Update on Fort Improvements- with photos!

[des1954]

They were beginning the "great fill of 1900" over labor day weekend. The cypress trees are probably going to lose.

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

I don't know about Orange County, but in Sarasota and Manatee Counties, any tree you wanted to cut down that had a trunk over 8" in diameter required a permit unless the tree was diseased or otherwise unsafe. The only exceptions to this rule (IIRC) were pine trees and cabbage palm trees. You could pull out all of those that you wanted. Tree removal is regulated by the county and not the state.

The only plants I know of that are illegal to remove under any circumstances are: sea grape trees, mangroves, and sea oats. These are all coastal plants and do not grow inland in Florida.

 

[F4disneyfan]

It could be a larger coax they use to network the TV out to the sites before splitting it to the seperate sites. They would use a larger diameter and then split to the smaller gauge to distribute the signal from there. Someone who works CATV or SAT will probably correct me and tell me they haven't used that in years but that to the best of my CATV knowledge.

I was just looking at your photo and looks even larger then what I posted but it is probably the same idea.

That is exactly what this cable is for I have used it many many times for wireless networing from our antenna to the ditribution block on our towers when I worked in that industry. It is also what our local cable company runs to the main distribution boxes along the streets then into a distributor block then out the the individual homes.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I sure hope that this is not some intentional move to kill the trees. If Disney wanted to completely redesign the loops they would catch h*ll for clear-cutting native trees in a wildlife preserve (which I understand FW to be). But, if the trees died due to accident (blame bad horticultural advice) then they could start with a blank slate. I know, I sound like an extremist, but is it really any more lame-brained than replacing 20,000 Leagues with a Pooh Playground?!

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

 

[Shan-man]

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

Well, I guess this is another instance of smoke-blowing CMs! It was a boat launch operator who was waxing on about the brilliance of Disney getting Fort Wilderness acknowledged as a wildlife preserve (or maybe, forestry reserve), reaping the tax benefits of that determination, and still being able to make money off guests staying there. I nodded enthusiastically that it was brilliant... apparently I wasn't so! DoH!

That said, I cannot believe this filling is being done in ignorance. Disney has a huge horticultural department, and it seems most amateurs even around here know you can't bury exposed roots or change the crown height around trees without ill effects.

 

[des1954]

Well, I guess this is another instance of smoke-blowing CMs! It was a boat launch operator who was waxing on about the brilliance of Disney getting Fort Wilderness acknowledged as a wildlife preserve (or maybe, forestry reserve), reaping the tax benefits of that determination, and still being able to make money off guests staying there. I nodded enthusiastically that it was brilliant... apparently I wasn't so! DoH!

That said, I cannot believe this filling is being done in ignorance. Disney has a huge horticultural department, and it seems most amateurs even around here know you can't bury exposed roots or change the crown height around trees without ill effects.

Oh... they know exactly what they are doing. When the trees start dying, they will be considered hazards and they can take them down without asking a soul. So perhaps...that is Disney's "brilliance". However, I pity the poor soul who ends up with a tree branch thru the roof of their RV as a result of the trees dying. Disney won't pay...I know...my in-law's got a pine branch thru their awning and the "suits" at FtW basically told them that's what their RV insurance was for. They didn't even get a free Mickey Bar! BAH!!!

What I would like to know is...where is all the rain water going to run off to now that they've filled in the "holes"???

 

[des1954]

By the way & for those who are interested.... there is a Disney Wilderness Preserve just to the south of WDW. I look at this as a "trade-off", allowing Disney the priviledge of doing whatever they wish to their resort properties, while still "maintaining" the perception of wetlands preservation.

http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/florida/preserves/art5523.html

 

[LarryJ]

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

I could be mistakened, but WDW is not like a normal county and even has it's own county type zoning entity (Reedy Creek) and was done because normal building codes, etc. could never have addressed things like Epcot Earth and many of the other unique buildings that Walt wanted.

WDW is sort of it's own county and unique is how it operates.

Larry

 

[rapriebe]

What I would like to know is...where is all the rain water going to run off to now that they've filled in the "holes"???

That's what I was wondering also. Probably a distinct possibility that the campsites will flood or else there is going to be alot of water around on the roadways??? Going to be interesting to see what happens. But it definitely looks much better; more usable space on each campsite.

 

[des1954]

I could be mistakened, but WDW is not like a normal county and even has it's own county type zoning entity (Reedy Creek) and was done because normal building codes, etc. could never have addressed things like Epcot Earth and many of the other unique buildings that Walt wanted.

WDW is sort of it's own county and unique is how it operates.

Larry

Nope! Disney is spread over two counties... Osceola & Orange & all buildings have to meet these county inspections & regulations. The very western part of Animal Kingdom bridges into the Verizon local service area, and I handled most of the land line service orders for that part of the park when it was under constructon - which meant I was a sort of "liaison" between Disney engineers & Verizon engineers. Several orders had to be put on hold due to Osceola County inspectors either not arriving as scheduled, or not passing an inspection.

Reedy Creek is an "improvement district".... whatever the heck that means. It is neither a city or a county. Sort of reminds me of Washington D.C. ---the city without a state. (LOL) I do know that the RCID had a big say over the development of Epcot, but I don't think they could over ride the actual county inspectors. I'm sure that there were a lot of turned heads & nods of approval between the two "governments" due to the unique architecture found at Epcot.

The actual cities that most of WDW are in are: Lake Buena Vista & Bay Lake. They also slightly spread into Davenport & just a whisker into Lake County. I'm speaking of the resort properties as a whole - and not of other Disney holdings or operations in other parts of Florida that the regular guest - or the average CM's for that matter - would know about.

Here's a link to the RCID:

http://www.rcid.org/index.cfm

 

[Gatordad]

We have a CDD which is basically the same thing, although we use the county for Fire and Sheriff.

 

[OK GRUMPY]

This is very interesting. We stayed in the 1800 loop last April and I could have easliy gotten that Island sensation! I'm curious to see the 1800 loop after the improvements have been done. I'm also curious as to how it will effect the trees and what will happen to the water run off.

 

[LONE-STAR]

They were beginning the "great fill of 1900" over labor day weekend. The cypress trees are probably going to lose.

Shan-man...FtW is not any kind of preserve. It was privately owned citrus groves and swamp before Walt went on his secretive shopping spree, which is why you still see some fruit trees around FtW and all the cypress trees. There are wetland regulations, which is what you may be thinking of.

I don't know about Orange County, but in Sarasota and Manatee Counties, any tree you wanted to cut down that had a trunk over 8" in diameter required a permit unless the tree was diseased or otherwise unsafe. The only exceptions to this rule (IIRC) were pine trees and cabbage palm trees. You could pull out all of those that you wanted. Tree removal is regulated by the county and not the state.

The only plants I know of that are illegal to remove under any circumstances are: sea grape trees, mangroves, and sea oats. These are all coastal plants and do not grow inland in Florida.

I can't see a reason that they would intentionally want to kill these trees. I think it is just carelessness.

It is amazing to me that they are able to do things like this. In my county over here on the west coast of Florida, before you can get a building permit, you have to provide a tree survey, and you must protect the trees by building barriers around them before the site work is done. As you can see in this one photo, in addition to filling right up to the tree trunks, a lot of the trees got scraped and banged up in the process:

The first house that my wife and I bought after we were married was in a new development here in Florida where the developer had left a lot of the native trees to create a wooded feel. Well, after about two or three years, everybody's trees started dying off. Their roots had been damaged during construction, and the developer had filled in all around the trees when grading the lots. We eventually lost about 75% of the trees. I am no expert, so I can't say that is going to happen at the Fort, but I don't like the looks of things. It is going to look great at first, but only time will tell.

TCD

Wow as far as I know in Texas if you can start a chain saw you can cut it down.

 

[Tri-circle-D]

To further muddy the waters . . . .

Part of the land within the confines of Ft. Wilderness is some type of preserve.

I took this photo in April 2008:

This was taken on the path that leads from the canal that borders the 1500, 1600 and 1800 loops.

In this photo, I have marked the approximate area where this sign was posted with a red star. The tree was facing out from the area behind the1800 and 1900 loops, which would suggest to me that it was referring to the land between the loops and this sign:

As for concerns about flooding in the 1900 loop, there was extensive work done on the canal that is adjacent to this loop, which I have marked with an arrow above.

Here are a few photos that I took in April 2008 from the 1900 loop, showing the work going on in the canal area:

So, hopefully, the drainage concern has been addressed.

The bottom line seems to be that Disney can do whatever the heck it wants to with its land.

TCD

 

[DisneyBishops]

Disney is its own government. It doesn't have to abide by any rules from the county or state.

 

[chief19spixi]

I just saw all the updated pics of the fort!! I can't wait to see more!! woo hoo!!!

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Disney is its own government. It doesn't have to abide by any rules from the county or state.

I think we've been around this topic before, Dan. While Disney originally founded the Reedy Creek Improvement District to bypass local zoning restrictions, it is no longer the case. They now have to file for permits and go through all the local and state regulations everybody else does. If nothing else, it's made it much easier for people on the internet to figure out what Disney's plans are, since the permit filings are on the public record. When I used to have more time, I used to look them up and wade through them to see if I could figure out Disney's plans.

 

[DisCamper]

Reedy Creek is a city and to have a city you must have residents. This is the resident of Reedy Creek houses. http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.nqy1wm865rpz_Reedy Creek____&encType=1
Click on birds eye to see photo.

 

[tim5055]

Reedy Creek is a city and to have a city you must have residents. This is the resident of Reedy Creek houses. http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.nqy1wm865rpz_Reedy Creek____&encType=1
Click on birds eye to see photo.

Reedy Creek is both a city and the name of the Improvement district. There are actually two cities on Disney Property, the other being Lake Buena Vista. As any other city in FL., they have a commission and mayor. The only official function of these bodies is to vote one a year the "contract" all services form the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

The "residents" in the two cities are all Disney employees who rent the homes from Disney.

As tot eh earlier point, RCID still handles all permitting for Disney property. They follow all state laws, but have their own building/zoning laws which differ from the two counties the property sits in.

 

[des1954]

I found the picture of this sign that TCD took very hopeful IMHO...

A "wetland" is:

Wetlands are ecosystems typically found on the transition between terrestrial and aquatic systems. In order to be classified as a wetland, an area typically has at least one of the following 3 characteristics:

1. a water table at or near the ground's surface during the growing season (including when the land is covered by shallow water)
2. poorly drained or hydric soils
3. be home to a unique diversity of wildlife and vegetation specifically adapted to thrive in wet environments.

This is from the Univ. of Fla website: http://wetlandextension.ifas.ufl.edu/about.htm

It really makes me happy that environmental regulators are enforcing wetland protection - even at WDW. I do know from personal experience that "palms can be greased" to by-pass wetlands regulations & I truly hope that is not the case at FtW. Wetlands impact the whole ecosystem. In the building booms of Florida in the 50's - 70's, much of the wetlands of the everglades were drained in order to put up housing developments, shopping centers, etc. Florida is still suffering the effects of this today. But thanks to the "tree huggers", the everglades are now in a state of recovery.

I said it before, and I'll say it again....TCD is a true super-sleuth & story conveyer extraordinaire!!

 

[DisCamper]

My dad worked for WEDD on the 70’s and into the 80”s in the early to mid 80’s WDW was looking to break away for Orange county and start it own county to save on paying taxes and would still have control over everything.