Update: Magic Key Holder Settlement Reached, Plus Rumor: Renewal for Magic Key Holders Tomorrow?

[dina444444]

That’s right, they did delay that announcement of renewals. But that only affected the people who bought Magic Keys in the very first month right? And then they were able to renew … as well as all Magic Key holders going forward.

Yes

 

[Foxhound3857]

Yeah the root of the problem is they are selling the annual passes way too cheap.

Does that mean we should expect a price increase when Keys resume sales in a month or so?

 

[MillauFr]

Does that mean we should expect a price increase when Keys resume sales in a month or so?

I think they need to eliminate unlimited annual passes. It encourages overuse. Moving to a points system with variable prices to balance supply and demand would improve the guest experience.

 

[dina444444]

I think they need to eliminate unlimited annual passes. It encourages overuse. Moving to a points system with variable prices to balance supply and demand would improve the guest experience.

That would be a big huge turn off for me.

 

[dina444444]

Does that mean we should expect a price increase when Keys resume sales in a month or so?

I'm not fully expecting price increases or significant ones given the targeting discounting going on as a whole with Disney right now. Disney announced the first I've ever seen discount on VIP tour to blue card dvc members for select dates starting in mid August.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

I think they need to eliminate unlimited annual passes. It encourages overuse. Moving to a points system with variable prices to balance supply and demand would improve the guest experience.

That would be a big huge turn off for me.

I agree @dina444444, I wouldn’t even buy something like that.

 

[taaren]

I think they need to eliminate unlimited annual passes. It encourages overuse. Moving to a points system with variable prices to balance supply and demand would improve the guest experience.

I'm sure if Disney parks thought a points system for annual passes would be profitable they would have done it. They do so much research, so many surveys on guest experiences and AP holders patterns (and D23 members, and DVC members, DCL cruisers, and all the other buckets of customers). I suspect the first response on this thread was right, if they had priced the Magic Keys higher, there'd be less holders (for everything other than Inspire since they're the only ones not sold out). I hope they don't raise the price since I get a great value out of our Believe Keys going 6ish weekends/year, but apparently there's too many people willing to pay that if they keep selling out. They're trying to hit a sweet spot with not making the passes more than buying daily tickets (eg I'm not getting a Key for one of my party who is only going to make it to 2 or 3 of the visits) by filling in with the California resident special tickets and pricing them higher for weekends. That's a better control mechanism for demand that they can offer if they see reservations by locals/Californians are down or not offer if theres too many of us taking room away from out of state people who may be buying more merch/experiences, etc.
Someday I'd love to see the algorithms on how DLParks maximizes profits on entrance costs explained, they must be amazingly complicated. Maybe that should be a DCL presentation.

 

[StormyCA]

As far as a 'points' or a system where you buy pass based on days of admission (30, 60, 90, 120 days, etc) again I can see where it wouldn't appeal to 'frequent flyer' locals, but could very well appeal to non-locals or 'occasional visit' locals.

I'm not saying they're actually interested in doing this, but there have been so many headaches for them (seems to me) with all access passes they might decide they aren't worth the hassle anymore even if they are money makers.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

As far as a 'points' or a system where you buy pass based on days of admission (30, 60, 90, 120 days, etc) again I can see where it wouldn't appeal to 'frequent flyer' locals, but could very well appeal to non-locals or 'occasional visit' locals.

I'm not saying they're actually interested in doing this, but there have been so many headaches for them (seems to me) with all access passes they might decide they aren't worth the hassle anymore even if they are money makers.

I personally would love something like this as long as there weren't any block out dates. We were AP holders for years and had a magic key for a year, but I ended up giving it up last year as all the blockout dates (on weekends and/or over the holidays) made it not worth it for us as we travel from Northern California and like to visit at least every other Christmas. We were signature plus AP holders before the pandemic and that always worked for us.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I'm sure if Disney parks thought a points system for annual passes would be profitable they would have done it. They do so much research, so many surveys on guest experiences and AP holders patterns (and D23 members, and DVC members, DCL cruisers, and all the other buckets of customers). I suspect the first response on this thread was right, if they had priced the Magic Keys higher, there'd be less holders (for everything other than Inspire since they're the only ones not sold out). I hope they don't raise the price since I get a great value out of our Believe Keys going 6ish weekends/year, but apparently there's too many people willing to pay that if they keep selling out. They're trying to hit a sweet spot with not making the passes more than buying daily tickets (eg I'm not getting a Key for one of my party who is only going to make it to 2 or 3 of the visits) by filling in with the California resident special tickets and pricing them higher for weekends. That's a better control mechanism for demand that they can offer if they see reservations by locals/Californians are down or not offer if theres too many of us taking room away from out of state people who may be buying more merch/experiences, etc.
Someday I'd love to see the algorithms on how DLParks maximizes profits on entrance costs explained, they must be amazingly complicated. Maybe that should be a DCL presentation.

Is it true that Disney favors regular ticket holders and tourists over key/AP holders? Seems kinda shady and wrong to give priority to the people who likely only buy tickets once a year (some only once in their lifetimes) over the ones willing to lay down a wad of cash immediately for an AP and show loyalty by coming on a regular basis.

 

[brightlined]

Is it true that Disney favors regular ticket holders and tourists over key/AP holders? Seems kinda shady and wrong to give priority to the people who likely only buy tickets once a year (some only once in their lifetimes) over the ones willing to lay down a wad of cash immediately for an AP and show loyalty by coming on a regular basis.

I'm not sure that "true" is exactly the right answer, but, for all intents and purposes, yes.

From a business standpoint, an AP is a bulk-purchase of a product at a major discount. Day tickets are paying full price. I disagree that it's "shady" to give priority to the people willing to pay full price - that's the standard for most business operations.

That's why the blackouts are there. Disney is using APs to sell excess (less-desirable) inventory at a discount.

The main reason that people think APs are the higher tier is marketing - Disney wants people to think it's a bigger deal. (It's also because of the amount of money they've personally spent - it feels like something important that deserves "respect".) But if they really did the math on what a Key gets you versus what it would cost to go to the park even a quarter of the time it's valid - that's thousands dollars of difference.

APs often know all of the tricks, too. Like, if you're only going to go once, are you going to have any idea how to get a reservation to Blue Bayou? At the end of the day, it evens out.

That doesn't mean that Disney puts them a much higher priority. But, yes, a higher priority.

And, personally, as a fan, I think it's morally the right thing to do. If someone's going to Disneyland "only once in their lifetimes", I want them to have as much priority as they can get. I've done it all, multiple times - I want them to experience as much of that they can. I'll come back tomorrow.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I'm not sure that "true" is exactly the right answer, but, for all intents and purposes, yes.

From a business standpoint, an AP is a bulk-purchase of a product at a major discount. Day tickets are paying full price. I disagree that it's "shady" to give priority to the people willing to pay full price - that's the standard for most business operations.

That's why the blackouts are there. Disney is using APs to sell excess (less-desirable) inventory at a discount.

The main reason that people think APs are the higher tier is marketing - Disney wants people to think it's a bigger deal. (It's also because of the amount of money they've personally spent - it feels like something important that deserves "respect".) But if they really did the math on what a Key gets you versus what it would cost to go to the park even a quarter of the time it's valid - that's thousands dollars of difference.

APs often know all of the tricks, too. Like, if you're only going to go once, are you going to have any idea how to get a reservation to Blue Bayou? At the end of the day, it evens out.

That doesn't mean that Disney puts them a much higher priority. But, yes, a higher priority.

And, personally, as a fan, I think it's morally the right thing to do. If someone's going to Disneyland "only once in their lifetimes", I want them to have as much priority as they can get. I've done it all, multiple times - I want them to experience as much of that they can. I'll come back tomorrow.

That is a good point, I suppose. If someone is only going to go once in their lifetime, I'd like it to be a time to remember.

If Disney sees it as a loss of profit though, it makes me wonder if they're going to abandon AP's altogether at some point, or at least put a bigger restriction on it, something like "May only go once a month."

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

That is a good point, I suppose. If someone is only going to go once in their lifetime, I'd like it to be a time to remember.

If Disney sees it as a loss of profit though, it makes me wonder if they're going to abandon AP's altogether at some point, or at least put a bigger restriction on it, something like "May only go once a month."

I would be very surprised to see this happen. Everyone always operates on the impression that Disney is somehow doing us all a favor by “allowing” annual passes but the truth is, if it wasn’t profitable for the company they wouldn’t do it. Disney wants annual passholders in the parks.

The most interesting thing I have noticed is that they are limiting sales of the lower level passes but the highest tier pass (the one I have, incidentally) remains available for sale. That tells me they want more people who have more money and who are willing to spend it in the parks, and fewer people who buy the cheapest pass, then come to the parks, pack a lunch and spend next to no money inside the parks.

If anything, they might just kill off the lower two passes and be done with it.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

I'm not sure that "true" is exactly the right answer, but, for all intents and purposes, yes.

From a business standpoint, an AP is a bulk-purchase of a product at a major discount. Day tickets are paying full price. I disagree that it's "shady" to give priority to the people willing to pay full price - that's the standard for most business operations.

That's why the blackouts are there. Disney is using APs to sell excess (less-desirable) inventory at a discount.

The main reason that people think APs are the higher tier is marketing - Disney wants people to think it's a bigger deal. (It's also because of the amount of money they've personally spent - it feels like something important that deserves "respect".) But if they really did the math on what a Key gets you versus what it would cost to go to the park even a quarter of the time it's valid - that's thousands dollars of difference.

APs often know all of the tricks, too. Like, if you're only going to go once, are you going to have any idea how to get a reservation to Blue Bayou? At the end of the day, it evens out.

That doesn't mean that Disney puts them a much higher priority. But, yes, a higher priority.

And, personally, as a fan, I think it's morally the right thing to do. If someone's going to Disneyland "only once in their lifetimes", I want them to have as much priority as they can get. I've done it all, multiple times - I want them to experience as much of that they can. I'll come back tomorrow.

In the beginning, Disney sold these Magic Keys, marketed them like the old annual passes, but said you may not be able to go if the parks were sold out of reservations. I think the majority of people understand how a system like this works and were on board with it.

But what Disney did NOT disclose at the time of selling the first Magic Keys, was that the day park tickets would have separate “buckets” of availability than the Magic Keys. So a Magic Key holder might be “sold out” while the park was still accepting reservations for day tickets.

Further, single park tickets have different availability than park hoppers, and the different Magic Keys have different “buckets” as well. So a single park ticket might be “sold out” for a day; while a park hoppers could book that day. Or a Believe Key might have available reservations but an Enchant Key might be “sold out.” (This is especially annoying when your family members don’t all have the same key.)

So in essence, Disney can cap the Magic Key reservations on any given day to anything they want, while still allowing guests into the park via other ticket types. No one knows where the line is drawn, or how often that changes.

Those aspects of the Magic Key program are pretty shady to me. And I hope Disney addresses those. The lack of transparency means you don’t really know what type of access you will have when buying a Magic Key.

Personally, I’ve never had an issue getting a park reservation. Sometimes I have to wait until the night before to book, but only one time have I been unable to get a reservation I wanted (for Candlelight).

 

[Foxhound3857]

I would be very surprised to see this happen. Everyone always operates on the impression that Disney is somehow doing us all a favor by “allowing” annual passes but the truth is, if it wasn’t profitable for the company they wouldn’t do it. Disney wants annual passholders in the parks.

The most interesting thing I have noticed is that they are limiting sales of the lower level passes but the highest tier pass (the one I have, incidentally) remains available for sale. That tells me they want more people who have more money and who are willing to spend it in the parks, and fewer people who buy the cheapest pass, then come to the parks, pack a lunch and spend next to no money inside the parks.

If anything, they might just kill off the lower two passes and be done with it.

If they did that and re-opened Believe keys, I'd probably be willing to drop the money on one. That one is surprisingly sold out too though, and it seems to be the worst tradeoff of benefits and days vs cost, if you compare it to the Inspire and Enchant tiers. Figured it'd be less popular than Inspire at least.

As it stands, Enchant is the one I'm eyeing at the moment because I work weekends which are blacked out for the Enchant tier anyway, its benefits really aren't much worse than Believe tier, and its calendar is otherwise very workable for me.

 

[kikismom]

Does anyone have speculation if they'll open up new purchases for the three lower tiers again? I'd really like to take a few extra trips this year and it would be nice to already have tickets paid for. We're going in December and am hopeful that I can upgrade our park tickets to an annual pass.

I hadn't been paying attention much to annual passes as it wasn't something I saw in the near future. My daughter is getting older now and I'd like to go as much as possible before she hits the age where I drive her crazy.

 

[Foxhound3857]

Does anyone have speculation if they'll open up new purchases for the three lower tiers again? I'd really like to take a few extra trips this year and it would be nice to already have tickets paid for. We're going in December and am hopeful that I can upgrade our park tickets to an annual pass.

I hadn't been paying attention much to annual passes as it wasn't something I saw in the near future. My daughter is getting older now and I'd like to go as much as possible before she hits the age where I drive her crazy.

The best estimate I can glean is that key sales may resume by the end of August or in early September. I'm waiting for an opportunity to get an Enchant Key as well.

 

[gelatoni fan]

In the beginning, Disney sold these Magic Keys, marketed them like the old annual passes, but said you may not be able to go if the parks were sold out of reservations. I think the majority of people understand how a system like this works and were on board with it.

But what Disney did NOT disclose at the time of selling the first Magic Keys, was that the day park tickets would have separate “buckets” of availability than the Magic Keys. So a Magic Key holder might be “sold out” while the park was still accepting reservations for day tickets.

Further, single park tickets have different availability than park hoppers, and the different Magic Keys have different “buckets” as well. So a single park ticket might be “sold out” for a day; while a park hoppers could book that day. Or a Believe Key might have available reservations but an Enchant Key might be “sold out.” (This is especially annoying when your family members don’t all have the same key.)

So in essence, Disney can cap the Magic Key reservations on any given day to anything they want, while still allowing guests into the park via other ticket types. No one knows where the line is drawn, or how often that changes.

Those aspects of the Magic Key program are pretty shady to me. And I hope Disney addresses those. The lack of transparency means you don’t really know what type of access you will have when buying a Magic Key.

Personally, I’ve never had an issue getting a park reservation. Sometimes I have to wait until the night before to book, but only one time have I been unable to get a reservation I wanted (for Candlelight).

I completely agree here. It makes things really difficult if friends with different types of passes and tickets want to go together. When I had a Magic Key, I would sometimes leave the park to eat with friends who had Magic Keys but not reservations. It was dumb that they couldn't just come join me for dinner in the parks and World of Color or something. So Disney lost out on food sales and lost multiple customers who didn't renew.

This year, I spent just under $300 for 3 day California resident tickets and food. If not for the fact that someone asked me to go and I was already in Socal, I would have spent nothing on Disneyland. In the AP era, I spent multiple times that and lots of my friends and family bought tickets because I asked if they wanted to go with me.

And a related story: On my last trip, the line to enter Disneyland was held up because this family didn't know they had to make reservations. The crazy thing was that the had just bought their paper tickets from the ticket booth and the CM there didn't make reservations for them. The mother had downloaded the app but the CM at the turnstile had to call in a manager because she didn't know how to get them reservations either.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

If they did that and re-opened Believe keys, I'd probably be willing to drop the money on one. That one is surprisingly sold out too though, and it seems to be the worst tradeoff of benefits and days vs cost, if you compare it to the Inspire and Enchant tiers. Figured it'd be less popular than Inspire at least.

As it stands, Enchant is the one I'm eyeing at the moment because I work weekends which are blacked out for the Enchant tier anyway, its benefits really aren't much worse than Believe tier, and its calendar is otherwise very workable for me.

I currently have Inspire and my boys have Believe. The new blockouts for the Believe key are making me seriously consider dropping them down to Enchant and me to Believe. Believe used to be great, but at the new price point and with SO many more blockouts the value is so poor now.

It will save me $$$$ to do this on the front end with the key purchases and I would simply go less (because we will have fewer available days to go, summer blocked, etc.). Which means I’ll spend less overall in the parks as well. Saving me tons on money over a year’s time and I could still go fairly frequently.

The only one who loses is Disney … they lose all that money I would have spent … year after year. I know we can become accustomed to going less frequently and we will still get a lot of use out of the keys. And I’ll keep a ton of money for non-Disney things.

 

[Foxhound3857]

I currently have Inspire and my boys have Believe. The new blockouts for the Believe key are making me seriously consider dropping them down to Enchant and me to Believe. Believe used to be great, but at the new price point and with SO many more blockouts the value is so poor now.

It will save me $$$$ to do this on the front end with the key purchases and I would simply go less (because we will have fewer available days to go, summer blocked, etc.). Which means I’ll spend less overall in the parks as well. Saving me tons on money over a year’s time and I could still go fairly frequently.

The only one who loses is Disney … they lose all that money I would have spent … year after year. I know we can become accustomed to going less frequently and we will still get a lot of use out of the keys. And I’ll keep a ton of money for non-Disney things.

Since I work weekends the blockouts don't really affect me, other than during vacation time. Holidays are too busy for me to really enjoy them (I don't like big crowds), and I don't like being out in the heat either, so being blocked out for the summer doesn't bother me too much either. The remainder of the Enchant calendar seems like it's perfect for me with Mon/Tues off. Do my errands Sunday night, take a trip Monday, rest Tuesday, and back to work Wednesday.

I could make monthly visits with a routine like that.