. I had to get 3 contracts lumped together to buy a direct 100 points. The cost of things have gone up as you'd expect in 9 years to the per point cost for 2023 between the contracts is $11.11 vs $13.75 (estimating contract fees). That's not much difference. I have a 9 night studio booked at BLT for December so I compared the cost of booking with each contract and the rack rate. It'll cost about $400 more to use the DLH contract than the BLT one, but compared to the rack rate it's 80% vs 75% of the actual cost.

Doing the same with a stay at the DLH then showed a need for more points and about a $500 difference between contracts. Compared to the rack rate though 63% and 56% which isn't very good compared to the rest of the resorts. Looking to the Duo rooms then which are fewer points I checked again and while using 18 fewer points, regardless of the contract it ends up costing about $180 more than the same stay at BLT and rack rate comparison is still low at 60% vs 67%.

I then checked the claims on buying into VGC as I have stayed there and do think it is the nicer location, but lacking studio supply. It uses 42 more points than my BLT stay, but compared to DLH it only needs 3 more points for a room with a balcony and potentially a view of California Adventure vs a parking lot. Compared to the rack rate it comes in at 79% for my BLT contract, 73% for the DLH one, and only 67% for a new direct VGC contract (so that's not a good deal). What looks worse for DVC though than the fact that the rack rate savings are better is that the actual cost of the trip while using 3 extra points comes in at roughly $500 less than staying at the DLH regardless of contract. I think people are forgetting that everyone pays the transient tax if staying at the DLH, not just the owners.

It seems like a no brainer that everyone will book DLH at 11 months and waitlist VGC at 7 months because it's an instant cost savings and a far superior product. This is the huge problem, the value is just not there for anyone. DLH is an inferior product, and they failed to find a way to make the DVC building superior, but are charging more for it. Even if I bought 3 one time points to make the difference at 7 months I'd still save money and get a better room with a higher value. This issue can't be fixed with incentives. Even if they offer deals to lower the buy in down to $215 that only lowers the per point cost by $0.30 which doesn't make much of a dent. They need to boost the rack rate value to 70-80% like the other resorts (Riviera comes in at 77% with my BLT contract and 72% with a DLH one), but just increasing the cost of the DLH won't fix it entirely. It also can't cost more than the clearly superior VGC so they have to reduce the points somehow to get the cost down.

Edit: a large table apparently doesn't work well as an attachment, not sure how to post it higher quality.

 

[ehh]

To be clear, you’re going to pay the tax in a regular hotel room as well. So if you are looking at the Disney rate on the website, it says EXCLUDING TAX.

When I ran my a random day in August a standard bedroom was $600 a night. That DOES NOT include tax or parking. At 15% that tax is $90 a night.

Of course. And the tax we're paying is lower than the cash guests are, both in rate and taxed value.

But the mentality of it is different with what we've become accustomed to over the years--we're used to one thing and that has changed for us. And us Disney fans are generally not great with change, let alone Actually Bad Change™.

1. DVC users are accustomed to not paying a consumption-style tax at time of use in Florida or VGC.
   • The tax rate is more than 4x higher VDH's neighbor, VGC, which is baked into dues, and also much higher than Aulani.
2. Many of us are accustomed to not paying anything on a 'hotel bill'.

Regarding the actual tax amounts. VDH 1BR Nov 1 - Nov 5, 2023 is $5210 before tax, $6095.70 after (17% tax, even higher than what we're facing!). But in the context of $5210 rack rate, tax is a "well, yeah, of course", even if it's nearly $900.
Same stay on DVC points would be $0 due-during-stay without tax, $470ish with tax. Go from not having a hotel bill to having a (small) hotel bill.

(and who knows about parking)

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I am officially VDH fatigued. I’m done! Time to move on with my life and enjoy my VGC points until I’m in my 80’s!

 

[HIRyeDVC]

But the mentality of it is different with what we've become accustomed to over the years--we're used to one thing and that has changed for us. And us Disney fans are generally not great with change, let alone Actually Bad Change™.

Perhaps this product is geared toward the next generation who don’t know what they’ve missed out on. Every generation of Disney fans go through this type of transition. Like when park tickets used to be included with your dvc stay. Or when valet parking used to be free. Or when dvc members used to get discounts on APs. Perhaps this is just another seismic shift in what dvc offers to new members.

 

[zavandor]

Here's the chart that shows transient tax nightly rates for 2023:

https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.di...eyland-hotel/VDH_2023_Estimated_TOT_Chart.pdf

View attachment 754352

OMG.
$60 per night in taxes for a studio in the period I'd go, on top of the point cost. No, thank you. I'll stay offsite.

 

[Sandisw]

Perhaps this product is geared toward the next generation who don’t know what they’ve missed out on. Every generation of Disney fans go through this type of transition. Like when park tickets used to be included with your dvc stay. Or when valet parking used to be free. Or when dvc members used to get discounts on APs. Perhaps this is just another seismic shift in what dvc offers to new members.

The ticket offer, though, wasn’t tickets includes as part of the POS. They were the equivalent of today‘s incentives,..an incentive given as part of the purchase….for 1/2 the occupancy of the room. So, if you had 4 guests in a studio or 1 bedroom, you were given two.

I know it’s seems technical, but people see that and think everyone was given it as part of the contract…

 

[Brian Noble]

But if you wanted to go to Anaheim inexpensively and stay at WorldMark, they also have Dolphin's Cove.

Which is odd, because Dolphin's Cove also appears to be located within the city limits of Anaheim. It is on Orangewood east of Katella.

 

[tfc3rid]

OMG.
$60 per night in taxes for a studio in the period I'd go, on top of the point cost. No, thank you. I'll stay offsite.

Add to that the cost of park tickets and food...

 

[zavandor]

Which is odd, because Dolphin's Cove also appears to be located within the city limits of Anaheim. It is on Orangewood east of Katella.

I was looking at II Getaways near Disneyland and there are a couple of options that seem feasible. But it's not clear if they charge the ToT or not and how much. How to find that information?

 

[nlenguyen]

While I can try to make some comparisons, on the Disneyland website it no longer shows cash bookings for VDH???
Example Trip Dec 8-12,2023 I usually value my points if I am renting at $21-$22 so for these example I will use $21.50
2-Bedroom
VDH points- 258 points + $705.30 in TOT
VDH points if renting out = $5547 + $705.30 = $6252.30
VDH Cash from when I called a couple months ago = $7578.00 + $1288.26 tax = $8866.26
VGC- 234 points

VGC is the clear winner, but I am most likely not able to get those rooms, as many are already booked at this point and at 7 month mark not able to get.
I would still have VDH points second as the renting price is still $2400 different than cash booking

Example Trip March 15-19, 2024
VDH points- 280 + $ 789.60 in TOT
VGC - 316
While VDH wins with points, the TOT adds an additional 37 points if I were to divide the tax by $21.50 which means the real stay would be 317, a point more than VGC

None of these numbers include the parking which would also have VGC be the winner in my mind.
Hopefully this can help someone decide to book VDH or think about getting a contract.
I have seen that people are not worried about this TOT for those that like to rent out their points, but the whole idea of getting a VDH is to have a Disneyland Resort. If you are using VDH points to book RIV, I would just say get RIV points, they are cheaper and better incentives most likely. If you are just using the VDH points for VDH which I have seen many say on threads and Facebook, then you are the one paying the tax as well which makes your total cost much more. This TOT will bite them and I don't think it can go away as it is from the city of Anaheim.
Staying offsite will most likely be how we work unless the family is okay with the addition of the TOT.

 

[Brian Noble]

How to find that information?

Fees are usually disclosed during the booking process. I think most of the Anaheim getaways are hotels that are being sold through Interval. The Residence Inn is in Garden Grove, so probably would not. The Kawada is probably too far. Newport Coast Villas is a Marriott VC timeshare, but well outside Anaheim.

I suspect the ToT for properties in Anaheim is folded into the taxes you pay on checkout. Looking at the Clementine, which is in Anaheim, the tax charged is 17% of the cost of the getaway.

 

[dina444444]

Fees are usually disclosed during the booking process. I think most of the Anaheim getaways are hotels that are being sold through Interval. The Residence Inn is in Garden Grove, so probably would not. The Kawada is probably too far. Newport Coast Villas is a Marriott VC timeshare, but well outside Anaheim.

I suspect the ToT for properties in Anaheim is folded into the taxes you pay on checkout. Looking at the Clementine, which is in Anaheim, the tax charged is 17% of the cost of the getaway.

The 17% is 15% occupancy tax and 2% resort district tax.

 

[nkosiek]

OMG.
$60 per night in taxes for a studio in the period I'd go, on top of the point cost. No, thank you. I'll stay offsite.

This, and if you're at the right hotel, you're probably closer to the main gate.

 

[Brian Noble]

The 17% is 15% occupancy tax and 2% resort district tax.

That was my suspicion. So, @zavandor they are disclosed before you make final payment, and are included in that payment.

Remember: II Getaways are completely non-refundable. (At least they are for the hoi polloi. I'm not sure if that's also true for DVC Members.)

 

[nalabear]

WDW Disney bubble isn't close to DLR bubble. Nearby hotels are very walkable and many closer than VDH. VGC has the advantage of direct entries of two locations to DCA now.

So for us, the prospect of direct VDH is much lower. No hurry to buy. The hook for us would be DisneyForward moving toward reality.

The irony would be VDH owners will still be cheaper to stay at VGC for quite a few periods throughout the year due the charts+ToT. That's just crazy.

 

[Jgc014]

WDW Disney bubble isn't close to DLR bubble. Nearby hotels are very walkable and many closer than VDH. VGC has the advantage of direct entries of two locations to DCA now.

So for us, the prospect of direct VDH is much lower. No hurry to buy. The hook for us would be DisneyForward moving toward reality.

The irony would be VDH owners will still be cheaper to stay at VGC for quite a few periods throughout the year due the charts+ToT. That's just crazy.

I agree. I think the comparison to the VGC make this the toughest to swallow. When you are looking at DVC in CA, it make sense to compare to the only other DVC option there.

Then when comparing, I think in almost all areas VGC beats VDH - 1. Theming, 2. Proximity to the parks, 3. Balconys in all room, 4. Size of rooms (this one im not 100% sure on, but I think VGC’s rooms are bigger than VDH?)

I think that could all be overcome if there was some price differential that compensated for some of these areas where VGC excels over VDH, but once the TOT is factored in, I don’t think there will be a meaningful difference.

Plus I think just from a psychological standpoint getting hit with a bill at the end of your VDH stay doesn’t feel great when you wouldn’t get anything similar at VGC.

That being said, for anyone who really wants to own at DL, even if a worse option, VDH may be the only option as there is certainly not VGC points for all interested parties.

 

[Ashlotte]

Yes 6% but timeshares are currently exempt by a law ( signed during the Crist administration) - that can of course change.

Which is odd, because Dolphin's Cove also appears to be located within the city limits of Anaheim. It is on Orangewood east of Katella.

I think the tax difference could be related to the age of the property. In Oregon newer homes have much larger property tax bills than older ones with the same square footage and city because the tax increase is capped at a certain percentage increase per year, versus new builds have no such restrictions to hold them back, so they enter with a higher tax. Also, the credits it costs to stay at Worldmark Anaheim are substantially higher than Dolphins Cove, so maybe the tax hit just feels less significant and doesn’t stand out to the same degree.

 

[Brian Noble]

But at Anaheim, it is paid by the guest at check out. At Dolphins the guest has no bill at the end.