Tracing my family History back through Europe... updated 6/12

[LovesTimone]

So in tracing some of my family roots, I have found out some very interesting things, that really I had know earthly idea about... As well learning about how how to go about getting dual Citizenship, is mind boggling... Each country is very different... So the first step is to find out about my families history, and then go from there...

So I looking at my Mom parents -
My Grandmothers - Father ( my Great Grand Father)was was born and raised in Germany( both parents were German) and He immigrated to America with all his brothers and sister, still working on the exact date they arrived, and became citizens.
My Grandmothers - Mother - I thought that she was German as well... That's not correct - Apparently she was adopted by a German minister and his wife... I remember my Granny telling me that her mother spoke 3 languages, German, English and French... but only spoke French sometimes and kinda in secret, my Great Grandfather did not wanting them speaking anything but English, as they were Americans... the more Research I have done on her, is that both her parents were French, and that she had 12 brother and sister, Her mother died when she was very little, cause unknown, her father could or would not take care of the children, so they were basically given to whoever would take them... The problem I am running into is there is no birth certificate or adoptions paper for her to this couple... that I have been able to find.. She just pops up in Kentucky, with a marriage license to my Great Grandfather...

My Grandfathers - Grandmother was supposedly Irish, which may or may not be the truth... My Granny said that really they were from Scotland, and had flee to Ireland due to some type of uprising that they started in Scotland... which was some type of family secret... She( my great great Grandmother I think that right) came to America by herself, with her children, and was pregnant with my Grandfather's - Dad ( so my Great Grandfather) and he was born on the ship coming over here, So he was given dual citizenship ( Irish and American)... She used a different name when coming here, either her maiden name, or her moms maiden name... still running all this down...

Looking at my Dad's side -
My Grandfather's - family were thought to be English, the more I dig, It looks like Scotland, maybe Wales, My Dad said that the stories that they were told as Children was that way back when there was some type of arranged marriage, between a English noble and a Scottish noble woman, and apparently she wasn't having it... and ended up running off with someone else he was Scottish, and something of a rebel, and at some point they fled to America. My Dad said she possibly had children with the English gentleman, and as well as the Scottish man, and since there are not any birth records.... again that I can find... It's very muddied up... and again it is something that was passed down sooo who really knows... this side of the family is really hard to find anything on them... lots of creative name changing, spellings, and such to weed through...

My Grandmother - family French 100 %... from what I can find, At some point they were living the Louisiana Territory,

So for me to prove and be able to file for dual Citizenship, I think I have to prove one grandparent was 100 percent, either- French, German, English, Irish or Scottish...

The other way is to marry someone - Which isn't going to work as I am already married.. very happily

I am not living in Europe which is the last way...

The reason I want dual Citizenship, is that we love to travel, and from what I can tell it is easier to move about with a European passport... as well if we ever got a wild hair and wanted to buy a flat in Europe it would be soo much easier... so if we were to buy a flat, we could use it as Vacation rental property, which is not allowed if you are an American with property in certain countries... I think...

So looking for suggestion on where I can start to look for all the missing piece of the puzzle that is my family history...

Thanks so much...

 

[OldSchoolReasons]

As far as I'm aware you need a parent who is of the country of origin to hold dual citizenship. This may be different in some EU countries, but is definitely the case in the UK. Even marrying wouldn't get you citizenship, just a spousal one which is different.

As far as researching your family tree, for the English and Irish the National Archives and British Library will be invaluable but they're not currently open and I'm not sure how good their digital files are, it may be an in-person thing.

 

[SirDuff]

Neither English nor Scottish would really help much anymore (even if you could get citizenship through a grandparent) - they aren't EU anymore.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The only passport that will help you in the way that you want is an Irish passport. If you have English, Scottish or Welsh ancestors don't even bother. This is because England, Scotland and Wales as well as Northern Ireland are The UK and on December 31 2020 The UK left The European Union, the EU, in a process known as Brexit.

The Republic of Ireland is part of The European Union, the EU. As a member county, anyone with an Irish passport has the right of freedom of travel between member countries ONLY. This includes countries like France, Germany, Italy, Spain Portugal but NOT The UK.

This is the information from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs about how to obtain an Irish passport through your ancestors. https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/

 

[BadPinkTink]

https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abroad/
You can become an Irish citizen if:

1. One of your grandparents was born on the island of Ireland, or;
2. One of your parents was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, even though they were not born on the island of Ireland.

In these cases, you can become an Irish citizen through Foreign Birth Registration.

Once a person is entered onto the Foreign Births Register they are an Irish citizen and entitled to apply for an Irish passport.

https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/
Processing of Foreign Birth registrations is paused during Level 5 of the National Framework for Living with COVID-19 from 24 December 2020.

Please do not send supporting documentation as these cannot be processed at this time.

Applications that have been sent to the FBR team have been securely held and will now be processed in strict date order. At present, due to the complex nature of the Foreign Birth Registration it takes between 12 to 18 months to process a completed Foreign Birth Registration application.

Your birth can be entered on the Foreign Births Register if you are eligible to become an Irish citizen. Find out what you need to do before you begin your online application.

 

[BadPinkTink]

https://www.germany-visa.org/immigration-residence-permit/german-citizenship/
Getting German citizenship by right of blood or Jus Sanguinis means that you get German citizenship if you are a direct descendant of German citizens. This includes only your parents and no other relatives

You cannot get German citizenship if you were born in a foreign country and your German parents were also born in a foreign country after January 1st, 2000.

 

[BadPinkTink]

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N111
To get a French passport you have to either

• Marry a French person
• Be a parent or grandparent of a French person
• Be a sibling of a French person
• Naturalization

 

[LovesTimone]

The only passport that will help you in the way that you want is an Irish passport. If you have English, Scottish or Welsh ancestors don't even bother. This is because England, Scotland and Wales as well as Northern Ireland are The UK and on December 31 2020 The UK left The European Union, the EU, in a process known as Brexit.

The Republic of Ireland is part of The European Union, the EU. As a member county, anyone with an Irish passport has the right of freedom of travel between member countries ONLY. This includes countries like France, Germany, Italy, Spain Portugal but NOT The UK.

This is the information from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs about how to obtain an Irish passport through your ancestors. https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/

So I talked to my mom so more today, and my Aunt has some paperwork, on my Great Grandmother, apparently the war was going on, and really no one has really any idea of her family history... so we will have to see what that turns up, Plus we are not sure if her last name listed on the marriage license is correct, it could be that of the family that took her in? not her bio-fathers name? more puzzles...

My mom said she is pretty sure that her Grandfather on her Dads side of the family, was consider and Irish Citizen, as well as an American citizen because, he was born on a ship from Ireland to the US, and it's possible his mom was born in Ireland, and was married to an Irish man... So that would mean my Grandfather was 100% Irish, ... Which make much more sense, as well no one know why she came alone to America, and where the father of her children was, whether he stayed behind, or if he died on the ship, or disappeared once they arrived, they is really nothing on him once they arrived, not even a death notice or anything... My mom said that they she is not sure if they came through Ellis Island or not, due to the fact she was using another name for the voyage over, and then another once she arrived, so looking for her is complex, I have what they think is about the year that they arrived, but some things written in the family bible, don't line up with it... and normally the family bible is some what correct, within at least a few month of something happening... such as births, marriages, and deaths..

I can only work on this for a while then, my brain starts to hurt.. LOL

 

[BadPinkTink]

So I talked to my mom so more today, and my Aunt has some paperwork, on my Great Grandmother, apparently the war was going on, and really no one has really any idea of her family history... so we will have to see what that turns up, Plus we are not sure if her last name listed on the marriage license is correct, it could be that of the family that took her in? not her bio-fathers name? more puzzles...

My mom said she is pretty sure that her Grandfather on her Dads side of the family, was consider and Irish Citizen, as well as an American citizen because, he was born on a ship from Ireland to the US, and it's possible his mom was born in Ireland, and was married to an Irish man... So that would mean my Grandfather was 100% Irish, ... Which make much more sense, as well no one know why she came alone to America, and where the father of her children was, whether he stayed behind, or if he died on the ship, or disappeared once they arrived, they is really nothing on him once they arrived, not even a death notice or anything... My mom said that they she is not sure if they came through Ellis Island or not, due to the fact she was using another name for the voyage over, and then another once she arrived, so looking for her is complex, I have what they think is about the year that they arrived, but some things written in the family bible, don't line up with it... and normally the family bible is some what correct, within at least a few month of something happening... such as births, marriages, and deaths..

I can only work on this for a while then, my brain starts to hurt.. LOL

if you have dates approx years corresponding to each of these people / events it would be easier to help you try to fill in the blanks. My mom has done alot of family history, tracing our family back through generations in Ireland, so I can help you with where to go to look for info. Without knowing dates approx years, its very hard to give you further information

 

[LovesTimone]

if you have dates approx years corresponding to each of these people / events it would be easier to help you try to fill in the blanks. My mom has done alot of family history, tracing our family back through generations in Ireland, so I can help you with where to go to look for info. Without knowing dates approx years, its very hard to give you further information

Wow Thanks... I am really trying to nail it down to a within a couple of years, Apparently not only did she play around with different versions of her name, I think she lied about her age, She was quite a gal... LOL If I do, I will PM you for sure...

 

[LovesTimone]

.. Op here..

I have been working on this some more and we did find out that my Great Grandmother on my mom side was 100 percent French... both parents were French born and she was also french born along with all her siblings... which is a big surprise to everyone... Everyone in the family thought she was German... we are now trying to figure out how she got Kentucky where we have her marriage record, and she was only 15 at the time...

We have what we think is a strong maybe...

We are pretty sure that her father was some type of fisherman, or worked on large ships and worked along the Mediterranean coast line.
This could be one possibility on how they came to America, possibly he and the older children worked on the ocean ship for passage to America... Still that is just a thought...

He used ... the same name as - first and last just different spellings... Francois, Franc, Frances, Franco, Franz and Frank... as well as Francis, Frances or Francoise normally as the last name... So finding him has been quite challenging... once we realized this we have been making some head way... I guess it was common to change ones name depending on where you were at, to protect yourself, and be able to work...

I love history so unwinding my families history is really fulfilling...

 

[Karin1984]

.. Op here..

I have been working on this some more and we did find out that my Great Grandmother on my mom side was 100 percent French... both parents were French born and she was also french born along with all her siblings... which is a big surprise to everyone... Everyone in the family thought she was German... we are now trying to figure out how she got Kentucky where we have her marriage record, and she was only 15 at the time...

We have what we think is a strong maybe...

We are pretty sure that her father was some type of fisherman, or worked on large ships and worked along the Mediterranean coast line.
This could be one possibility on how they came to America, possibly he and the older children worked on the ocean ship for passage to America... Still that is just a thought...

He used ... the same name as - first and last just different spellings... Francois, Franc, Frances, Franco, Franz and Frank... as well as Francis, Frances or Francoise normally as the last name... So finding him has been quite challenging... once we realized this we have been making some head way... I guess it was common to change ones name depending on where you were at, to protect yourself, and be able to work...

I love history so unwinding my families history is really fulfilling...

Names were also changed because the officials in the US spoke English, the immigrants didn't. The last name became what the official thought was said or how it was spelled.
My last name has a EI in it, when some of my family tree moved to the US in the early 1900s it became IE. There are also US versions of my last name where a T was added in the middle.

 

[Woodview]

Note Borders of Countries changed over the years So The Border of Germany , France, Belgium Are not

what they were in 1900

Now start Which City were your Great Great Grandparents Born & what year ?

Next Which City was your Grandmother born & When ?

Census Data is another avenue to Search again provided you have a City , Name & date


You can look up Passenger Lists for emigrants who made there way from Europe to Ellis Island &

what ship they sailed on Provided that you have a Rough Date of travel


( My own , on my mothers side were French Hougenouts & came to Ireland many many years ago.
Branches are still in Brisbane ... Australia, CoCoa Beach in Florida, Vancouver in Canada ))

 

[Woodview]

Thank you " I Love.................. " for seeking out this thread of 14 months ago

Any Luck on your search. ?

NOTE The Irish Passport Office is closed , over Covid 19 but will reopen within 3 weeks BUT there

is a huge backlog of applications to process

 

[LovesTimone]

OP here...

I have still have been working on this, my cousin and I have hit a snag for sure...

We thought that we had figured out a few things on my mom's grandmother ( my great grandmother)... now we are not sure at all, and may have been chasing the wrong thread... So what we now think is that she might have been born in what is now Austria, .. as we found what we think is a birth notice for her, if its correct then she was a year younger than we thought, I guess with 12 or 13 kids keeping up with how old they are were, wasn't something that was a priority. Feeding them and keeping a roof over there head would have been the only priority...

Then we found another document showing that that her father, and kids were in Austria and Switzerland... We have no idea what happened to my great grandmother's mother, we can not find anything on her after my grandmother was born...

Then we lose them for several years, then he pops up in France working on large boats or ships, as some type of fisherman, and/or possibly a member of the crew.
We did find records of several of what we think are my Great Grandmothers older brothers working on the ships as well. The first names are pretty much the same, just different spellings, and the last names are all the same spelling, and different depending on what ship/company they were working on... and all the ages work out...

My cousin thinks that he worked on a large vessel and this is how he got the family to America... That he and the older boys worked as part of the crew and most likely the girls worked in the kitchen.. for passage to America and that their father either died at sea, and people just took the kids, or he gave them up or that once they got here he abandoned them, and slipped off the ship... We did find out that alot of people came on what were like cargo ships, who worked for passage to America... they came into Virginia or Kentucky..., and were given citizenship.

So what for sure we know she was raised by a minster and his wife and she was their only child... there are no adoption record for them adopting her..

She said that she remembered having brothers and sisters. The minister and his wife would not allow her to talk about them.


At some point somehow that her brothers found her...and here again it gets muddied up... We think that one or more of her brothers and sisters found out where she was and came and got her or she ran away with them..

We do know that she was well educated, she could read and write, speak English, French and German, and was taught math, as my grandmother said she kept the records for the farm, and the church that they attended...

We did find some paperwork that shows one of her brother owning several buildings and businesses. We think that she must have worked in one of them, we think some type of General store or Feed Store... and this is how my great grandparents met. This goes with the family stories of how they meet.

What we do know for sure and have the proof of is my great grandmother popping up with a marriage license in Kentucky, she would have been 15 or 16.. She used the family last name... My uncle found a copy of the marriage license. He was shocked when he came across it in my grandmother filing cabinet... from there we can trace them both my great grandparents, here in the US.

My grandmother was born in Minnesota and lived on the family farm, until her parents sold it, and moved to Florida, and bought a filling station (gas station and mechanic shop).

I'm not sure if we will ever know the whole story... so my cousin is tracing her brothers as there seem to be more threads to follow...