Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[OurBigTrip]

Agree with everything you said. To the above...UO's website seems to imply that only folks looking for the AAP need to use the new IBCCES process. However once you get to the IBCCES website it mentions needing the card for wheelchairs, service dogs, blind/vision, hearing disabilities, etc. So that is confusing as to how UO is accommodating various disabilities.

I agree that can be confusing, but I'm wondering if it's because the IBCCES card can be used at lots of places that don't necessarily have built-in (for lack of a better term) accommodations for wheelchair users.

 

[bambialways4ever]

The documentation should include a diagnosis and how it impacts the individual.

Does the individual have a "primary care" physician who receives reports from all specialists? That is the ideal in any situation, and as such the PCP would write the letter. It may take a conversation with you to discuss which diagnosis/need applies to the theme park situation.

And when applying be sure to check any/all boxes that might need accommodation. Don't try to rely on just 1. (Though I believe "bathroom" needs are not getting accommodation at UO at this point.)

No, they don't. The primary care doctor in question is assigned by our insurance and is the most garbage doctor I have ever had the misfortune to meet. The doctor is clueless, and knows nothing. The doctor is simply an access master to referrals to our specialists and a requirement for an annual physical for insurance.

The diagnoses have nothing to do with each other, so individual specialists are not or only vaguely aware of other diagnoses.

And I agree, but the reports I've been reading (like that reddit post) seem to be Universal getting caught up in what boxes the OP checked on the form.

My concern about "how it impacts the individual" is that many of the issues they face are SIMILAR to other more common and heavily stigmaed diagnoses that people love to be like "oh that sounds like my cousin have you tried X?"

But just because it seems similar, it is really not. So we have to start with DAS by being clear that this is a rare genetic mutation disorder, not something you think you may know about because it sounds like other issues.

And so how can I have certainty that a faceless corporation who knows nothing about this rare condition won't also assume it's "like X" and it doesn't meet their criteria (either because of stigma or being uninformed) and I have no human to follow up with (as far as I understand it)?

 

[OurBigTrip]

Honestly, I don't know how so many people are comfortable using this third party company. Who are these people that we are handing over our medical information to? How are they securing it? Who are these people to decide what kind of disabilities they think should get accommodations and which shouldn't? What are their qualifications? The whole thing sounds like a bit scam that these theme parks have fallen for.

Determine how someone has a disability? How about using the ADA definition?

ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. This includes people who have a record of such an impairment, even if they do not currently have a disability. It also includes individuals who do not have a disability but are regarded as having a disability.

 

[lanejudy]

I guess I can't help with the "which doctor" question if there isn't an adequate PCP serving as "gatekeeper." My DD also has a diagnosis that is a rare genetic mutation and most of her healthcare providers had never heard of it. The diagnosis itself means virtually nothing as it's just a label. It's the impact that puts her into the disability category. Different medical specialists are involved for different body systems to "treat" how she's impacted, and they are all aware of the over-arching diagnosis though may not understand exactly how other body systems are impacted. I guess we're fortunate that she has a great PED who receives and reviews reports from all specialists, and if for some reason a report isn't received she will track it down. Every appointment we review what's been going on since the prior visit including any specialists seen.

And so how can I have certainty that a faceless corporation who knows nothing about this rare condition won't also assume it's "like X" and it doesn't meet their criteria (either because of stigma or being uninformed) and I have no human to follow up with (as far as I understand it)?

With regards to declaring a disability exists, if the letter explains how the individual is impacted by the diagnosis that should give enough info to IBCCES to make the determination that it qualifies as a "disability." (see post above for definition.) If the documentation is denied, I think I've heard you can resubmit. But remember that IBCCES is NOT determining accommodations, just that a disability exists. Accommodations are determined by Universal directly.

 

[HereForHagrids]

And so how can I have certainty that a faceless corporation who knows nothing about this rare condition won't also assume it's "like X" and it doesn't meet their criteria (either because of stigma or being uninformed) and I have no human to follow up with (as far as I understand it)?

I have a rare genetic mutation too and I didn't even include that diagnosis on the paperwork I used. I used my short-term disability paperwork which only includes mental disability-related stuff. IBCCES approved me for all the accommodations I requested, even though they weren't all mentioned by the form I used. I've heard you can actually block out your diagnosis if you don't want IBCCES to know what it is. They just need info about how it impacts you or what accommodations you need. They weren't very strict about it at all, but I have heard of people getting denied. I'm not sure what they're using exactly to prove disability, but anything official seems to work, and it doesn't seem to need your official diagnosis.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No, they don't. The primary care doctor in question is assigned by our insurance and is the most garbage doctor I have ever had the misfortune to meet. The doctor is clueless, and knows nothing. The doctor is simply an access master to referrals to our specialists and a requirement for an annual physical for insurance.

The diagnoses have nothing to do with each other, so individual specialists are not or only vaguely aware of other diagnoses.

And I agree, but the reports I've been reading (like that reddit post) seem to be Universal getting caught up in what boxes the OP checked on the form.

My concern about "how it impacts the individual" is that many of the issues they face are SIMILAR to other more common and heavily stigmaed diagnoses that people love to be like "oh that sounds like my cousin have you tried X?"

But just because it seems similar, it is really not. So we have to start with DAS by being clear that this is a rare genetic mutation disorder, not something you think you may know about because it sounds like other issues.

And so how can I have certainty that a faceless corporation who knows nothing about this rare condition won't also assume it's "like X" and it doesn't meet their criteria (either because of stigma or being uninformed) and I have no human to follow up with (as far as I understand it)?

Instead of being upset about they could do or might do, or what they could approve or not approve, or what they could say or not say, if you go to Universal and need the AAP, then why not apply and see what happens?

I can understand people being concerned about the short notice of the changes, but I don't understand all of angst over the "what ifs". If someone needs the AAP, they should apply, and if denied, then look at what next steps are for appealing/reviewing that decision.

 

[Lilsia]

Determine how someone has a disability? How about using the ADA definition?

ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. This includes people who have a record of such an impairment, even if they do not currently have a disability. It also includes individuals who do not have a disability but are regarded as having a disability.

No, how do they determine who's diagnosis is worthy enough to be sent to US to be given accommodations? Have you not heard that some people are being denied by them? And we all know that not everyone with the same diagnosis have the same issues.
You think that they just go under what the ADA considers to be a disability and that is all that it takes to get accommodations? Alcoholism is considered a disability under the ADA, so those people should be able to give their doctor's note to not have to wait in line?
Bladder and digestive issues ARE covered under the ADA also, but we have already seen someone say that they have been denied and were told to just leave the line.

 

[Lilsia]

So I Googled this company. This "approving" of your disability looks like a nice side hustle for them. I wonder how much they are getting paid to say that "yes, you have medical issues".
This is what the company is.. The International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards (IBCCES) created an online training and certification program to help travel professionals assist families and individuals with special needs prepare for their perfect vacation

They are a glorified travel agent that helps those primarily with Autism to travel. This calls into question how well they are securing people's information. Who is overseeing them to make sure that they are securing people's medical information?
People are too quick to trust these random website companies.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No, how do they determine who's diagnosis is worthy enough to be sent to US to be given accommodations? Have you not heard that some people are being denied by them? And we all know that not everyone with the same diagnosis have the same issues.
You think that they just go under what the ADA considers to be a disability and that is all that it takes to get accommodations? Alcoholism is considered a disability under the ADA, so those people should be able to give their doctor's note to not have to wait in line?
Bladder and digestive issues ARE covered under the ADA also, but we have already seen someone say that they have been denied and were told to just leave the line.

First, the IBCCES isn't determining the accommodations, they're just confirming that the person has a disability. Of course not everyone with the same diagnosis needs the same accommodations, and that's where Universal will be the final arbiter. No one ever said that just because someone has a disability they need accommodations. So in your example, IBCCES could certainly validate that an alcoholic is disabled, but that doesn't mean they need or will receive accommodations.

The people with bladder and digestive issues weren't denied by IBCCES, who correctly noted that they have a disability, they were denied the AAP by Universal. Two totally different things. Like it or not, and I know most people won't (and I can certainly understand why), Universal's accommodation for those with bladder and digestive issues may be that they are permitted to leave and then return to the line. As inconvenient as it may be, it is an accommodation, and no one is entitled to their preferred accommodation.

 

[OurBigTrip]

So I Googled this company. This "approving" of your disability looks like a nice side hustle for them. I wonder how much they are getting paid to say that "yes, you have medical issues".
This is what the company is.. The International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards (IBCCES) created an online training and certification program to help travel professionals assist families and individuals with special needs prepare for their perfect vacation

They are a glorified travel agent that helps those primarily with Autism to travel. This calls into question how well they are securing people's information. Who is overseeing them to make sure that they are securing people's medical information?
People are too quick to trust these random website companies.

Then don't submit the documentation and forego accommodations.

 

[lanejudy]

No, how do they determine who's diagnosis is worthy enough to be sent to US to be given accommodations? Have you not heard that some people are being denied by them? And we all know that not everyone with the same diagnosis have the same issues.
You think that they just go under what the ADA considers to be a disability and that is all that it takes to get accommodations? Alcoholism is considered a disability under the ADA, so those people should be able to give their doctor's note to not have to wait in line?
Bladder and digestive issues ARE covered under the ADA also, but we have already seen someone say that they have been denied and were told to just leave the line.

Again, the IBCCES is only "certifying" that documentation of a disability exists.

Universal is granting, or not granting, the accommodations requested -- completely separate from any documentation submitted.

And no, the ADA does not consider any specific diagnosis as a disability. Again, it's how a given individual is impacted by said diagnosis. And the ADA will recognize an individual as disabled without a diagnosis as long as they meet the definition as posted previously.

 

[gottalovepluto]

... I don't understand all of angst over the "what ifs". If someone needs the AAP, they should apply, and if denied, then look at what next steps are for appealing/reviewing that decision.

Please understand that for those of us that have angst regarding this it is not related to us being unable to understand the steps of the system. We are reading this thread, and typing or dictating responses, we can comprehend. Our angst associated with this issue comes from many different places and it won't just go away because someone spelled out the steps 1, 2, 3. I'm glad you are not experiencing angst, alas I am. I don't want anyone else experiencing angst about this to think they are alone or that they shouldn't feel angst because it's just so simple.

 

[Lilsia]

First, the IBCCES isn't determining the accommodations, they're just confirming that the person has a disability. Of course not everyone with the same diagnosis needs the same accommodations, and that's where Universal will be the final arbiter. No one ever said that just because someone has a disability they need accommodations. So in your example, IBCCES could certainly validate that an alcoholic is disabled, but that doesn't mean they need or will receive accommodations.

The people with bladder and digestive issues weren't denied by IBCCES, who correctly noted that they have a disability, they were denied the AAP by Universal. Two totally different things. Like it or not, and I know most people won't (and I can certainly understand why), Universal's accommodation for those with bladder and digestive issues may be that they are permitted to leave and then return to the line. As inconvenient as it may be, it is an accommodation, and no one is entitled to their preferred accommodation.

And how does someone that travels solo leave the line to use the restroom numerous times and go back to where they were? How is that "accommodating"?
And you clearly are missing my point. How is this company qualified to even verify what is covered under the ADA? Under who's authority? They seem to primarily be an autism help place. How does that qualify them to verify anything medical?

 

[OurBigTrip]

And how does someone that travels solo leave the line to use the restroom numerous times and go back to where they were? How is that "accommodating"?
And you clearly are missing my point. How is this company qualified to even verify what is covered under the ADA? Under who's authority? They seem to primarily be an autism help place. How does that qualify them to verify anything medical?

Again, it doesn't have to be the accommodation of choice.

And I'm not missing your point at all, I just don't happen to agree with your conclusions. Not agreeing doesn't equal not understanding.

 

[Lilsia]

Again, it doesn't have to be the accommodation of choice.

And I'm not missing your point at all, I just don't happen to agree with your conclusions. Not agreeing doesn't equal not understanding.

So you have no problem with giving your medical information with this random company? Where you don't know how they are handling that information or if they are even qualified to verify anything? You are that trusting and carefree about your personal information?

 

[OurBigTrip]

So you have no problem with giving your medical information with this random company? Where you don't know how they are handling that information or if they are even qualified to verify anything? You are that trusting and carefree about your personal information?

If was planning to go to Universal and needed the AAP, then yes, I would submit the information needed in order to be considered.

No one will force anyone to submit their information, but if it's not submitted, then the AAP will not be offered. It's really that simple.

 

[Lilsia]

If was planning to go to Universal and needed the AAP, then yes, I would submit the information needed in order to be considered.

No one will force anyone to submit their information, but if it's not submitted, then the AAP will not be offered. It's really that simple.

You and a lot of other people. Sad that people are not questioning these companies more. Only when there is some kind of data breach do people get angry about it.

 

[SteveMouse]

The documentation should include a diagnosis and how it impacts the individual.

Many individuals with the sale condition I have have gone years without a diagnosis because physicians don’t know that the symptoms a patient is having are due to this particular disease.

So I Googled this company. This "approving" of your disability looks like a nice side hustle for them. I wonder how much they are getting paid to say that "yes, you have medical issues".
This is what the company is.. The International Board of Credentialing and Continuing Education Standards (IBCCES) created an online training and certification program to help travel professionals assist families and individuals with special needs prepare for their perfect vacation

They are a glorified travel agent that helps those primarily with Autism to travel. This calls into question how well they are securing people's information. Who is overseeing them to make sure that they are securing people's medical information?
People are too quick to trust these random website companies.

They state explicitly that they will use your information for marketing purposes. The only ways out are to not give it in the first place or to ask via email, after you provide the info, for it to not be used/shared. There is no timeline provided, and no clawback provision, which means as soon as you hit “submit” the data can be forwarded anywhere. How quickly is someone going to look at and act upon q request to stop using/forwarding data?

 

[OurBigTrip]

You and a lot of other people. Sad that people are not questioning these companies more. Only when there is some kind of data breach do people get angry about it.

Security
IBCCES takes precautions to protect your Personal Information. When you submit Personal Information, your information is protected both online and offline. IBCCES uses encryption to protect your Personal Information transmitted online. Additionally, only employees who need the information to perform a specific job are granted access to your Personal Information. The computers/servers in which IBCCES stores your Personal Information are kept in a secure environment.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Many individuals with the sale condition I have have gone years without a diagnosis because physicians don’t know that the symptoms a patient is having are due to this particular disease.

They state explicitly that they will use your information for marketing purposes, and share it with others. The only ways out are to not give it in the first place or to ask via email, after you provide the info, for it to not be used/shared. There is no timeline provided, and no clawback provision, which means as soon as you hit “submit” the data can be forwarded anywhere. How quickly is someone going to look at and act upon q request to stop using/forwarding data?

They say they will share it with "Facilities", which I took to mean the parks you've checked off as the ones you plan to visit. So yeah, if you register for Universal, you may get Universal marketing emails until you opt out.

I highly doubt they're sharing it with mass marketers, but if that's a concern, I would ask them before submitting the info.