Tiered Benefits

[tjkraz]

There is literally nothing they could offer as an incentive that would cause us to add on.

Oh, I'm sure there's something they could offer which would change your mind. How park admission for all room occupants for the next 40 years? Free dining plan? Free rounds of golf and boat rentals?

None of those are particularly realistic but I do agree with Dean's point--everyone has their price. There does exist a perk/benefit that Disney COULD offer which would prompt an add-on. But before they offer any perks, careful consideration will be given to the cost of said perk vs. the revenues generated by add-on point sales.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I am waiting to see the points reallocations. Although I was minimally affected last go round, I will be MOST PO'd if they make major changes. It's no secret it will cause some to have to add on. That coupled with the Tiered incentives will push many into purchasing.

I don't like being manipulated. I will not add-on. Like others have said, there is nothing that will make us purchase. We have enough points. My kids better start using some of them or we will be point downsizing in the future.

 

[disneynutz]

I expect additional separation of perks or benefits between resale and direct purchases as Disney's way of justifying the increased prices.

IMO tiered benefits will only apply to grandfathered and direct owners. Offering anything not available to other DVC owners or the general public is enough to make some people add on.

How do you feel when CM's say "welcome home", or when you use the gold KTTW card to access the Concierge area of the resort, or book the tour only available to certain guests.

Being in a special club and being treated different than others is almost as powerful as getting free food.

Bill

 

[Sammie]

Oh, I'm sure there's something they could offer which would change your mind. How park admission for all room occupants for the next 40 years? Free dining plan? Free rounds of golf and boat rentals?

None of those are particularly realistic but I do agree with Dean's point--everyone has their price. There does exist a perk/benefit that Disney COULD offer which would prompt an add-on. But before they offer any perks, careful consideration will be given to the cost of said perk vs. the revenues generated by add-on point sales.

Actually and no offense to you or Dean, but the things they could offer have little importance to me and trips to Disney World are becoming less and less appealing.

So no, honestly, there is Nothing they can offer that would make me want more points.

And actually I find it somewhat insulting to think that you and Dean think everyone has a price. Because no we don't. We have enough, we don't want or need anymore. Our life is much less materialistic than that.

I am glad for them to offer any perks to others but we are not interested.

We eat the majority of our meals off property or in the villa, we don't boat or golf and our tickets are given to us. So none of those things appeal to me or are needed. So knowing what they can offer, even stretching it to the upper limits, there is nothing they can offer that would make me want more points.

Just because you can have something, does not mean you want it. If I don't want to dine with Disney it being "free" which truly it would not be, because I would have to buy more points to get, would not appeal to me.

We spend the majority of our points on trips to HHI and I seriously doubt any Tier program will affect that. So we are very happy with what we have. We can free valet due to a handicap sticker, so free valet has no benefit to us. We could care less about where our room is located, so that would not appeal, we don't even care which resort we stay in so advance booking has no appeal. We have booked the majority of our Disney trips at 5-6 months out and have been happy with whatever we get.

If we were shut out of even booking at Disney World, I would use my points at HHI and pay cash and book with DRC if I wanted to go to Disney World, or book with a CM discount. So see really I don't think you or Disney can come up with anything that would be incentive to buy more points.

You honestly would have to know more than you do about my personal life and preferences to know that; including enough points to pretty much cover the Tiers anyway.

Several people in this thread have pretty much said the same thing that a Tier program will not be anything to cause them to add on. Not sure why I am the one that got questioned over it though, We are more likely to get rid of points than add on.

Happy New Year anyway.

 

[Fatalbie]

I'm pretty sure they would be looking for me to at least double my points to qualify. Not in the cards for me, even if the incentive is real nice.
Jim

 

[Greysword]

Actually and no offense to you or Dean, but the things they could offer have little importance to me and trips to Disney World are becoming less and less appealing.

So no, honestly, there is Nothing they can offer that would make me want more points.

And actually I find it somewhat insulting to think that you and Dean think everyone has a price. Because no we don't. We have enough, we don't want or need anymore.

What if they offered one free domestic round trip airline ticket, every year for the life of the contract, on Disney's partner airline (currently Delta) for those who add on at least 100 points to reach the 600+ direct point tier (or with an additional 100 direct point add on for those in the 600+ tier, either resale or direct)? At $140/point, that would be $14,000. Divided by 42 years, this would be effectively prepaying an airline ticket at $333 (today's prices), with additional DVC points as a bonus (along with any other tier benefits the person may receive). I premise this would motivate a LOT of people, and it would be feasible*.

* The feasibility is this:
1) The partner airline knows that people generally don't visit WDW alone, rather they bring at least 1 other person. The price per airline ticket for the additional person will likely be in a tier just above the bottom econo ticket (maybe $300 or >), thus will be fairly equivalent to a "BOGO free" scenario. If it is a family of 4, they airline will make a profit.

2) It almost guarantees travel for the whole nuclear family (and likely extended family traveling with them) on the partner airline, instead of a competitor (like Southwest, since I think Delta is currently WDW partner airline). Thus, business will be directed toward them.

3) DVD will likely subsidize a portion of this incentive for the airline, and offer it instead of the pricing discount. They may also limit it to the current resorts.

4) Would permit the airline to market to the DVC family their credit cards and other incentives, thus potentially channeling more business for the airline.


Just thinking....

 

[Sammie]

What if they offered one free domestic round trip airline ticket, every year for the life of the contract, on Disney's partner airline (currently Delta) for those who add on at least 100 points to reach the 600+ direct point tier (or with an additional 100 direct point add on for those in the 600+ tier, either resale or direct)? At $140/point, that would be $14,000. Divided by 42 years, this would be effectively prepaying an airline ticket at $333 (today's prices), with additional DVC points as a bonus (along with any other tier benefits the person may receive). I premise this would motivate a LOT of people, and it would be feasible*.

* The feasibility is this:
1) The partner airline knows that people generally don't visit WDW alone, rather they bring at least 1 other person. The price per airline ticket for the additional person will likely be in a tier just above the bottom econo ticket (maybe $300 or >), thus will be fairly equivalent to a "BOGO free" scenario. If it is a family of 4, they airline will make a profit.

2) It almost guarantees travel for the whole nuclear family (and likely extended family traveling with them) on the partner airline, instead of a competitor (like Southwest, since I think Delta is currently WDW partner airline). Thus, business will be directed toward them.

3) DVD will likely subsidize a portion of this incentive for the airline, and offer it instead of the pricing discount. They may also limit it to the current resorts.

4) Would permit the airline to market to the DVC family their credit cards and other incentives, thus potentially channeling more business for the airline.


Just thinking....

I hate flying worse than going to the dentist for a root canal. Flying for me is a life and death situation, so see that would not appeal either. If going anywhere involves flying I don't go. As to Disney World and HHI, we are close enough to drive.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Those are very unrealistic incentives. However, no that would not be enough to make me add on.

What if they offered one free domestic round trip airline ticket, every year for the life of the contract, on Disney's partner airline (currently Delta) for those who add on at least 100 points to reach the 600+ direct point tier (or with an additional 100 direct point add on for those in the 600+ tier, either resale or direct)? At $140/point, that would be $14,000. Divided by 42 years, this would be effectively prepaying an airline ticket at $333 (today's prices), with additional DVC points as a bonus (along with any other tier benefits the person may receive). I premise this would motivate a LOT of people, and it would be feasible*.

* The feasibility is this:
1) The partner airline knows that people generally don't visit WDW alone, rather they bring at least 1 other person. The price per airline ticket for the additional person will likely be in a tier just above the bottom econo ticket (maybe $300 or >), thus will be fairly equivalent to a "BOGO free" scenario. If it is a family of 4, they airline will make a profit.

2) It almost guarantees travel for the whole nuclear family (and likely extended family traveling with them) on the partner airline, instead of a competitor (like Southwest, since I think Delta is currently WDW partner airline). Thus, business will be directed toward them.

3) DVD will likely subsidize a portion of this incentive for the airline, and offer it instead of the pricing discount. They may also limit it to the current resorts.

4) Would permit the airline to market to the DVC family their credit cards and other incentives, thus potentially channeling more business for the airline.


Just thinking....

 

[Greysword]

Those are very unrealistic incentives. However, no that would not be enough to make me add on.

Why is it unrealistic?

ETA: Just to shore up the cost portion of my argument, there is another thread regarding a price drop in Southwest airline fares to $81 each way:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2847604

If SW were the partner airline (just for argument sake), and the incentive ticket dis allowed the family access to these lower fares, then the family would be paying the $364 round trip, leaving $202 for SW ($40 profit). Plausible, I think.

 

[Anal Annie]

What if they offered one free domestic round trip airline ticket, every year for the life of the contract, on Disney's partner airline (currently Delta) for those who add on at least 100 points to reach the 600+ direct point tier (or with an additional 100 direct point add on for those in the 600+ tier, either resale or direct)? At $140/point, that would be $14,000. Divided by 42 years, this would be effectively prepaying an airline ticket at $333 (today's prices), with additional DVC points as a bonus (along with any other tier benefits the person may receive). I premise this would motivate a LOT of people, and it would be feasible*.

* The feasibility is this:
1) The partner airline knows that people generally don't visit WDW alone, rather they bring at least 1 other person. The price per airline ticket for the additional person will likely be in a tier just above the bottom econo ticket (maybe $300 or >), thus will be fairly equivalent to a "BOGO free" scenario. If it is a family of 4, they airline will make a profit.

2) It almost guarantees travel for the whole nuclear family (and likely extended family traveling with them) on the partner airline, instead of a competitor (like Southwest, since I think Delta is currently WDW partner airline). Thus, business will be directed toward them.

3) DVD will likely subsidize a portion of this incentive for the airline, and offer it instead of the pricing discount. They may also limit it to the current resorts.

4) Would permit the airline to market to the DVC family their credit cards and other incentives, thus potentially channeling more business for the airline.


Just thinking....

Yeah, right!! Good one!! That's about as likely as a 50% discount on AP's!! And it wouldn't help those who are within driving distance (there are lots of FL and GA owners for example who can drive to WDW in no time).

AND it would still leave a great majority of us WAAAY short of 600 points. Even if they could afford to add on AT ALL, 600 points is more than most can afford annual dues for. We only have 250 points...there's no way in H that we could afford another 350 points. That's just an absurd number when I'm sure a vast majority own under 200 points.

 

[Greysword]

Yeah, right!! Good one!! That's about as likely as a 50% discount on AP's!! And it wouldn't help those who are within driving distance (there are lots of FL and GA owners for example who can drive to WDW in no time).

AND it would still leave a great majority of us WAAAY short of 600 points. Even if they could afford to add on AT ALL, 600 points is more than most can afford annual dues for. We only have 250 points...there's no way in H that we could afford another 350 points. That's just an absurd number when I'm sure a vast majority own under 200 points.

Unfortunately, I'm not privy to the information required to full defend such a business case (such as the amount partner airlines pay Disney to advertise as their partner or place the Disney logos on their aircraft, or the amount various airlines spend in incentives to drive business to themselves, like cutting the cost of seats from $132 to $88 to fill empty seats or frequent flyer miles). However, it isn't as silly an idea as your post makes it out to be.

There would likely be some restrictions on companion fares, but I bet I could put together a solid ROI case for both the airline and Disney that would show conservative profit numbers and increase in both flyers (over the course of five years) and DVC points sold (within 2 years), as well as a solid investment discussion for the DVD sales team to present to both new and existing customers. Given the amount spent to acquire new and retain current customers, especially in the WalMart, lowest bidder, no brand loyalty retail environment, it would be a boon to the partner airline to maintain a solid line of business.

I guess it is obvious, based on your comments, that you would not be within the target demographic, Annie; however, there are likely just as many members relatively near or above the 600 point mark that would be the target market for this incentive. The deficit begins to slowly shrink, as people add on a 50 points here and 50 points there. For instance, we have a total of 360 point, which means we would need to spend 240 to reach the incentive. If I were planning on reaching this point level anyway (or close to it), it would certainly make me take notice. If I added on another 150 points (100 at VGC and 50 at BLT, as we would like to do), then that reduces the deficit to 90 points.

Also, I don't know why you are limiting it to WDW and Florida. There are many people West of the Mississippi that visit Disneyland, and tend to fly to get there. Quite a few are also waiting to get points at VGC, and would be in line for a new DVC resort at DLH, if it comes to pass. Someone with 200 points in Florida and/or Hawai'i, may just buy 200 points in California.

I don't think we have the proper information to dismiss anything outright, even if the idea was fetching.

On another thought, why would a 50% discount on APs be unheard of for a higher tier? The key is to make a benefit economically worth making the leap, even if the benefit is spread over decades.

ETA: I reread your comments, and you are right. It won't motivate those with 200 or less, but this isn't a bad thing, since a smaller pool of qualified individuals means less risk for the airline. It also provides a solid incentive for those that do qualify, one that could very well make other take notice. Like most other incentives instead of the free airline ticket (total value over the life of the contract of $13,000), you could accept the $10/point rebate (valued at $1,000) if you are local and/or prefer to drive.

 

[Dean]

With the Disney price so high and resales so low, there is NO perk they can offer me that would make up the difference in price.

I am obviously not understanding your point, which is usual I guess.

There is literally nothing they could offer as an incentive that would cause us to add on.

We have more than enough points for our needs. So no there is nothing they can offer that would change that.

We will not be adding on, ever. It is not about being able to afford it, it simply is a case of we don't want it. I really do not understand your comment.

I can afford many things that I do not buy and more DVC points are in that category. There are many times I feel we have too many, why would I possibly want more.

Whether there is a perk that they will offer that will get a given member is unknown. However, there would be a point where you would bite if you could swing it. Let me give an extreme example to make the point, which is that every member has their price.

For sake of discussion lets say a 25 points add on would get all the following.

• Convert all unqualified points to qualified.
• Allow the member to use points for the DP, tickets and dues at a reasonable rate.
• Give priority access to wait lists including first dibs on reservations.
• Give a priority phone number of those members to use.
• Offer a discount on maint fees for larger points members.
• Allow the rental of unused and breakage inventory at a much reduced rate.
• Allow direct and priority access to RCI along with cheaper exchanges.
• member only access to extra magic.

I could go on but you get the idea from what Tim and I have listed. I'm sure some are thinking "no way this would happen" and it likely won't, but every option I mentioned is either in play or had been for other Timeshare points systems within the last couple of years other than the extra magic access which is currently available to all WDW guests. I doubt DVC will go this extreme and thus such a program will likely have little impact but I'll say again, I believe EVERY member has their price (if they can afford it) including those that scream the loudest and I'm sorry if that offends you.

 

[Sammie]

Whether there is a perk that they will offer that will get a given member is unknown. However, there would be a point where you would bite if you could swing it. Let me give an extreme example to make the point, which is that every member has their price.

For sake of discussion lets say a 25 points add on would get all the following.

• Convert all unqualified points to qualified.
• Allow the member to use points for the DP, tickets and dues at a reasonable rate.
• Give priority access to wait lists including first dibs on reservations.
• Give a priority phone number of those members to use.
• Offer a discount on maint fees for larger points members.
• Allow the rental of unused and breakage inventory at a much reduced rate.
• Allow direct and priority access to RCI along with cheaper exchanges.
• member only access to extra magic.

I could go on but you get the idea from what Tim and I have listed. I'm sure some are thinking "no way this would happen" and it likely won't, but every option I mentioned is either in play or had been for other Timeshare points systems within the last couple of years other than the extra magic access which is currently available to all WDW guests. I doubt DVC will go this extreme and thus such a program will likely have little impact but I'll say again, I believe EVERY member has their price (if they can afford it) including those that scream the loudest and I'm sorry if that offends you.

The only thing that offends me is you presuming to know me.

To me DVC is like any other major purchase. I drive a Toyota, I can afford a BMW or a Lexus or any other more expensive car. But the thing is I don't need it or want it.

I don't want or need any more DVC points, not even 5 more. Downsizing is more in my future than adding on. Your list while interesting is not anything I feel they would ever offer.

All our points are direct. We have enough to qualify for the upper Tier.

I know you know a lot about timeshares and respect that, however you know very little about me personally, therefore there is no way for you to really know whether I am right and you are wrong.

The only increase in points I would be interested in would be completely without cost to me and we know that is not going to happen.

Your fantasy list does not appeal to me and the real list of what they can and will offer definitely does not.

Again and we will have to agree to disagree, I don't think every member has their price.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Wow Dean that's a pretty low bar you set at 25 Pts. We all know that it will be either obtaining a certain number of points or a set point add-on to get these incentives. They are not " free" by any stretch of the imagination. One will be paying for these free incentives not only with the upfront initial add on cost but also with the MF's associated with that add on. Talk about locking in your clientele.

Before I invest one more dollar, I want to know what the future direction of DVC is going to be. There have already been 2, soon to be 3 point reallocations in the last 4 years. I look at this as an erosion of my TS. I want to see how I am impacted with this next reallocation. II is now RCI. Again another erosion. MF's just increased an average of 8%. Sorry, nothing is going to sway me to buy more points.

 

[mopee3]

Wow a bunch of the "oldsters", that would be those with thousands of posts, trading body shots over something that has not happened yet.

Must be a slow night, or the tv/football shows are boring.

moe

 

[Anal Annie]

Unfortunately, I'm not privy to the information required to full defend such a business case (such as the amount partner airlines pay Disney to advertise as their partner or place the Disney logos on their aircraft, or the amount various airlines spend in incentives to drive business to themselves, like cutting the cost of seats from $132 to $88 to fill empty seats or frequent flyer miles). However, it isn't as silly an idea as your post makes it out to be.

There would likely be some restrictions on companion fares, but I bet I could put together a solid ROI case for both the airline and Disney that would show conservative profit numbers and increase in both flyers (over the course of five years) and DVC points sold (within 2 years), as well as a solid investment discussion for the DVD sales team to present to both new and existing customers. Given the amount spent to acquire new and retain current customers, especially in the WalMart, lowest bidder, no brand loyalty retail environment, it would be a boon to the partner airline to maintain a solid line of business.

I guess it is obvious, based on your comments, that you would not be within the target demographic, Annie; however, there are likely just as many members relatively near or above the 600 point mark that would be the target market for this incentive. The deficit begins to slowly shrink, as people add on a 50 points here and 50 points there. For instance, we have a total of 360 point, which means we would need to spend 240 to reach the incentive. If I were planning on reaching this point level anyway (or close to it), it would certainly make me take notice. If I added on another 150 points (100 at VGC and 50 at BLT, as we would like to do), then that reduces the deficit to 90 points.

Also, I don't know why you are limiting it to WDW and Florida. There are many people West of the Mississippi that visit Disneyland, and tend to fly to get there. Quite a few are also waiting to get points at VGC, and would be in line for a new DVC resort at DLH, if it comes to pass. Someone with 200 points in Florida and/or Hawai'i, may just buy 200 points in California.

I don't think we have the proper information to dismiss anything outright, even if the idea was fetching.

On another thought, why would a 50% discount on APs be unheard of for a higher tier? The key is to make a benefit economically worth making the leap, even if the benefit is spread over decades.

ETA: I reread your comments, and you are right. It won't motivate those with 200 or less, but this isn't a bad thing, since a smaller pool of qualified individuals means less risk for the airline. It also provides a solid incentive for those that do qualify, one that could very well make other take notice. Like most other incentives instead of the free airline ticket (total value over the life of the contract of $13,000), you could accept the $10/point rebate (valued at $1,000) if you are local and/or prefer to drive.

FIRST of all, don't get your panties in a twist bcuz I used FL as my EXAMPLE...I realize we have a left coast out there and that peeps in No. CA drive to DL etc. It was just an example. There are a lot of peeps who drive to both locations and who always will drive.

SECOND, I just really don't think that Disney would do anything so generous or lucrative as either the free air tix OR a major discount on AP's. I think both your idea and mine reek of spiked egg nog!!


(FWIW I think the AP thing would attract a larger segment of DVC members - those that would LIKE to go more than once or twice a year...but they'd need an add-on to do it...right now they may only buy AP's every other year and stretch out their points in order to have more than 1 trip - then they have to sit out a year. If the AP's were more affordable they may spring for the add-on in order to go every year.)

 

[mopee3]

Let me give an extreme example to make the point, which is that every member has their price.

For sake of discussion lets say a 25 points add on would get all the following.

• Convert all unqualified points to qualified.
• Allow the member to use points for the DP, tickets and dues at a reasonable rate.
• Give priority access to wait lists including first dibs on reservations.
• Give a priority phone number of those members to use.
• Offer a discount on maint fees for larger points members.
• Allow the rental of unused and breakage inventory at a much reduced rate.
• Allow direct and priority access to RCI along with cheaper exchanges.
• member only access to extra magic.

Humm so if I bought an extra 25 points because it put me into the "special treatment" tier, I would get the above??

Sounds good to me, where do I sign up!!!

I say that because eventhough I have been visiting the mouse for a few years, Disneyworld/Disneyland is not old.... unlike some of you all.

Moe

 

[Sammie]

Wow a bunch of the "oldsters", that would be those with thousands of posts, trading body shots over something that has not happened yet.

Must be a slow night, or the tv/football shows are boring.

moe

Naw, it's ok really. I just find it amusing that TJ and Dean think they know me and what I would or won't do and yet my spouse of 30 plus years would be the first to tell you he has no clue.

That's all.

I am sure "if" they offer a tier system, some will respond and many won't. We just happen to be in the category of won't.

We have had our points for over 15 years, all of ours are direct. I know enough about Disney to have a very good idea of what they can and will offer and none of it appeals to me. I have never even used wait list.

As I said unless they are free, we are not buying. My money is ear marked for more important things than DVC.

 

[Dean]

The only thing that offends me is you presuming to know me.

To me DVC is like any other major purchase. I drive a Toyota, I can afford a BMW or a Lexus or any other more expensive car. But the thing is I don't need it or want it.

I don't want or need any more DVC points, not even 5 more. Downsizing is more in my future than adding on. Your list while interesting is not anything I feel they would ever offer.

All our points are direct. We have enough to qualify for the upper Tier.

I know you know a lot about timeshares and respect that, however you know very little about me personally, therefore there is no way for you to really know whether I am right and you are wrong.

The only increase in points I would be interested in would be completely without cost to me and we know that is not going to happen.

Your fantasy list does not appeal to me and the real list of what they can and will offer definitely does not.

Again and we will have to agree to disagree, I don't think every member has their price.

I don't presume to know you or your personality, only human nature in general and the fact that there could be a level of discount and options that would be foolish to turn down and you have admitted there is a level for you even if it's free. I could rephrase it to say that there is a level where it'd be foolish not to add on, which is essentially saying the same thing I believe.

Wow Dean that's a pretty low bar you set at 25 Pts. We all know that it will be either obtaining a certain number of points or a set point add-on to get these incentives. They are not " free" by any stretch of the imagination. One will be paying for these free incentives not only with the upfront initial add on cost but also with the MF's associated with that add on. Talk about locking in your clientele.

Before I invest one more dollar, I want to know what the future direction of DVC is going to be. There have already been 2, soon to be 3 point reallocations in the last 4 years. I look at this as an erosion of my TS. I want to see how I am impacted with this next reallocation. II is now RCI. Again another erosion. MF's just increased an average of 8%. Sorry, nothing is going to sway me to buy more points.

I think I was clear that I was trying to make a point of what could happen, not a prediction of what would happen. I'm not convinced that anything will happen and if it does, I doubt it'll be extreme enough to reach most people based on the additional options themselves. It's far more likely I'll sell than add on as I'd get about as much benefit from 25 points as I do from those I currently own at this point. I've personally spent almost $20K with Marriott for an extra week to get priority reservations at HH's Grande Ocean resort and bought fixed weeks for conversion to BG's points system, both bargains for where I ended up.

DVC has a history of not going far enough with their sales tactics, I'm guessing this issue will be no exception. As I believe I stated on both of the big thread's related to reallocation, I try to understand the products I obligate myself to and that includes not only that reallocations can happen, but they will and they should. There is not erosion of the product from them unless you put yourself in that position by trying to take advantage of the weekend/weekday differentials and/or the season differentials. I did with mostly S-F stays but I knew exactly what likely would happen and what should happen and I've said so both before and after the reallocations were announced.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I've already sold off 175 points. Why on earth would I buy more? I don't need more, I don't need the 325 I have now. We don't fly, we don't do the dining plan, we do go to the parks, but we'll plan the trips to get two on on PAP. We've already done Cirque a few times, that was enough. Don't use RCI, didn't care for cruising. I'm not a fan of the newer resorts and won't go to Hawaii.

A tiered program wouldn't entice me to give Disney any more of my money than I already am. And I hate that I give them as much as I do now.

Besides, they shut down All My Children already and that really teed me off.