Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[only hope]

Wow, it still seems confusing to me. My husband would need an ECV and I can get by for a while, but might need to rent one onsite. I think we will stick with the ECV for him and bypass trying to get the accessability card. Maybe Universal will have this all straightened out one day, and not so confusing for most people. Thanks again

At Universal, you don’t need to go through this process unless there is a reason one of your party cannot wait in standard queues. Also, unless the policy changed recently, you should know that ECV’s are not allowed in queues except for Hogwarts Express at Universal. Wheelchairs
are allowed, including electric. So if either of you are unable to walk the queue, you have to wait for a complimentary wheelchair to be brought to the ride entrance- and they could all be in use when you arrive to the attraction entrance. I’m not sure if team members are allowed to push anyone if there is no one in the party who can do so.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Got the notice today our ibcces was approved, so glad that's done. One less step to do!

 

[JLTraveling]

At Universal, you don’t need to go through this process unless there is a reason one of your party cannot wait in standard queues.

Just a wild guess, but I'm wondering if this is what makes the new process legal, or at least makes Universal's attorneys believe that is (since it hasn't been litigated). Everyone, regardless of disability, is welcome to come to the park and A: Wait in the mainstreamed standard queues or B: Purchase an Express Pass. Accommodations such as waiting outside the mainstreamed queues would theoretically be considered "better" rather than "equal" access. I am NOT a lawyer, and not taking a position on this either way, just wondering if that's where the justification for the process is coming from.

 

[Keladry84]

Just a wild guess, but I'm wondering if this is what makes the new process legal, or at least makes Universal's attorneys believe that is (since it hasn't been litigated). Everyone, regardless of disability, is welcome to come to the park and A: Wait in the mainstreamed standard queues or B: Purchase an Express Pass. Accommodations such as waiting outside the mainstreamed queues would theoretically be considered "better" rather than "equal" access. I am NOT a lawyer, and not taking a position on this either way, just wondering if that's where the justification for the process is coming from.

Also not a lawyer....

Looking at your conjecture, I can see the first half as a maybe - that everyone has the ability to enter the park spontaneously (albeit might not get the accommodation if so), and has opportunity to buy an express pass.

However, characterizing the accommodation as a "better" access is inaccurate. Those who are using it need it just to gain ACCESS to an attraction. Case in point:

*Even with the AAP, not all attractions at all times are accessible. My most recent trip, I got a return time for the Mummy when the standby was 90 minutes. After my wait, I went back to ride. The standy by that time had jumped to 120 minutes, meaning express wait was estimated at 60 minutes - I can't do that long of a wait in a queue environment, so I couldn't ride. So, I waited c 90 minutes to not get to ride an attraction. If I had ridden, my wait time with AAP would have been c 150 minutes total, which was almost double the amount of standby at the time I could theoretically have ridden without it, and also longer than the current 120 minute wait that was posted. This is not "better" access, and in this case also provided me with no access.

*I used an AAP my most recent trip, but didn't have one my first time at UO as I didn't know about it's existence. My difficulty with the lines is not the actual wait time, but the design and environment of the queue. Depending on the circumstances, I can wait a very long time (if free of adverse sensory input), or almost no time needing to exit immediately. Most waiting environments fall somewhere in between. UO designs and controls the ride queues. They could design ones that provide me access to the attraction (similar to how they have re-designed queues for physical disabilities), but instead choose ones with theming and environments that add to the sensory overload, preventing me from being able to ride because I can't maneuver through the queues.

I'm a huge Harry Potter fan. My first trip I never got to ride Hagrid's - the line wait time never went down far enough for me to attempt it without knowing the queue environment ahead of time. A handful of other rides I managed to catch at really low wait times (basically walk-on), but realized I would not have been able to do these in that queue environment if wait times were longer and would have been one and done's if not for now having the AAP. The AAP gives me ACCESS to attractions that I otherwise would not have most of the time. My 2nd trip was much better because I did not have to worry as much about stalking the app for rides I could actually 'do' with the current wait time, and I was finally able to experience Hagrid's! Still, there were things I could not do or ride (Mummy) even with the AAP.

Please don't characterize the AAP as being a "better" experience than that of others. Doing so helps to add stigma to those who need it just to gain access. It also incentivizes people to try to cheat the system to get it and encourages others to judge those who need it.

 

[JLTraveling]

Please don't characterize the AAP as being a "better" experience than that of others. Doing so helps to add stigma to those who need it just to gain access. It also incentivizes people to try to cheat the system to get it and encourages others to judge those who need it.

I'm not characterizing it as anything. I actually travel with my father, who has a GAP pass (which IS "better" access, and for which he had to provide a ream of medical documentation directly to Universal's disability manager years before the new process came about). And he 100% could not do the parks without it. So please don't shoot the messenger. I was just spitballing about what UNIVERSAL, or more specifically their lawyers, might think.

 

[disneyseniors]

Just to clarify this point because it comes up a lot... Theme parks are not a covered entity under HIPAA. HIPAA only pertains to medical professionals sharing your information with other medical facilities/professionals/billing/insurance/etc. for legitimate needs related to your treatment or care. Your doctor will NOT answer questions directly from a theme park or IBCCES. But your doctor may write a letter, provide it to you and YOU share it with a theme park or IBCCES or anyone else.

However, as PP alludes, there ARE laws about retention of sensitive information that is collected by anyone. In this case, it is IBCCES and what do they do with that info, where/how is it stored and for how long, how is it destroyed to ensure it doesn't get inadvertently shared or misdirected.

Thank you, again! That clears it up for me and is very helpful! I just want to say that your experience on here has really helped in a lot of areas

 

[Angel Ariel]

Please don't characterize the AAP as being a "better" experience than that of others. Doing so helps to add stigma to those who need it just to gain access. It also incentivizes people to try to cheat the system to get it and encourages others to judge those who need it.

This,

 

[starlite_]

*I used an AAP my most recent trip, but didn't have one my first time at UO as I didn't know about it's existence. My difficulty with the lines is not the actual wait time, but the design and environment of the queue. Depending on the circumstances, I can wait a very long time (if free of adverse sensory input), or almost no time needing to exit immediately. Most waiting environments fall somewhere in between. UO designs and controls the ride queues. They could design ones that provide me access to the attraction (similar to how they have re-designed queues for physical disabilities), but instead choose ones with theming and environments that add to the sensory overload, preventing me from being able to ride because I can't maneuver through the queues.

Out of curiosity, would a separate queue that looked like a white hallway (just for hypothesis sake) be ok for you to do a 120 min line?

 

[Keladry84]

Out of curiosity, would a separate queue that looked like a white hallway (just for hypothesis sake) be ok for you to do a 120 min line?

It would depend on the number of people in the hallway and what they are doing, if there is sound dampener or echo going on, if they have music and/or lights with it, how narrow the hallway is etc. I actually do best with outdoor queues that are not switchback as they allow more space and less sensory overload.

I waited 4 hours in Heathrow airport in a line after a missed flight, and was fine - but the area we were in was a large open room, with the line being off to a side with nothing else really in the area besides us, so no extra stimulation, sound could dissipate, and no crowding or people shoving around/into me. Controversely at Universal I road Fast and Furious single rider and basically just walked through the queue and directly onto the ride vehicle. The music was so loud in there it physically hurt and I wouldn't have been able to even wait one or two ride cycles with that going on. It really just depends on what the environment is like.

 

[sarabguerra]

We arrive in 33 days. I have submitted, and have "approved cards" from IBCCES for my two kiddos. And I received an email from Universal asking about our dates of travel about 2-3 weeks ago. I've had no follow-up from them. We had the AAC cards for all 3 of my kiddos last trip in 2021, one is a WC user with other needs as well. Is there a follow-up I should be doing on my end? How far out do they contact about renewing AACs? We're doing a split stay at Disney, so I'll be handling our DAS next weekend too. What a mess.

And FWIW, I've been IBCCES Autism certified provider for years and this whole process of certifying other disabilities is appalling. This is so outside what IBCCEs is known for, it baffles me!

 

[Angel Ariel]

And FWIW, I've been IBCCES Autism certified provider for years and this whole process of certifying other disabilities is appalling. This is so outside what IBCCEs is known for, it baffles me!

This is my biggest issue. I read through the bios of the board for IBCCES. There's nothing, IMO, that gives them any kind of expertise to be verifying disabilities other than autism. If this is an area they continue to expand, then seriously need to diversify.

 

[lanejudy]

certifying other disabilities is appalling

verifying disabilities

IBCCES isn’t actually “certifying” anything. They are literally checking a box that you submitted some form of documentation. Nothing about the disability is passed along to the theme park. They don’t need to know or understand anything about any given disability. Just look at the submitted documentation and check a box. Anybody who thinks otherwise simply needs to read this thread for some of the reports of what has been accepted as “documentation.”

 

[Angel Ariel]

IBCCES isn’t actually “certifying” anything. They are literally checking a box that you submitted some form of documentation. Nothing about the disability is passed along to the theme park. They don’t need to know or understand anything about any given disability. Just look at the submitted documentation and check a box. Anybody who thinks otherwise simply needs to read this thread for some of the reports of what has been accepted as “documentation.”

I do understand this, which is why I feel this is all theatre and not actually preventing abuse. And I don't appreciate the extra time this whole process took (too coordinate for that documentation with our dr), for it to be theatre. I truly hope Disney doesn't move to this.

 

[Evita_W]

I do understand this, which is why I feel this is all theatre and not actually preventing abuse. And I don't appreciate the extra time this whole process took (too coordinate for that documentation with our dr), for it to be theatre. I truly hope Disney doesn't move to this.

There is now a lawsuit against Six Flags about this that is moving forward, it will be interesting to see how that comes out, but I would imagine all theme parks will watch it closely. The only real question is how much will Six Flags try to defend the policy now that they are merging with Cedar Fair and Cedar Far doesn't like Six Flags system by all accounts, since Cedar Fair will be taking charge but keeping the Six Flags name, it is possible they won't invest much in fighting it and instead settle by saying they will stop using this system. The basic points of the lawsuit are that ADA states that you do not need to submit proof to get equal access and that any other guest can simply show up at the park and enjoy the attractions, but if you have a disability you have to go through these extra steps to even be able to access the attractions. I am way oversimplifying here, but gives an idea.

But whatever the outcome is, it will have massive ramifications for Universal and all other theme parks that use this system.

Just my two cents on what I can see at this point.

 

[lanejudy]

But whatever the outcome is, it will have massive ramifications for Universal and all other theme parks that use this system.

I agree that there is definitely potential for impact on other theme parks using the IBCCES program. However, if Six Flags ends up settling out of court it could depend on the terms of that settlement -- there may or may not be much of an impact to other venues. To my knowledge (and admittedly I have not looked up the lawsuit specifics) IBCCES is not named as a defendant, only Six Flags.

 

[Evita_W]

I agree that there is definitely potential for impact on other theme parks using the IBCCES program. However, if Six Flags ends up settling out of court it could depend on the terms of that settlement -- there may or may not be much of an impact to other venues. To my knowledge (and admittedly I have not looked up the lawsuit specifics) IBCCES is not named as a defendant, only Six Flags.

That is my understanding as well and yes, if they settle out of court it may not have as much of an impact. And technically I don't think IBCCES is doing anything wrong on their end, it is the fact that theme parks are requiring those who are disabled to use them, so it would make sense that they wouldn't be named as a defendant, not point wasting money going after them. Again, just my two cents.

Given all of this, here is how I think there could be a hybrid of using and not using IBCCES:

• Provide assistance passes to those that need them without the need of using IBCCES, but you have to go into guest services every day to get a pass.
• Alternatively use IBCCES and your assistance pass remains valid without a visit to guest services until one of the following applies, then you would need to go to guest services again:
  • Your admission media expires
  • Your IBCCES expires
  • You need to change the people associated with your pass

This would strongly encourage people to use the IBCCES system without requiring them to do so and would in theory satisfy most people.

 

[DisneyOma]

That is my understanding as well and yes, if they settle out of court it may not have as much of an impact. And technically I don't think IBCCES is doing anything wrong on their end, it is the fact that theme parks are requiring those who are disabled to use them, so it would make sense that they wouldn't be named as a defendant, not point wasting money going after them. Again, just my two cents.

Given all of this, here is how I think there could be a hybrid of using and not using IBCCES:

• Provide assistance passes to those that need them without the need of using IBCCES, but you have to go into guest services every day to get a pass.
• Alternatively use IBCCES and your assistance pass remains valid without a visit to guest services until one of the following applies, then you would need to go to guest services again:
  • Your admission media expires
  • Your IBCCES expires
  • You need to change the people associated with your pass

This would strongly encourage people to use the IBCCES system without requiring them to do so and would in theory satisfy most people.

Requiring guests who do not want to give their info to IBCCES to access guest services everyday is not equitable access.

 

[keishashadow]

I do understand this, which is why I feel this is all theatre and not actually preventing abuse. And I don't appreciate the extra time this whole process took (too coordinate for that documentation with our dr), for it to be theatre. I truly hope Disney doesn't move to this.

i’d think even the “theatre” you reference may provide some level of deterrence to those trying to game the system.

at least there is a more standardized system in place at U now. flawed as it might be, people seem to be adjusting to it. I’m of the you don’t have to like it, do have to comply if you want the accommodation sort, is what it is.

am curious as to what success people are having appealing a negative decision of either IBCCES or U. Hopefully, working out for them. Would like to think there is some sort of review process or you can reapply if circumstances do change.

I’m sure if people do get annoyed enough feeling discriminated against (not the term I’m fruitlessly searching for here btw, don’t mean to offend anyone), etc., they will file or join a class action suit of some sort to address their concerns.

Seriously, I doubt anyone among us appreciates adhering to the steps necessary to comply with these requirements. However, they are clearly stated & the new system has indeed worked very well for many people.

Even better IMO if one only will need to easily rectify each year after the initial approval with IBCCES (vs going thru another Universal interview)

 

[JLTraveling]

i’d think even the “theatre” you reference may provide some level of deterrence to those trying to game the system.

at least there is a more standardized system in place at U now. flawed as it might be, people seem to be adjusting to it. I’m of the you don’t have to like it, do have to comply if you want the accommodation sort, is what it is.

am curious as to what success people are having appealing a negative decision of either IBCCES or U. Hopefully, working out for them. Would like to think there is some sort of review process or you can reapply if circumstances do change.

I’m sure if people do get annoyed enough feeling discriminated against (not the term I’m fruitlessly searching for here btw, don’t mean to offend anyone), etc., they will file or join a class action suit of some sort to address their concerns.

Seriously, I doubt anyone among us appreciates adhering to the steps necessary to comply with these requirements. However, they are clearly stated & the new system has indeed worked very well for many people.

Even better IMO if one only will need to easily rectify each year after the initial approval with IBCCES (vs going thru another Universal interview)

I agree with you. And to my way of thinking, this actually makes it easier in a lot of ways. Yes, the initial documentation submission is a pain. But then you go through the Universal interview (with someone who actually has special disability training) once and that's it. Renew the IBCCES card once a year, and you never have to deal with Universal asking questions again. Versus the old way, where every trip you had to go to guest services and convince a completely untrained Guest Services rep that you needed accommodations. I'm not quite clear on how that process was any more equitable than this one is???

 

[Jdavidm]

I agree with you. And to my way of thinking, this actually makes it easier in a lot of ways. Yes, the initial documentation submission is a pain. But then you go through the Universal interview (with someone who actually has special disability training) once and that's it. Renew the IBCCES card once a year, and you never have to deal with Universal asking questions again. Versus the old way, where every trip you had to go to guest services and convince a completely untrained Guest Services rep that you needed accommodations. I'm not quite clear on how that process was any more equitable than this one is???

Exactly. And those of us who don’t “look disabled” (in the eye of those employees) could easily be doubted or even denied with the old process. Every visit started out with stress for me because of this. I have documentation, let me show that once versus being questioned every single time.

With the new process I only have to show up and pickup my specific accommodation that I know I’m guaranteed to have every visit. This makes my arrival to the park more equal to a non-disabled guest because I can actually be excited to be arriving at the park versus stressed about the process at guest relations. And if you ask me, that change alone makes the initial extra steps worth it.