The Running Thread - 2016

[croach]

LOL! You know, even the CDC has a contingency plan for zombies.

I forget who recommended several podcasts, but I listened to WEDWAY NOW, Let's run Disney, and Backside of Magic, and all three were great! I bet under "Preposterous Ponderings" they could discuss best places at WDW to defend during a zombie apocalypse. Mostly I'm thinking things like: if I HAD to, I could run to another city to take messages if the cell towers went out. Then I pause and go over the cities that are within 26.2 miles from me. Then I wonder if I did conservative run walk intervals could I make it farther... it all comes together: the scenarios, the math, the podcasts.

Ask and you shall receive -

http://www.wdwtoday.com/article.php?story=2011021107220291

 

[opusone]

I have another newbie runner question! When I was out running the other day I noticed that other runners were moving their legs at about the same rate as me, yet they were going faster. So, clearly they were taking longer strides. It had not occurred to me before that there are essentially two ways to speed up (or slow down): move your feet faster, or take longer strides. I think I tend to change the speed at which my feet move rather than the length of my stride. Is one method generally considered more efficient than the other? Or am I just over thinking this? The reason I am wondering is because when I do my tempo or fast runs I want to make sure I am putting my effort into the things that will benefit me the most. (Also, for background, although I have long legs I think I tend to take short strides because I have very tight hamstrings ... when I tried lengthening my stride the other day I definitely felt some resistance in my hamstring ... but if a longer stride is a better technique then perhaps I will work some more on my hamstrings to be able to take longer strides more easily). TIA

I always try to keep about a 180 cadence (steps/minute) on my faster runs (goal marathon pace or faster), but I do drop down to about 170 on easier runs. In any case, when I am running a 10:00 mile, my stride length will be shorter than when I am running a 7:00 mile. There have been studies about cadence, and they found that most elite runners have about a 180 cadence when racing, even though other metrics regarding the same runners are very different, so I guess there must be some efficiency magic at that cadence. I used to run at a slower cadence, but after reading about these studies, I have purposefully attempted to quickened my pace over the years. After doing it enough times, the faster cadence feels normal.

Here is a short Runner's World article on it: http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/how-to-boost-your-cadence

 

[Kathymford]

I have another newbie runner question! When I was out running the other day I noticed that other runners were moving their legs at about the same rate as me, yet they were going faster. So, clearly they were taking longer strides. It had not occurred to me before that there are essentially two ways to speed up (or slow down): move your feet faster, or take longer strides. I think I tend to change the speed at which my feet move rather than the length of my stride. Is one method generally considered more efficient than the other? Or am I just over thinking this? The reason I am wondering is because when I do my tempo or fast runs I want to make sure I am putting my effort into the things that will benefit me the most. (Also, for background, although I have long legs I think I tend to take short strides because I have very tight hamstrings ... when I tried lengthening my stride the other day I definitely felt some resistance in my hamstring ... but if a longer stride is a better technique then perhaps I will work some more on my hamstrings to be able to take longer strides more easily). TIA

I am by no way an expert on this, but I think this is how I got injured. For some reason I find it impossible to quicken my cadence without lengthening my stride, even when walking. I am convinced trying to do speed work this way is what caused me to pull my adductor. As I'm rebuilding that muscle I noticed it the most during my run last night. The smaller my stride was the less I felt it in that muscle. Meanwhile, I saw this woman passing me (I was on a track) who seemed to be using WAY more arm pumping action than leg action and I remembered reading (who knows where) that to go faster, you should pump your arms more, so I started paying attention to that while keeping my stride smaller. I'm not sure what worked, but I had a great run.

And on that note, I had a great run last night. I'm still building back up, but I increased to 30 sec/2:30 intervals. Even before I left work for my run I knew it was going to be good. My body just felt good. I was very happy with the results. I can feel it a bit in my legs today, but I think in this case it's a good feeling. We'll just call this my tempo run for the week. I will take it easy today and slow it down a bit for my weekend run.

Hope everyone has a great weekend and to those are racing, stay cool!

 

[cburnett11]

Ask and you shall receive -

http://www.wdwtoday.com/article.php?story=2011021107220291

I knew I had heard an episode a while back and knew it had to be wdwtoday. I was going to look for it earlier and post it. Thanks for doing it!

 

[roxymama]

Better to increase your turnover/cadence. Lengthening your stride beyond that which is natural for you could result in an injury. Many trainers suggest cadence drills (where you count the number of steps you take in a minute and try to increase it) for improving speed.

I agree. And I have the issue where when I try to go fast sometimes I have a bad habit of over-striding and putting my feet way in front of my body. I've been working on the faster feet turnover with smaller shuffle like steps that many on this board recommended to me. Its' a work in progress. My garmin keeps track of steps turnover which helps. I think someone here said 180+ is optimal. I don't usually hit that unless I'm doing speed work or in a race.

 

[Miranda]

Do any of you have any favorite tools for keeping track of your training plan? I use Strava, but I don't see anything in there where I can enter all the workouts for my training plan. I can do that on Garmin Connect, I think, but I find that site really clunky to use and I never go there.

 

[dis_or_dat]

Interesting about cadence, I have a naturally high cadence (being short and all - although I think the elite runners averaged 180 regardless of height). I think 190 on the easy runs and 200-210 on speed. The short strides definitely help keep me from significant injuries (really helps on the downhills), but such a high cadence is probably very inefficient.

@Miranda - after getting the Garmin 235, I've put all my training plans for the week using garminconnect - there's a workout tab where you can plan each individual training day including warm up, cool down, resting interval etc. Also you can set alerts to have the watch beep when you're out of the pace range you set. I just label it by days, but there's an option to input it into a calendar too.

 

[r2d2_runner]

Thanks for all your thoughts about cadence etc. I had not thought about the possibility of increased stride length leading to possible injury, but that makes total sense. Glad I asked before I just went ahead with that idea!

 

[roxymama]

Interesting about cadence, I have a naturally high cadence (being short and all - although I think the elite runners averaged 180 regardless of height). I think 190 on the easy runs and 200-210 on speed. The short strides definitely help keep me from significant injuries (really helps on the downhills), but such a high cadence is probably very inefficient.

@Miranda - after getting the Garmin 235, I've put all my training plans for the week using garminconnect - there's a workout tab where you can plan each individual training day including warm up, cool down, resting interval etc. Also you can set alerts to have the watch beep when you're out of the pace range you set. I just label it by days, but there's an option to input it into a calendar too.

I never thought about height and cadence being linked but it makes total sense. I'm pretty tall and have long legs, and my older sister is 5'0 and all my life she'd yell at me for walking too fast while she'd be shuffling to keep up. I'm going to try to mentally pay attention to this today when I go out for my jog

 

[Miranda]

My cadence is not super high, I average between 150-160 when I am running... when I am running fast or running slower. I just went back and compared my cadence from yesterday's run, where I was trying to run easy and ended up with 2.5 miles @ 12:44 vs my fastest run in Strava for the same route, 2.5 @ 11:20. The cadence was pretty much the same for both of them.

At 6'0", with long legs/short torso to boot, I guess I do naturally have more leeway in stride length than someone shorter.

 

[FFigawi]

Do any of you have any favorite tools for keeping track of your training plan? I use Strava, but I don't see anything in there where I can enter all the workouts for my training plan. I can do that on Garmin Connect, I think, but I find that site really clunky to use and I never go there.

I use Training Peaks. It does everything you could want, and then some.

 

[nickyfielding]

Had a bit of a blow today in relation to the disney paris half-marathon in September. I was meant to be running it with my best friend (insane ultra runner) but she has just accepted a teaching job in Nigeria so won't be able to run it with me. Now having to decide whether I can find anyone else to run it with me or do it alone and find someone just to travel with me for support. Need to get myself psyched up again to run as lost the urge to.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

My cadence is not super high, I average between 150-160 when I am running... when I am running fast or running slower. I just went back and compared my cadence from yesterday's run, where I was trying to run easy and ended up with 2.5 miles @ 12:44 vs my fastest run in Strava for the same route, 2.5 @ 11:20. The cadence was pretty much the same for both of them.

At 6'0", with long legs/short torso to boot, I guess I do naturally have more leeway in stride length than someone shorter.

If you are doing a run/walk, cadence is very hard to calculate in a meaningful way. Walking cadence is much slower than running and maintaining a cadence when constantly slowing and speeding up is close to impossible.

 

[Miranda]

If you are doing a run/walk, cadence is very hard to calculate in a meaningful way. Walking cadence is much slower than running and maintaining a cadence when constantly slowing and speeding up is close to impossible.

I look at the cadence on the tops of the plateaus in the Strava graph, the 90 second running stretches, not the overall cadence for the run.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Me too! The drought was rough!



If I never did races and I just ran in random clothes and shoes, I would agree! Now I'm not so sure!

It is still cheaper for me. Getting rid of all my meds saved me so much money.

OMG!! I am such a B when I don't run!! I never realized how therapeutic running can be. FYI: Attachment that's not visual says "running is cheaper than therapy". True Story!

Question for fellow runners: Often times when I run - my right shoulder hurts - up near my clavicle where my humerus attaches... I used to run with my iphone in my right hand, but picked up a arm band/Roosport pouch to help with the issue. Any ideas? Could it be linked to my sciatica?

I can't imagine running with your iPhone would cause the shoulder pain. It could be from a tight muscle or something, just from the way you run. I would have it checked out though just to be safe.

Had a bit of a blow today in relation to the disney paris half-marathon in September. I was meant to be running it with my best friend (insane ultra runner) but she has just accepted a teaching job in Nigeria so won't be able to run it with me. Now having to decide whether I can find anyone else to run it with me or do it alone and find someone just to travel with me for support. Need to get myself psyched up again to run as lost the urge to.

Why not just go alone if you have no other people to go with you. I mean, you'll be in a Disney park, in Paris, not a bad situation.

I missed posting yesterday. We took the kids to a local amusement park and we got home late. Then when we got home we had no water. Just what you want after a 10 hour day at an amusement park in 90' temps. We have well water and the pump died. I can't sleep without a shower, another one of my quirks. So, I jumped in the pool outside and got as much sweat off as I could. So I woke up and had to fix the well. The good news is by doing it myself, which I had never done before, I saved a $1000. But, it still cost me $400, which eats into my Disney fund. Not happy about that one!

After being at the amusement park I was considering a long weekend back at WDW, assuming I get to 210 lbs and reach my goal. This puts a damper on those plans.

 

[Waiting2goback]

 

[Baloo in MI]

I have been gone for the past week on a camping trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan with my family. Wonderful trip! We ended the trip with my race this morning. It was my first trail marathon. The race was on an island in Lake Superior just off Munising, MI (next to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore). I have to say that this was the most beautiful race I have ever run, truly breath taking! The course was quite challenging and included great single track and fire road sections that overlooked Lake Superior, Pictured Rocks, historic buildings and beautiful Michigan forests. One section, about a mile, was along the beach and was so peaceful and invigorating! Great run. I really recommend this race for anyone looking for a destination race. They offered a half marathon, marathon (with two start times to assist with staying under the time limits) and a 50k. It was well organized with shuttles from all the local hotels and then a boat ride out to the island. They even hand you a slip at the end of the race with your time, mile average, and placement in age, gender and overall categories.

I tried to download a few pictures but failed, but take my word for it, watching the sun rise from the shore of the island was worth all 26.2 miles! My goal was to finish in 4:30. I did not meet that goal, finishing in 4:40, but I felt very good about the race. It was a challenging course and the hills chewed my legs up some; so the final 10 miles I fell off the pace a bit. But managed to finish 8th in my age group and 43 overall. It was not a huge race, only about 200-250 people running the marathon and a similar number running the half and a small, and very impressive group, running the 50k. I am very happy with my effort. I left everything on the course and was also able to take in the beauty of the woods and views of the trail run. When it was over I participated in the tradition of jumping into Lake Superior. No ice bath needed for me! It was soooo cold but in the moment felt great. The boat ride back was tough though. If you do the race bring a spare set of clothes to change into before returning.

The one downer occurred after the race when I had the gall to ask for extra watermelon... Forever known now as the great watermelon faux pas of 2016. Seriously it is one slice for each runner according to the volunteer I had the misfortune to interact with! I get making sure there is enough for all the runners, but wow she took watermelon protocol very seriously. As my wife said as we headed to the return boat, I have been watermelon shamed! Every other volunteer I interacted with was awesome and it is a great race. I am going back next year.

I hope everyone else running this weekend had good races and look forward to hearing about them once I catch up on the thread!

 

[michigandergirl]

I have been gone for the past week on a camping trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan with my family. Wonderful trip! We ended the trip with my race this morning. It was my first trail marathon. The race was on an island in Lake Superior just off Munising, MI (next to Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore). I have to say that this was the most beautiful race I have ever run, truly breath taking! The course was quite challenging and included great single track and fire road sections that overlooked Lake Superior, Pictured Rocks, historic buildings and beautiful Michigan forests. One section, about a mile, was along the beach and was so peaceful and invigorating! Great run. I really recommend this race for anyone looking for a destination race. They offered a half marathon, marathon (with two start times to assist with staying under the time limits) and a 50k. It was well organized with shuttles from all the local hotels and then a boat ride out to the island. They even hand you a slip at the end of the race with your time, mile average, and placement in age, gender and overall categories.

I tried to download a few pictures but failed, but take my word for it, watching the sun rise from the shore of the island was worth all 26.2 miles! My goal was to finish in 4:30. I did not meet that goal, finishing in 4:40, but I felt very good about the race. It was a challenging course and the hills chewed my legs up some; so the final 10 miles I fell off the pace a bit. But managed to finish 8th in my age group and 43 overall. It was not a huge race, only about 200-250 people running the marathon and a similar number running the half and a small, and very impressive group, running the 50k. I am very happy with my effort. I left everything on the course and was also able to take in the beauty of the woods and views of the trail run. When it was over I participated in the tradition of jumping into Lake Superior. No ice bath needed for me! It was soooo cold but in the moment felt great. The boat ride back was tough though. If you do the race bring a spare set of clothes to change into before returning.

The one downer occurred after the race when I had the gall to ask for extra watermelon... Forever known now as the great watermelon faux pas of 2016. Seriously it is one slice for each runner according to the volunteer I had the misfortune to interact with! I get making sure there is enough for all the runners, but wow she took watermelon protocol very seriously. As my wife said as we headed to the return boat, I have been watermelon shamed! Every other volunteer I interacted with was awesome and it is a great race. I am going back next year.

I hope everyone else running this weekend had good races and look forward to hearing about them once I catch up on the thread!

Congrats on a great race and finish! It sounds absolutely beautiful, I may have to run it someday. I hope you had cooler weather up there yesterday. It is so miserable here this weekend - oppressive heat and humidity.

We are camping in the UP next month toward the east end of Pictured Rocks, can't wait!

 

[Chasing Dopey]

QOTD: What do you often think about when you are out for a run?

Obviously, I'm way behind! (Just got back from business trip to Orlando. No, really. Several meetings with resorts, clients, a potential client... oh, and the new Star Wars show and Soarin' are AWESOME!)

But I did want to answer this question. Right now, I actually spend most of my time focusing on various aspects of my running, as I'm trying to get tuned in to the feel of everything. It's impossible to think about everything at once, so I drift from one to another (breathing, arm position, posture, impact, hip activating, footfall, etc etc). This is especially helpful as I get tired.

As I do this, I am noticing that each element is getting easier to ignore, and that a natural sweet spot is developing. I don't get very bored, either.

 

[Miranda]

I use Training Peaks. It does everything you could want, and then some.

Thanks... I don't know if I'm hardcore enough yet to really get enough use out of it to justify the fee.

For now I just put it into Garmin Connect, which made me discover that my plan does not start this week like I thought, it's next week! A week reprieve!

My 5K today went ok. I finished in 35:44. I did not make any goals, and didn't even beat my time from last year, but I did feel pretty good the first 2 miles. Then I just felt really hot and was getting really out of breath during the run segments. It was sticky and sunny.

For the next 6 weeks our dog's agility class is 5:30-6:30 instead of 6:30-7:30, so I'm going to try and make a return to YOGA for stretching and some strength. There is a 7pm class. It will be tight, but hopefully I can make it. The NHSPCA is a ways away, but we go through the town where my yoga studio is on the way to/from, so we'll have to go separately, I'll park my car in the town with yoga and then get picked up, go to agility, then get dropped off on the way home.