Universal now requiring documentation be sent to a third party for accessibility

[bambialways4ever]

All of my doctors charge to fill out the school sports forms, vaccination forms, or write notes. It's $25 a form.

Yeah I was thinking it was around $25 or $50. Thought this was standard for everyone as it's posted at every doctor we go to regardless of speciality.

 

[Evita_W]

Can anyone explain to me in plain English how this doesn't violate ADA to the other of the law?

I think we can likely all agree it violates the spirit of the law, but what loophole allows this to the letter of the law?

 

[Evita_W]

Yeah I was thinking it was around $25 or $50. Thought this was standard for everyone as it's posted at every doctor we go to regardless of speciality.

Doctors should not be charging to provide documentation.

 

[lanejudy]

The site needs to be much clearer in the documents they are willing to accept

That is a challenge for international travel. What your country calls a document and what my country calls a similar document may be 2 different terms, and a visitor from a 3rd country calls it something else. As well, your country may provide a document that I don't have in my country, and vice-versa.

US folks often struggle with understanding what documentation is needed at non-US locations to "prove" disability because we have nothing from the government like so many of you have. Even within the US most documents are not national so they vary by state or even county, and once you get down to individual doctor's offices... no consistency.

 

[lanejudy]

Yeah I was thinking it was around $25 or $50. Thought this was standard for everyone as it's posted at every doctor we go to regardless of speciality.

A local PED charges I think $40 to complete a form like for a sports or camp physical... BUT... only if the patient has been seen for a well-visit within the past 6 (or maybe 3?) months. If the most recent well-visit was longer ago they require an appointment. And since there is no acceptable office-visit code for "completing forms" the visit isn't covered by insurance.

I've never had to have any forms/documents from other specialties, even my own PCP, so I'm not sure of their fees or policies.

Doctors should not be charging to provide documentation.

The charge is to cover the time to pull up a record and complete the form, which is a task that otherwise would not be done at that point in time. Pediatricians in particular can spend literally HOURS doing forms for kids sports and camps.

 

[lanejudy]

Can anyone explain to me in plain English how this doesn't violate ADA to the other of the law?

I think we can likely all agree it violates the spirit of the law, but what loophole allows this to the letter of the law?

I'm not sure that anybody yet has reported what accommodation(s) options will be granted with this new procedure. At other parks that use this system, the accommodation is typically equivalent to a paid-for service available to other guests. If the accommodation is something that has value, ADA allows that documentation can be required.

 

[Lilsia]

As far as I understand it, Disney and the cast members don't have access to this information. Just this third party company.

Right, but my point is that Disney's stance is that it is not diagnosis based but need based. How will this third party company decide if a person with a certain diagnosis truly needs DAS? They can't because they don't ask the same questions that Disney does, they just document your diagnosis. You can have 2 people with ADHD and one might need it but the other not. But with this system, everyone with a diagnosis of ADHD will qualify for DAS. Same with something like diabetes. Some with it get DAS and others don't. Can you imagine if now everyone with diabetes decided to fill out the form because it will be easy to have their doctor do so and they all get DAS? Not saying that will happen, but this definitely opens things up more.

 

[lanejudy]

Right, but my point is that Disney's stance is that it is not diagnosis based but need based. How will this third party company decide if a person with a certain diagnosis truly needs DAS?

I haven't visited a park that uses this pre-registration, however I did read (somewhere) that the documentation must indicate not just diagnosis but the need. So I don't think it is only diagnosis-based. If the documentation initially uploaded does not include the "need" information, more can be requested or the card accommodations can be denied. Plus there is still supposedly an "interview" at the park before accommodations are granted.

Maybe someone who has been through this process with Six Flags or another park can provide more insight. But that is my understanding.

 

[Evita_W]

I'm not sure that anybody yet has reported what accommodation(s) options will be granted with this new procedure. At other parks that use this system, the accommodation is typically equivalent to a paid-for service available to other guests. If the accommodation is something that has value, ADA allows that documentation can be required.

But the parks that have been using this provide no equal accomodations to say those in wheelchairs without this documentation. This seems to me to violate the ADA.

 

[voxparse]

Can anyone explain to me in plain English how this doesn't violate ADA to the other of the law?

I think we can likely all agree it violates the spirit of the law, but what loophole allows this to the letter of the law?

The ADA isn't as helpful as it would seem. The primary issue is that you (or anyone wanting to pursue it) have to prove the program violates the law. There is no burden on the organization to prove it doesn't violate the law until challenged. If Disney/Universal wanted to remove their disability access programs completely, I'm fairly certain they could win any case challenging it. DAS and the programs like it are above and beyond the vast majority of accessibility requirements of the ADA and I have yet to see anyone make a successful argument in court documents or otherwise that they have an obligation to maintain these programs or that they take any particular form.

Here is a good read if you're interested in what the ADA does/covers related to rides. https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-10-amusement-rides/
Here is a small case study of a real-life situation regarding Universal Studios https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2014/01/21/amusement-park-ride-accessibility-ada-title-iii/

 

[gatormom2tots]

Really torn on this issue...it tries to ensure others are not taking advantage but needed accommodations are not so clear cut as an IEP.

My son recently graduated HS (with an IEP) but is trying to hold a job and considering college. Kid is brilliant with a 1400+SAT score but is on the spectrum and struggles with lines, sensory issues (heat being a big one) and anxiety in addition to executive functioning skills. He has utilized the DAS at Disney/Universal.

My middle daughter (12) also has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist with sensory issues (loud noises, anxiety, heat issues) and GAD but has not needed an IEP or a 504 for educational purposes and is not currently under medication management by a psychiatrist. She has utilized the DAS at Disney/Universal. Her anxiety is heightened by sensory issues that are found inside the parks, but not really in the educational setting.

My oldest daughter (17) has a current 504 due to diagnosed anxiety issues, but is fine with sensory issues and crowds. She has never utilized DAS and her disabilities do not impeded her park experience.

And my youngest daughter also has diagnosed GAD but is not medicated or receiving services via 504 or IEP. She has not utilized DAS and does not need accommodations to enjoy the parks.

An IEP or even a 504 is strictly for educational purposes and is not equivalent for accommodations that might be needed within the parks. All 4 of my kids have diagnoses that would seem to "qualify" for services, but only 2 actually need them- and 1 has no 504 or IEP.

We used the guest assistance at Universal and Disney earlier this week without needing this verification but will have to reconsider future plans to ensure our kids have the accommodation they need. Regardless, we still stay at Premiere resorts (Unviersal) or purchase Genie+ (Disney) to accomodate our kids.

 

[Evita_W]

The ADA isn't as helpful as it would seem. The primary issue is that you (or anyone wanting to pursue it) have to prove the program violates the law. There is no burden on the organization to prove it doesn't violate the law until challenged. If Disney/Universal wanted to remove their disability access programs completely, I'm fairly certain they could win any case challenging it. DAS and the programs like it are above and beyond the vast majority of accessibility requirements of the ADA and I have yet to see anyone make a successful argument in court documents or otherwise that they have an obligation to maintain these programs or that they take any particular form.

Here is a good read if you're interested in what the ADA does/covers related to rides. https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-10-amusement-rides/
Here is a small case study of a real-life situation regarding Universal Studios https://www.understandingtheada.com/blog/2014/01/21/amusement-park-ride-accessibility-ada-title-iii/

The problem is these parks are requiring it even for just being given an alternative to using the stairs, when being 8n a mobility device is sufficient proof of needing to skip the stairs.

 

[voxparse]

The problem is these parks are requiring it even for just being given an alternative to using the stairs, when being 8n a mobility device is sufficient proof of needing to skip the stairs.

The disability access programs are not used to control people utilizing alternatives to stairs or any other accessible spaces. These programs are primarily focused on shorter waits in lines. Universal and Disney have made their main lines accessible in the vast majority of cases and I've never heard of anyone needing DAS to access alternatives when they are needed. For example, the primary line for Its a Small World is not wheelchair accessible. Anyone requiring an alternative approach to the ride is sent a different way but it does not require DAS.

 

[eticketplease]

No one has to walk across a park and back - that is the plus of the DAS being in your MDE. You can plan your time in a way that while you are waiting for 7 Dwarfs DAS time you ride Small World, Carousel, Mickey Philharmonic (which is usually walk on for a seat and A/C), eating lunch, going the bathroom.

You may be able to plan to ride something but that doesn’t work for our family. It also doesn’t matter if the ride is a walk-in or not as I’m not about to take DS out of his comfort zone as that just ends badly for anyone around us. As far as walking across the park and back I was referring to getting on another attraction like you had mentioned only to go back to the one DS wants. It is nice that we don’t have to go to the attractions or the blue umbrella to request the next time anymore. We try and minimize walking so we are generally looking for something not too far away.

 

[Evita_W]

The disability access programs are not used to control people utilizing alternatives to stairs or any other accessible spaces. These programs are primarily focused on shorter waits in lines. Universal and Disney have made their main lines accessible in the vast majority of cases and I've never heard of anyone needing DAS to access alternatives when they are needed. For example, the primary line for Its a Small World is not wheelchair accessible. Anyone requiring an alternative approach to the ride is sent a different way but it does not require DAS.

They do require it, even just for stairs at Six Flags parks which use this system, not at Disney parks.

 

[DLgal]

You're really fortunate your son's psychiatrist doesn't charge a fee for that sort of thing.

Our psychiatrist has a $200 fee for any paperwork.

Well, we do have to pay her $250 out of pocket every month. She doesn't take insurance.

I offered to pay for the letter we needed. She waved away that suggestion and said she would be happy to do it as part of his regular appointment paperwork.

 

[MinnieMSue]

Ok so while I probably won’t even need it at universal as we purchase express and find that works much better than their pass I tried this out anyway just to see what happens. It only took page 2 of my fmla paperwork which only has part of my stuff relevant to theme parks. Their options to choose in the application were really not what I need but I picked whatever was closest. I immediately got the temporary card and now it appears I have a permanent one since it is dated for a year. It was approved for what I checked on their application. They didn’t email me or confirm anything. I’m going to assume they didn’t call my doctor because that’s logical. I have heard that universal contacts you about your needs before your trip but do not know if that is true. We are going mid October so no rush on their part. Also I don’t plan to use it. There was a rumor universal makes you wear a wristband but their social media said that is not true. Honestly I was thinking I was going to have to contact my specialist to get a specific letter but I did not. Somehow them only getting page 2 of the 2 page fmla paperwork was enough. That page did have my work accommodations on it so maybe that was lucky idk. I honestly do not think they are scrutinizing this as much as I thought they would be. Just my 2cents.

 

[lanejudy]

The blurb I read from Universal indicated that the registration was needed to use a "Service animal"... Can they do this? If so, might be a bit of a challenge for legitimate service animal users BUT would definitely stop the "mommy's little baby" stroller dogs!

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anything about requiring this pre-registration just to bring a service dog into the parks. Someone else also mentioned it's required for use of a wheelchair, but I don't see that either. Any help pointing me towards those details?

 

[lanejudy]

But the parks that have been using this provide no equal accomodations to say those in wheelchairs without this documentation. This seems to me to violate the ADA.

But does ADA require equal accommodation if greater is offered? I honestly don’t know. Just thinking of HA parking - one must apply for the hangtag to use the closest spots or spots with the extra load/unload space. There is no other “equal” without that tag other than regular parking spots available to all.

 

[HopperFan]

You may be able to plan to ride something but that doesn’t work for our family. It also doesn’t matter if the ride is a walk-in or not as I’m not about to take DS out of his comfort zone. We go to the attractions or the blue umbrella to request the next time anymore. We try and minimize walking so we are generally looking for something not too far away.

And I totally appreciate that. We had years that Disney was quite painful, 20 minutes just to get through front gate. Unfortunate incidents that triggered a medical episode that we spent rest of week in room and left early. A situation caused by CMs. I know there are individuals that are very restrictive guests. I just believe that is a small minority based on what we read here, other places, people I know etc. The overall program they offer now including 2 free in advance times, is much more than typical guests get unless they pay for it.

Most folks with extreme situations don't even go to Disney for fear of investing so much money and having a bad time. The cost of going to Disney is so high now that it's not worth it for just a few rides. If Testa has true info AND Disney does have all that info, and 2% of the guests are entering LL with DAS - that means say in MK it could be 15,000-20,000 using DAS any given day filling the LL. That is not sustainable on top of guests paying for LL. It's been discussed on other threads that many of us who are regulars and have been for years are finding the LL is more crowded now, and now that is is pay they hold up SB longer, and if 25% of them are not paying then SB is really at a disadvantage.

Disney has created another monster like the GAC, one way or another I think they are going to fix it. They need to.

Ok so while I probably won’t even need it at universal as we purchase express and find that works much better than their pass I tried this out anyway just to see what happens. It only took page 2 of my fmla paperwork which only has part of my stuff relevant to theme parks. Their options to choose in the application were really not what I need but I picked whatever was closest. I immediately got the temporary card and now it appears I have a permanent one since it is dated for a year. It was approved for what I checked on their application. They didn’t email me or confirm anything. I’m going to assume they didn’t call my doctor because that’s logical. I have heard that universal contacts you about your needs before your trip but do not know if that is true. We are going mid October so no rush on their part. Also I don’t plan to use it. There was a rumor universal makes you wear a wristband but their social media said that is not true. Honestly I was thinking I was going to have to contact my specialist to get a specific letter but I did not. Somehow them only getting page 2 of the 2 page fmla paperwork was enough. That page did have my work accommodations on it so maybe that was lucky idk. I honestly do not think they are scrutinizing this as much as I thought they would be. Just my 2cents.

Based on how I am reading this is sounds like they hardly had any process at their end to give you a card. They received info that wouldn't tell them what you need, just went on what you checked and immediately gave you a card. Doesn't seem very "vetted" for lack of a term.

And how does Universal know to contact you? They don't have a reservation system and wouldn't know someone is coming. And this service is supposed to be valid for ANY theme park you are going to that they service. Did they ask you for specific information about your trip that they will then forward?

It almost sounds less difficult to get than it is at Universal in person.