Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[yaddo121]

I don’t mind so much that the little Mickey lights up blue but I do tend to stand right in front of it to block it just because I’ve heard about people with DAS hearing comments like, “Well they don’t look disabled” or people commenting that they “know” about the abuse/fraud because they watch how many blue scans there are as they wait for their LL. Now in reality do I really think people are watching how many blue scans go through? No and I certainly hope people have better things to do with their time lol. But that’s not the way my mind works. Unfortunately my brain already tells me I am not “deserving” of the DAS and is just waiting for the first person to comment. So when I scan blue there is always that little bit of anxiety but I can see why they do it. I’ll continue to try to work on accepting myself and not letting the fear of others judgement get to me

It must be terribly difficult for cast members to monitor that scan point. I get anxiety just watching them try to deal with early LL, people who don’t have LL/Genie but want to get it, large groups, all sorts of questions, people scanning with DAS so they have to look at the picture and let you in and the list goes on. It’s amazing to see the cast members deal with all that in one little area.

 

[SteveMouse]

Since Universal is the one deciding what, if any, accommodations will be offered, not likely they could throw IBCCES under the bus. All that IBCCES is doing is trying to weed out people who don't actually have a disability.

And they are not well equipped to evaluate my ultra-rare condition which is a genetic mutation, has a visible phenotype (malformed digit), but the digit not usually a source of issues. There are other things that don’t behave as expected. There are literally less than 10 physicians worldwide that have more knowledge than a single medical article. The impqcts differ significantly between patients.

 

[gottalovepluto]

We don't use a wheelchair at Universal but there are plenty of others who have. Getting this card will do nothing to change the process at Universal, they would still do it the same way in park. I imagine we would still have to go pick up our PASS as usual. You need the hard pass to make the system work and this company is not providing that. We just dropped our UO APs so I won't be testing it for a few years.

You know reading here the few that got approved with what seemed like irrelevant documentation in terms of it directly explaining what issues/needs a guest has with theme park queues??? And I've been cruising several other sites where there were lots who got approved with basically nothing that would be helpful. Then we are hearing that folks will be called by Universal to discuss their needs and determine what they would even do for them?? It almost sounds like nothing more than an extra step to get to the Pre-Qualifying TMs.

This card is not developed specifically for theme parks, it is used by other businesses to get a person's needs predetermined. And there are still steps after that. I think that is where some of the confusion is happening with wheelchairs and service dogs etc. Some businesses will need to make adjustments for those things but the theme parks are already way ahead of that.

The more I read I don't even know if Disney is even looking at this. It's been around for years. When Disney announced their new pre-qualify I thought they were going to hire this company - but they built their own system. Maybe they determined why pay a company to just add a step since it's not specific to their business, and then Disney CMs would still have to go through the approval. Maybe if approval is so easy it would be a detriment to Disney because guests that were approved would expect Disney to also approve. And Disney doesn't need the wheelchair, dog, steps, visual etc accommodations, that is in place.

But if Disney has 25% of guests attached to a DAS, they probably need to do something. And perhaps they will watch and see how it works for UO and adjustments they can just make at their end on their own.

The parks absolutely watch each other so if it helps UOR’s bottom line I’m sure Disney will look at it again. Main issue- Disney is in cost cutting mode. Since UOR is still basically doing their own interview of candidates this isn’t much of a cost saver for staffing hours so, do they end up selling enough additional access passes to cover the cost of this contractor? (Idea being they’re doing this to weed out bad apples.) If not then all they accomplish with this contract is losing money and Disney isn’t going to be into that for now.

 

[bambialways4ever]

And they are not well equipped to evaluate my ultra-rare condition which is a genetic mutation, has a visible phenotype (malformed digit), but the digit not usually a source of issues. There are other things that don’t behave as expected. There are literally less than 10 physicians worldwide that have more knowledge than a single medical article. The impqcts differ significantly between patients.

Hey there rare disease fam! Yup, us too.

Most doctors have never even heard of it, and if they have, it was in the pages of a med school textbook!

There are multiple mutations for this disorder, and the type in our family has only 5% of people with this already incredibly rare disease diagnosed with it. And the amount of people worldwide with any form of this disease is like, less than 200k, and approx 80% of people with it don't even know as it's extremely commonly misdiagnosed and not tested for.

I can assure you none of these "systems" know our life. Not to mention our "rare disease" isn't the only diagnosis we have....

 

[OurBigTrip]

And they are not well equipped to evaluate my ultra-rare condition which is a genetic mutation, has a visible phenotype (malformed digit), but the digit not usually a source of issues. There are other things that don’t behave as expected. There are literally less than 10 physicians worldwide that have more knowledge than a single medical article. The impqcts differ significantly between patientsI.

Hey there rare disease fam! Yup, us too.

Most doctors have never even heard of it, and if they have, it was in the pages of a med school textbook!

There are multiple mutations for this disorder, and the type in our family has only 5% of people with this already incredibly rare disease diagnosed with it. And the amount of people worldwide with any form of this disease is like, less than 200k, and approx 80% of people with it don't even know as it's extremely commonly misdiagnosed and not tested for.

I can assure you none of these "systems" know our life. Not to mention our "rare disease" isn't the only diagnosis we have....

No matter how rare your disease is, I’m assuming you have a doctor that can write a letter saying you need accommodations, no?

 

[TwoMisfits]

The parks absolutely watch each other so if it helps UOR’s bottom line I’m sure Disney will look at it again. Main issue- Disney is in cost cutting mode. Since UOR is still basically doing their own interview of candidates this isn’t much of a cost saver for staffing hours so, do they end up selling enough additional access passes to cover the cost of this contractor? (Idea being they’re doing this to weed out bad apples.) If not then all they accomplish with this contract is losing money and Disney isn’t going to be into that for now.

I'd actually imagine they are saving at least 25-30% man hours b/c they don't need to interview anyone rejected at the 1st step (or anyone who stops b/c of the 1st step), and I'd imagine there is at least that many applications rejected/now not submitted, so Universal never gets to the point of needing to evaluate them, as they had to before.

 

[HopperFan]

The parks absolutely watch each other so if it helps UOR’s bottom line I’m sure Disney will look at it again. Main issue- Disney is in cost cutting mode. Since UOR is still basically doing their own interview of candidates this isn’t much of a cost saver for staffing hours so, do they end up selling enough additional access passes to cover the cost of this contractor? (Idea being they’re doing this to weed out bad apples.) If not then all they accomplish with this contract is losing money and Disney isn’t going to be into that for now.

But UO is only doing interviews for those folks who have been approved. How many people are not even attempting to get approval (who once had the UO pass) because they do not have an official diagnosis or supporting documents? Perhaps this system is reducing the number of people UO has to interview substantially. Perhaps it is more efficient with UO employees only working so many hours per day contacting guests vs the park Guest Relations open from before park opening to closing talking to anyone.

I don't know - I'm just saying it may be the cost savings comes from a substantial number of applications never even happening now.

 

[lanejudy]

Perhaps this system is reducing the number of people UO has to interview substantially.

I think it's a bit of a toss-up right now because they are jammed up with too many applications to review. In hindsight, UO probably should have given advanced notice of the new process and maybe staggered the start -- something like WDW's 30-day requirement.

However I do wonder how much the new process is actually weeding out (or straight up excluding because people don't apply). By accepting IEPs, they've actually opened a can of worms -- all it takes is social media to start sharing that any kid with an IEP can get approved by IBCCES by using the IEP as documentation and then on the interview claiming "xxx." (I won't fill in the blank but I think you understand.) IEP's include so very many different "diagnoses" that are considered a disability (exactly why the child qualifies for SPED) but have no impact on a theme park vacation. More guests for UO to weed out, or easier for those guests to claim a "fake" need because they provided documentation?

I guess only time will tell if UO thinks it's successful. Right now with the backlog of guests to contact, I'm sure it hasn't reduced any workload.

 

[JLTraveling]

One huge change that UO has made as part of this is the development of an internal accommodations team. So instead of regular Guest Services employees doing the interviews, it's this separate team. When you go into GS to get your accommodation, ALL you'll have to do is tell them the case number that the accommodations team assigned you. So it's effectively taken that entire workload off the front line employees, while also meaning that (in theory) no one will have to waste their precious park time explaining their needs yet again, or explain them in front of other guests. I say in theory, because the accommodations team is super backed up right now and so they're in a sort of transitional state where if you haven't had your chat with the accommodations team yet, front line GS can still help you out in person the old way, but they're phasing that out.

So once they clear the backlog, this should end up being good for both the guest, who can now just have a conversation once a year and then grab the accommodation and go on park days, but also for Guest Services, who no longer have to spend their time on those conversations and making determinations. It's just an insane changeover in the middle of the busy summer season, with everyone also trying to get things squared away before HHN.

 

[bambialways4ever]

No matter how rare your disease is, I’m assuming you have a doctor that can write a letter saying you need accommodations, no?

It seems based on reports here they want a specific diagnosis on that document.

If no one that works there has ever heard of this condition, how can I trust this will be approved?

Also because we have multiple diagnoses, it causes me to ask which one/which doctor is the "right" one to get accommodations from, since other reports from Universal have been if you don't check the right boxes on the ibces form but bring it up on your call you can be denied.

 

[HopperFan]

I think it's a bit of a toss-up right now because they are jammed up with too many applications to review. In hindsight, UO probably should have given advanced notice of the new process and maybe staggered the start -- something like WDW's 30-day requirement.

However I do wonder how much the new process is actually weeding out (or straight up excluding because people don't apply). By accepting IEPs, they've actually opened a can of worms -- all it takes is social media to start sharing that any kid with an IEP can get approved by IBCCES by using the IEP as documentation and then on the interview claiming "xxx." (I won't fill in the blank but I think you understand.) IEP's include so very many different "diagnoses" that are considered a disability (exactly why the child qualifies for SPED) but have no impact on a theme park vacation. More guests for UO to weed out, or easier for those guests to claim a "fake" need because they provided documentation?

I guess only time will tell if UO thinks it's successful. Right now with the backlog of guests to contact, I'm sure it hasn't reduced any workload.

Completely agree on the huge problems IEP brings. My DS had an IEP for 22 years (he started in a special school at birth), and my other DS is a HS teacher highly involved in IEPs, and 504s (which the number who hold these are huge because requirements are so low). I've never seen a page on my son's that could have been clear about his needs in a theme park queue. And we never applied for GAC until he was 18 and his needs drastically changed. We could have always walked up with his disability asking for GAC but he didn't need one. Having a disability doesn't translate into a queue issue ...

I think it truly is a can of worms and IEPs etc should not be accepted. I said it earlier in thread that it appears IBCCES is accepting everything even a grocery list. Question? How is IBCCES paid? per application, per approval? Did Universal not go in to this with clear parameters?

If this process is streamlined and documents accepted narrowed - I do think the long run could save UO employee costs, lost income (Express) etc. But only IF they narrow what IBCCES accepts. And maybe UO should be honest up front about what issues they are prepared to work with to save folks the time, energy, planning and stress of the process.

I have no doubt we will get approved, but UO is also a park(s) that DS can NOT do without. There is nothing really there except rides. So right now we will not return to UO (cancelled AP) until they get the system operating properly. It's already an inefficient plan with lots of walking. So I will stick with Disney for now.

 

[DisneyOma]

Since Universal is the one deciding what, if any, accommodations will be offered, not likely they could throw IBCCES under the bus. All that IBCCES is doing is trying to weed out people who don't actually have a disability.

IBCCES is weeding out people who don't fit their mold of what a disability looks and acts like, or they are not weeding out anything at all. If you think a doctor's note is a standard for disability access, you haven't seen the god-complex doctors I've seen. How many pediatricians have offered to just write out a note saying a kid needs front of the line access? Google that, and you'll see years of doctor-fueled abuse of the GAC system.

Since Universal is offering accommodations, and is basing it off of what IBCCES tells them, if they get sued, they can say "well, IBCCES stated the plaintiffs don't have a disability that requires this or that" right?

 

[lanejudy]

And maybe UO should be honest up front about what issues they are prepared to work with to save folks the time, energy, planning and stress of the process.

Agree with everything you said. To the above...UO's website seems to imply that only folks looking for the AAP need to use the new IBCCES process. However once you get to the IBCCES website it mentions needing the card for wheelchairs, service dogs, blind/vision, hearing disabilities, etc. So that is confusing as to how UO is accommodating various disabilities.

 

[lanejudy]

Since Universal is offering accommodations, and is basing it off of what IBCCES tells them

My understanding, and based on reports so far, IBCCES isn't sharing any information with UO. IBCCES approves that the individual has submitted documentation proving a disability exists. It is then fully on UO to determine whether that individual's needs qualify for accommodations at the UO parks based on a discussion between the individual and UO.

The only way UO could point a finger back at IBCCES is if that organization doesn't approve documentation submitted - therefore the individual doesn't qualify to even speak with UO about accommodations. Presumably if that happens, the individual has an opportunity to resubmit "better" documentation meeting the IBCCES criteria.

 

[lanejudy]

It seems based on reports here they want a specific diagnosis on that document.

If no one that works there has ever heard of this condition, how can I trust this will be approved?

The documentation should include a diagnosis and how it impacts the individual.

Also because we have multiple diagnoses, it causes me to ask which one/which doctor is the "right" one to get accommodations from, since other reports from Universal have been if you don't check the right boxes on the ibces form but bring it up on your call you can be denied.

Does the individual have a "primary care" physician who receives reports from all specialists? That is the ideal in any situation, and as such the PCP would write the letter. It may take a conversation with you to discuss which diagnosis/need applies to the theme park situation.

And when applying be sure to check any/all boxes that might need accommodation. Don't try to rely on just 1. (Though I believe "bathroom" needs are not getting accommodation at UO at this point.)

 

[notatallmagic]

One huge change that UO has made as part of this is the development of an internal accommodations team. So instead of regular Guest Services employees doing the interviews, it's this separate team. When you go into GS to get your accommodation, ALL you'll have to do is tell them the case number that the accommodations team assigned you. So it's effectively taken that entire workload off the front line employees, while also meaning that (in theory) no one will have to waste their precious park time explaining their needs yet again, or explain them in front of other guests. I say in theory, because the accommodations team is super backed up right now and so they're in a sort of transitional state where if you haven't had your chat with the accommodations team yet, front line GS can still help you out in person the old way, but they're phasing that out.

So once they clear the backlog, this should end up being good for both the guest, who can now just have a conversation once a year and then grab the accommodation and go on park days, but also for Guest Services, who no longer have to spend their time on those conversations and making determinations. It's just an insane changeover in the middle of the busy summer season, with everyone also trying to get things squared away before HHN.

We always had called 30 days before, gotten "reapprooved" and just told the park Gues Services person our case number. It was simple and fast.

 

[notatallmagic]

So we still haven't heard back; and cannot schedule the spontaneous/popup trips that we had been enjoying as Annual Passholders. If we don't hear soon, or are denied, has anyone been able to cancel/balance refund Annual Passes? This is causing lots of unnecessary stress.

 

[Lilsia]

But UO is only doing interviews for those folks who have been approved. How many people are not even attempting to get approval (who once had the UO pass) because they do not have an official diagnosis or supporting documents? Perhaps this system is reducing the number of people UO has to interview substantially. Perhaps it is more efficient with UO employees only working so many hours per day contacting guests vs the park Guest Relations open from before park opening to closing talking to anyone.

I don't know - I'm just saying it may be the cost savings comes from a substantial number of applications never even happening now.

And how horrible is that? It is not as easy for some to be able to get a diagnosis and the documents that they need. So I guess they can't go to US then.

 

[Lilsia]

Honestly, I don't know how so many people are comfortable using this third party company. Who are these people that we are handing over our medical information to? How are they securing it? Who are these people to decide what kind of disabilities they think should get accommodations and which shouldn't? What are their qualifications? The whole thing sounds like a bit scam that these theme parks have fallen for.

 

[HopperFan]

Agree with everything you said. To the above...UO's website seems to imply that only folks looking for the AAP need to use the new IBCCES process. However once you get to the IBCCES website it mentions needing the card for wheelchairs, service dogs, blind/vision, hearing disabilities, etc. So that is confusing as to how UO is accommodating various disabilities.

I agree it is likely confusing but .... I don't think those parts have anything to do with UO and that is where UO is failing to not make it very clear that folks who use "tools" that are already accommodated in their parks do not need this pass. If I don't usually get a pass at Universal because I can use my tools ... I wouldn't even be applying for all of this.

The IBCCES process is not just for UO, it is for any business that has contracted with them for this service. Very generic. So those issues such as dogs and wheelchairs etc likely apply to say conventions, special events or a workplace that needs to make extra space for a dog, bring in a sign language translator or devices etc.

I think this company needs to have different links for different kinds of businesses to avoid exactly what is happening now.