Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[SueM in MN]

Just saw this news item:
A Disabled Veteran is suing Six Flags for ADA violation based on needing to provide proof of disability through IBCCES
The lawsuit was filed recently - one news article said 12/27/2023 and this one didn't mention the date. Six Flags uses IBCCES, the same as Universal switched to in July of this year

 

[JLTraveling]

Just saw this news item:
A Disabled Veteran is suing Six Flags for ADA violation based on needing to provide proof of disability through IBCCES
The lawsuit was filed recently - one news article said 12/27/2023 and this one didn't mention the date. Six Flags uses IBCCES, the same as Universal switched to in July of this year

It looks to me like there are a couple of different issues being conflated in that article, and perhaps in his lawsuit. The Six Flags employees' behavior was appalling, and absolutely worth a lawsuit. But it seems to me that he didn't really have much issue going through the IBCCES steps themselves, before that happened. Now, probably on the advice of his lawyer, he's saying that the entire process is discriminatory.

But common sense would state that if the employee ripped up the card because the guy "didn't look disabled," he wouldn't have provided accommodations under the old system either. Again, I find the employee's behavior horrific, I am certainly not justifying it. But I feel like a judge/jury would look at what actually happened and want to know how NOT using the IBCCES process would have helped the guest in question get the accommodations he needed.

I'm of two minds on the whole IBCCES process, honestly. On the one hand, it does feel like extra hoops, especially when park employees are still making the ultimate decisions. On the other hand, at least from anecdotal evidence, it seems like people are more likely (though still not guaranteed) to get some kind of accommodation, since most (clearly not all) park employees seem to recognize that if someone was able to get the card there probably is an actual disability involved. And what's the alternative? Going back to park employees making the ENTIRE determination, including whether they personally believe the person is disabled. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So I finished submitting the documentation to IBCCES for our child for our trip to Universal Hollywood in a few weeks. It's been a long few months of various medical issues, so I wasn't able to take care of it as early as I would have liked to. My understanding now is that I don't have to do anything else - Universal will reach out before the trip if needed? If I don't hear from them, I assume we take the temporary card to guest services that morning? We're only going for 1 day.


in terms of the process, this is the first time we've done this. I understand it, but it's cumbersome and time sucking. It's taken 4 days just to get the documentation needed to submit. DD's academic documentation doesn't cover all the needs she experiences in a theme park, so we required a letter from her doctor. While i'm grateful that I didn't need to schedule an appointment, that it was all over portal conversation, I acknowledge the privilege I have in that the email portal was an option. My doctor hadn't done this before,and portal messages are character-limited, so the time spent creating screenshots and PDFs to get her the information she needed was much more time than we've ever spent on accommodations for Disney. And, TBH, none of it leaves me with increased confidence that people can't game this system too.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The IEP feature seems really handy for kids. Adults with disabilities are definitely in a tougher spot.

The IEP feature is only helpful if all accommodations a child will need in the park are covered in the IEP. IEPs only cover accommodations for things that are impacted in the academic environment. A school setting has so many physical, environmental and sensory differences to a theme park, a child can have disability-related accommodation needs in a theme park that they don't exhibit the need for in a school setting. (Speaking from experience).

 

[shosh1530]

The IEP feature is only helpful if all accommodations a child will need in the park are covered in the IEP. IEPs only cover accommodations for things that are impacted in the academic environment. A school setting has so many physical, environmental and sensory differences to a theme park, a child can have disability-related accommodation needs in a theme park that they don't exhibit the need for in a school setting. (Speaking from experience).

For future reference, I was able to submit the page of my son's that lists his diagnoses but that it had no info at all about his accommodations. We were approved with just that.

 

[Angel Ariel]

For future reference, I was able to submit the page of my son's that lists his diagnoses but that it had no info at all about his accommodations. We were approved with just that.

DD's main diagnosis is incredibly rare - 500 diagnoses in the world. IBCCES is primarily an autism related organization. Her diagnosis would mean nothing to them. Given its rare status, I also have significant concerns sharing it would increase the likelihood of her application being denied by someone presuming we're abusing the system.

Plus, for privacy sake for my daughter, I'd rather send in the letter my doctor wrote where she protected the privacy of DD's diagnosis while explaining in layman's terms why the accommodations are medically needed.

 

[gottalovepluto]

Just saw this news item:
A Disabled Veteran is suing Six Flags for ADA violation based on needing to provide proof of disability through IBCCES
The lawsuit was filed recently - one news article said 12/27/2023 and this one didn't mention the date. Six Flags uses IBCCES, the same as Universal switched to in July of this year

If this goes through an actual trial maybe we'll see a definitive answer on the legality of forcing people use IBCCES in order to be accommodated. Glad to see it be tested in CA, if there is a state where this thing won't pass muster it's CA. Nice to just get the question settled.

He filed it as a class action but is it possible Six Flags just settles with him and the whole thing dies? I don't know anything about how a normal lawsuit vs class action work. (I hope he gets something from them at least, to tear up his copy of that disability card while saying that stuff to him? wowza, bad.)

 

[PatMcDuck]

Just a quick followup, I submitted my doctors letter last month, I got an email a few weeks later saying they would call me closer to our trip (we arrive Feb 6th). So I will just wait to hear from them. Thanks everyone for the information on this thread.

 

[shosh1530]

DD's main diagnosis is incredibly rare - 500 diagnoses in the world. IBCCES is primarily an autism related organization. Her diagnosis would mean nothing to them. Given its rare status, I also have significant concerns sharing it would increase the likelihood of her application being denied by someone presuming we're abusing the system.

Plus, for privacy sake for my daughter, I'd rather send in the letter my doctor wrote where she protected the privacy of DD's diagnosis while explaining in layman's terms why the accommodations are medically needed.

It's great that your doctor was able to write the letter for you. I hope you are able to get the accommodations your daughter needs for your upcoming trip and that you have a wonderful time! We just got back from our time at Universal Hollywood and had a lot of fun.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just a quick followup, I submitted my doctors letter last month, I got an email a few weeks later saying they would call me closer to our trip (we arrive Feb 6th). So I will just wait to hear from them. Thanks everyone for the information on this thread.

To hear from who? IBCCES? I didn't have a place to put when our trip was in IBCCES

 

[razlime]

The IEP feature is only helpful if all accommodations a child will need in the park are covered in the IEP. IEPs only cover accommodations for things that are impacted in the academic environment. A school setting has so many physical, environmental and sensory differences to a theme park, a child can have disability-related accommodation needs in a theme park that they don't exhibit the need for in a school setting. (Speaking from experience).

DD's main diagnosis is incredibly rare - 500 diagnoses in the world. IBCCES is primarily an autism related organization. Her diagnosis would mean nothing to them. Given its rare status, I also have significant concerns sharing it would increase the likelihood of her application being denied by someone presuming we're abusing the system.

Someone else said this but I promise you that if there is basically any documentation of disability, your child will be approved. I submitted the first page of notes from a recent doctors visit that mentions my disability but has nothing to do with accommodations, theme parks, or symptoms. Most of the notes had to do with balancing meds. The decision on accommodations is up to Universal, not IBCCES. IBCCES is only confirming you have a disability to Universal.

They need proof you either have a disability that they know requires accommodations or that accommodations have been granted to you before. Almost anything will do, and if it doesn't work they'll email you for more detail. So the IEP feature is absolutely helpful - it proves the applicant needs/needed accommodations. A specific letter from your doctor sounds solid, but Universal doesn't see it so be prepared to repeat yourself when you talk to them!

Universal will only see answers you gave to specific questions ("Is the cardholder able to wait/queue in line for extended periods?" and "Is the cardholder able to stand in line with other guests?"). They can't see your documentation.

To hear from who? IBCCES? I didn't have a place to put when our trip was in IBCCES

When you filled out the IBCCES form, it asks where you're visiting. I selected Six Flags and Universal as I'll be visiting over the next year. That information went to Universal and they'll reach out via email asking when your trip is so they know a good time to call in advance.

 

[JLTraveling]

Someone else said this but I promise you that if there is basically any documentation of disability, your child will be approved. I submitted the first page of notes from a recent doctors visit that mentions my disability but has nothing to do with accommodations, theme parks, or symptoms. Most of the notes had to do with balancing meds. The decision on accommodations is up to Universal, not IBCCES. IBCCES is only confirming you have a disability to Universal.

They need proof you either have a disability that they know requires accommodations or that accommodations have been granted to you before. Almost anything will do, and if it doesn't work they'll email you for more detail. So the IEP feature is absolutely helpful - it proves the applicant needs/needed accommodations. A specific letter from your doctor sounds solid, but Universal doesn't see it so be prepared to repeat yourself when you talk to them!

Universal will only see answers you gave to specific questions ("Is the cardholder able to wait/queue in line for extended periods?" and "Is the cardholder able to stand in line with other guests?"). They can't see your documentation.


When you filled out the IBCCES form, it asks where you're visiting. I selected Six Flags and Universal as I'll be visiting over the next year. That information went to Universal and they'll reach out via email asking when your trip is so they know a good time to call in advance.

100% all of this. My dad actually submitted his handicap parking placard application, because in our state it lists specific limitations but not diagnosis, along with all the contact info for the doctor. It worked just fine. And I think your first point is so important for everyone to understand: IBCCES gets the documentation. Universal does not. IBCCES tells Universal that yes, you have a disability. From there, it's pretty much the same process with Universal that it always was: confirming WHY you need accommodations (what is it about the queue environment that doesn't work for you) plus some questions to determine WHICH accommodations would be best for you.

Also important to call out: For anyone who already has accommodations in the Universal system from a pre-IBCCES visit, if you have a case number/GC code/any sort of reference number for those accommodations, tell Universal during the phone call. They will simply shift your existing accommodations to the new system (but you do still have to go through the IBCCES process first). AND, once you're all set up with Universal, don't ever let your IBCCES card expire. As long as the card is valid, your accommodations will remain in place. If you let it expire, you'll have to start over again from the beginning.

 

[disneyseniors]

Just saw this news item:
A Disabled Veteran is suing Six Flags for ADA violation based on needing to provide proof of disability through IBCCES
The lawsuit was filed recently - one news article said 12/27/2023 and this one didn't mention the date. Six Flags uses IBCCES, the same as Universal switched to in July of this year

Sue, I am confused as to what exactly this IBCCES is and what you have to do? Do you have time give a quick explanation. Thank you.

 

[lanejudy]

Sue, I am confused as to what exactly this IBCCES is and what you have to do? Do you have time give a quick explanation. Thank you.

I'll answer for as much as I know, others are welcome to add...

IBCCES stands for the International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards. They claim to be "the industry leader in cognitive disorder training and certification for education, healthcare, corporate and travel & entertainment professionals around the globe." Such claims are generally hard to prove or disprove so take that as you may.

You've probably heard of various entertainment venues becoming "certified" in autism awareness or autism-friendly in recent years. I believe Sesame Place was the first, maybe back in 2018 (?). This is the organization behind whatever trainings for staff/management as well as the organization who "certifies" that level of standard. It usually means a certain percentage of their employees have been trained on "autism" and the facility/activity has certain offerings or protocols in place that may help individuals with cognitive or neurodiversity disabilities. Pretty much everything they do is autism-focused, though not to knock that as there is definitely some overlap in autism-related needs and other cognitive or neurodiversity disabilities.

The organization has expanded their attention from primarily education-focused at first to now offering training and certifications for the travel industry -- amusement parks, zoos, museums, etc. Along with the program/facility certification, they offer an "accessibility card" that they claim essentially "proves" an individual has a disability and may need accommodations, supposedly removing that decision making from the employees at the venue.

One big problem is the ADA generally frowns on requiring proof of a disability to receive basic accommodations equalizing access. The IBCCES Accessibility Card requires individuals to upload documentation as proof of disability, which IBCCES presumably reviews and accepts or denies (very few reports of being denied). However the entertainment venue (Universal Studios, Six Flags, etc.) still then makes determination of final "on-the-ground" accommodations that will/will not be offered to an individual. While that may seem to be a good situation for weeding out fakers of "invisible" disabilities, it really doesn't necessarily do that because the documentation folks are reporting they provide is so broad and varied and easily faked. Plus many of these venues presumably require this card for any disability including a wheelchair user to access a wheelchair ride vehicle, etc. Which just flies in the face of all logic.

It also means someone with a disability cannot wake up one morning and decide to go to the park for the day if they don't already have one of these pre-approvals on file. Which is contrary to the experience allowed to a non-disabled person. That appears to be the main premise of the lawsuit -- the need to pre-plan, get approval and still potentially be denied accommodation.

 

[disneyseniors]

I'll answer for as much as I know, others are welcome to add...

IBCCES stands for the International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards. They claim to be "the industry leader in cognitive disorder training and certification for education, healthcare, corporate and travel & entertainment professionals around the globe." Such claims are generally hard to prove or disprove so take that as you may.

You've probably heard of various entertainment venues becoming "certified" in autism awareness or autism-friendly in recent years. I believe Sesame Place was the first, maybe back in 2018 (?). This is the organization behind whatever trainings for staff/management as well as the organization who "certifies" that level of standard. It usually means a certain percentage of their employees have been trained on "autism" and the facility/activity has certain offerings or protocols in place that may help individuals with cognitive or neurodiversity disabilities. Pretty much everything they do is autism-focused, though not to knock that as there is definitely some overlap in autism-related needs and other cognitive or neurodiversity disabilities.

The organization has expanded their attention from primarily education-focused at first to now offering training and certifications for the travel industry -- amusement parks, zoos, museums, etc. Along with the program/facility certification, they offer an "accessibility card" that they claim essentially "proves" an individual has a disability and may need accommodations, supposedly removing that decision making from the employees at the venue.

One big problem is the ADA generally frowns on requiring proof of a disability to receive basic accommodations equalizing access. The IBCCES Accessibility Card requires individuals to upload documentation as proof of disability, which IBCCES presumably reviews and accepts or denies (very few reports of being denied). However the entertainment venue (Universal Studios, Six Flags, etc.) still then makes determination of final "on-the-ground" accommodations that will/will not be offered to an individual. While that may seem to be a good situation for weeding out fakers of "invisible" disabilities, it really doesn't necessarily do that because the documentation folks are reporting they provide is so broad and varied and easily faked. Plus many of these venues presumably require this card for any disability including a wheelchair user to access a wheelchair ride vehicle, etc. Which just flies in the face of all logic.

It also means someone with a disability cannot wake up one morning and decide to go to the park for the day if they don't already have one of these pre-approvals on file. Which is contrary to the experience allowed to a non-disabled person. That appears to be the main premise of the lawsuit -- the need to pre-plan, get approval and still potentially be denied accommodation.

Wow, thanks Lanejudy. I think I get the gist of it. It seems to Only apply to those with autism or cognitive problems?
I thought it would include all disabilities. But what I read sounds like it is only those problems.
So, since my husband has a mobility disability and I have a mobility disability, we wouldn't be required to try and get the IBCCES form?

So, since our disabilities are not cognitive in nature, then we could just apply at the guest services. Or do we need go get a doctor's statement. I thought those statements could not be ordered by anyone due to the privacy policy involved? (HIPPA)

This is not what I thought it was. It is a good thing for cognitive problems which seem rampant in our society these days. But, what about all the other disabilities, such as wheelchair dependency that you mentioned?
It's all very confusing to me.

Thank you for trying to explain a difficult concept to me If we try for the disability pass on our next visit, I guess I will just call Universal and see what needs to be done?

 

[lanejudy]

It seems to Only apply to those with autism or cognitive problems?
I thought it would include all disabilities.

Not necessarily...and that's one of the complaints. The organization is primarily focused on autism. But at least some of venues who are utilizing this "Accessibility Card" it supposedly applies to ALL disabilities, even use of a wheelchair.

If you plan to go to a Universal theme park, I think it depends on the type of accommodation you want/need/expect for your mobility accommodations. The Universal Orlando website indicates "shopping and dining facilities, attraction queues and certain attractions are all wheelchair accessible." If you might need an AAP (Attraction Access Pass) you will have to go through the IBCCES approval process. I honestly don't have first-hand experience to know what attractions are not accessible or if there is alternate option for someone with a mobility disability. Hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

[disneyseniors]

Not necessarily...and that's one of the complaints. The organization is primarily focused on autism. But at least some of venues who are utilizing this "Accessibility Card" it supposedly applies to ALL disabilities, even use of a wheelchair.

If you plan to go to a Universal theme park, I think it depends on the type of accommodation you want/need/expect for your mobility accommodations. The Universal Orlando website indicates "shopping and dining facilities, attraction queues and certain attractions are all wheelchair accessible." If you might need an AAP (Attraction Access Pass) you will have to go through the IBCCES approval process. I honestly don't have first-hand experience to know what attractions are not accessible or if there is alternate option for someone with a mobility disability. Hopefully someone else can chime in.

Wow, it still seems confusing to me. My husband would need an ECV and I can get by for a while, but might need to rent one onsite. I think we will stick with the ECV for him and bypass trying to get the accessability card. Maybe Universal will have this all straightened out one day, and not so confusing for most people. Thanks again

 

[Angel Ariel]

They need proof you either have a disability that they know requires accommodations or that accommodations have been granted to you before. Almost anything will do, and if it doesn't work they'll email you for more detail. So the IEP feature is absolutely helpful - it proves the applicant needs/needed accommodations. A specific letter from your doctor sounds solid, but Universal doesn't see it so be prepared to repeat yourself when you talk to them!

Universal will only see answers you gave to specific questions ("Is the cardholder able to wait/queue in line for extended periods?" and "Is the cardholder able to stand in line with other guests?"). They can't see your documentation.

Thank you - we'll be ready for that!

When you filled out the IBCCES form, it asks where you're visiting. I selected Six Flags and Universal as I'll be visiting over the next year. That information went to Universal and they'll reach out via email asking when your trip is so they know a good time to call in advance.

OK, I did see that and selected Universal Hollywood, but it didn't ask for timing of the trip, that's what I was confused about. THanks for the clarity!

 

[jlundeen]

Wow, it still seems confusing to me. My husband would need an ECV and I can get by for a while, but might need to rent one onsite. I think we will stick with the ECV for him and bypass trying to get the accessability card. Maybe Universal will have this all straightened out one day, and not so confusing for most people. Thanks again

My biggerst concern would be the privacy - how do they secure your info while gathering, and if they keep it... and what do they have in place to be sure that your/their emails are secure?

 

[lanejudy]

I thought those statements could not be ordered by anyone due to the privacy policy involved? (HIPPA)

Just to clarify this point because it comes up a lot... Theme parks are not a covered entity under HIPAA. HIPAA only pertains to medical professionals sharing your information with other medical facilities/professionals/billing/insurance/etc. for legitimate needs related to your treatment or care. Your doctor will NOT answer questions directly from a theme park or IBCCES. But your doctor may write a letter, provide it to you and YOU share it with a theme park or IBCCES or anyone else.

However, as PP alludes, there ARE laws about retention of sensitive information that is collected by anyone. In this case, it is IBCCES and what do they do with that info, where/how is it stored and for how long, how is it destroyed to ensure it doesn't get inadvertently shared or misdirected.