The Running Thread—2023

[PrincessV]

ATTQOTD: I loooooove cooked beets and add several slices to my daily salads! I’ve seen no increase in aerobic performance, though.

 

[*DisneyDreamer]

Waving from Michigan. Yes, it's not been too great in lower SE MI this week. I don't mind my treadmill but I live for the summers so I can get outside.

I don’t care for summer to begin with, and this is making me dislike it even more. It’s so hard to get into a good running rhythm with heat, and now we have this to deal with too

 

[RuntheMouse]

Anyone else affected by the latest round of wildfire smoke coming in from Canada? All I want to do is go for a run outside but it was awful here yesterday and we’re under an air quality advisory through at least tomorrow yet. It is so unbelievably frustrating because they were saying that yesterday was actually a completely cloudless day, and the temperature/humidity was very comfortable but the sky was completely obscured and smelled like smoke so we couldn’t even take advantage of it. Stuck inside with the windows closed. We’re probably going to be dealing with this on and off all summer.

Northern WI , across the River from the Twin Cities, and I’m over it. The smell of burnt plastic sticks with me for hours after I run. I am lucky that I run in the morning before it gets too bad but even that is getting dicey. I just got back from a 4 miler and the AQI has crossed over into unhealthy (163).

 

[GreatLakes]

Anyone else affected by the latest round of wildfire smoke coming in from Canada? All I want to do is go for a run outside but it was awful here yesterday and we’re under an air quality advisory through at least tomorrow yet. It is so unbelievably frustrating because they were saying that yesterday was actually a completely cloudless day, and the temperature/humidity was very comfortable but the sky was completely obscured and smelled like smoke so we couldn’t even take advantage of it. Stuck inside with the windows closed. We’re probably going to be dealing with this on and off all summer.

We dodged it last time but we are impacted this time around, 291 according to AirNow.gov. I have to skip my run today which is really annoying me, I adjusted my schedule specifically to get in a run at lunch today.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Anyone else affected by the latest round of wildfire smoke coming in from Canada? All I want to do is go for a run outside but it was awful here yesterday and we’re under an air quality advisory through at least tomorrow yet. It is so unbelievably frustrating because they were saying that yesterday was actually a completely cloudless day, and the temperature/humidity was very comfortable but the sky was completely obscured and smelled like smoke so we couldn’t even take advantage of it. Stuck inside with the windows closed. We’re probably going to be dealing with this on and off all summer.

Down in Central Michigan, pretty bad here today! I grew up near the Bay Area in California which often had horrible smog in the valley. Today reminds too much of that! My one benefit, still at the tail end of a running hiatus so I don’t have to worry about getting a run done today.

 

[Grabnar]

QOTD: Do any of you use beets (in any format-- beet juice, beet pills, beet shots, etc...) to enhance your aerobic capacity? DH sent me this article (https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20077395/beet-juice-shots-for-performance/and) as he swears by it...I find beets to be slightly "meh" in flavor but can tolerate it. Curious to know if anyone else has tried it?

No but I love beets so I will be trying this now.

ATTQOTD: I loooooove cooked beets and add several slices to my daily salads! I’ve seen no increase in aerobic performance, though.

Beets produce nitric oxide in the body from their nitrates which dilates blood vessels increasing O2 transport to the muscles/lactate removal. Previous studies show a peak BP drop at the 3hr mark after consumption so waking up early and taking it before a race is probably the best time to take it.

 

[prncssjas]

so waking up early and taking it before a race is probably the best time to take it.

Yes, that's what DH says...he takes a shot an hour before we race and he says that it opens up his lung capacity and his miles feel smooth and "floaty." Ok, I'll take it...lol.

 

[Naomeri]

Anyone else affected by the latest round of wildfire smoke coming in from Canada? All I want to do is go for a run outside but it was awful here yesterday and we’re under an air quality advisory through at least tomorrow yet. It is so unbelievably frustrating because they were saying that yesterday was actually a completely cloudless day, and the temperature/humidity was very comfortable but the sky was completely obscured and smelled like smoke so we couldn’t even take advantage of it. Stuck inside with the windows closed. We’re probably going to be dealing with this on and off all summer.

I was about to say “thankfully, not really” because I hadn’t been outside yet today or looked at my watch, but I stuck my head out and can smell it a bit, and the AQI is 152. Glad I don’t have to run today!

 

[nancipants]

I don't have bad air quality to deal with, thankfully, but it's the time of year when it's disgustingly hot even at 7:30, so I think I'll be on the treadmill most days except for long runs.

I'm still not feeling 100% but I did three miles on the treadmill this morning and the endorphins helped me feel better for about 30 minutes.

 

[camaker]

ATTQOTD: Beets? Nope. Never. My theory is that eating beets or drinking beet juice sends the body into shock at its sheer nastiness, which may have the unintended side effect of dilating blood vessels as they do their best to get their walls away from the beets, increasing blood flow by accident. That's my entirely reasonable, scientific assessment, at least. Oh, and this might be a good time to update the score sheet:

Bananas:
Cilantro:
Treadmills:
Beets:

 

[prncssjas]

Bananas:
Cilantro:
Treadmills:
Beets:

Awwww man, I love cilantro. And my treadmill is not so bad either during icy MI winters....

 

[nancipants]

But what about...

 

[camaker]

Awwww man, I love cilantro. And my treadmill is not so bad either during icy MI winters....

It’s a highly personal list. I’ll only judge a little.

But what about...

View attachment 772197

Two out of three ain’t bad! Bears and Battlestar are top notch!

 

[jmasgat]

Anyone else affected by the latest round of wildfire smoke coming in from Canada? All I want to do is go for a run outside but it was awful here yesterday and we’re under an air quality advisory through at least tomorrow yet. It is so unbelievably frustrating because they were saying that yesterday was actually a completely cloudless day, and the temperature/humidity was very comfortable but the sky was completely obscured and smelled like smoke so we couldn’t even take advantage of it. Stuck inside with the windows closed. We’re probably going to be dealing with this on and off all summer.

Just outside of Detroit, and the AQI (PM2.5) here is the worst in the country (no matter how much they keep talking about Chicago--although it's a contest no one wants to win). Yesterday I did a run in the morning, and I had no clue the AQI was 150+ (Unhealthy). Was not affected. Last evening it was above 200 (Very Unhealthy) and I could definitely smell it in the air. Today it's still elevated--but thankfully not as bad as Port Huron (about 1 hr north of Detroit), where the AQI was 378 (Hazardous). It is hazy outside and the smell is still there. Hoping it will be better by tomorrow am for my run.

As for beets...they make me gag so "no, no, never, never, nuh uh uh".

 

[DopeyBadger]

QOTD: Do any of you use beets (in any format-- beet juice, beet pills, beet shots, etc...) to enhance your aerobic capacity? DH sent me this article (https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20077395/beet-juice-shots-for-performance/and) as he swears by it...I find beets to be slightly "meh" in flavor but can tolerate it. Curious to know if anyone else has tried it?

I did beet shots for a bit. The start of that was here in my training journal in 2017 (link). This was the summarized research that I used as a basis for giving it a try:

-Acute supplementation (one time) with beetroot juice may have an ergogenic effect on reducing VO2 at less than or equal to VO2max intensity, while improving the relationship between watts required and VO2 level, mechanisms that make it possible to enable increase time-to-exhaustion at less than or equal to VO2max intensity.

-In addition to improving efficiency and performance in various time trials or increasing time-to-exhaustion at submaximal intensities, chronic supplementation with beetroot juice may improve cardiorespiratory performance at the anaerobic threshold and VO2max intensities.

-Apparently, the effects of supplementation with beetroot juice might not have a positive interaction with caffeine supplementation, mitigating the effects of beetroot juice intake on cardiorespiratory performance, however, more work is needed to confirm the results of these investigations because the number of studies analyzing the effects of the combination of beetroot juice with other supplements, such as caffeine, is limited.

-Intake of beetroot juice should be initiated within 90 min before athletic effort, since the peak value of NO3 occurs within 2–3 h after ingestion. At least 6–8 mmol (400mg) of NO3 intake is required, which can be increased in athletes with a high level of training.

What's interesting to me is the research is based on two time frames: Acute (one time) and Chronic (6 days). The 6 day data seems to suggest additional benefits above and beyond the acute dosing. It does appear the benefits are about 1-2% in racing times.

For a 24 min 5k, that's 23:31-23:46 just by taking beet root supplementation. A 1:50 HM, would be a 1:47-1:48 by supplement. A 3:04 M, would be a 3:00:19-3:02:10 by supplement. So while, 1-2% seems small it might be just enough extra push to reach a goal (say a 3:04 marathoner's goal of a 2:59 marathon perhaps...)

The source that was tested continuously was from http://beet-it.us/where-to-buy/

Effects of Beetroot Juice Supplementation on Cardiorespiratory Endurance in Athletes. A Systematic Review. Raul Dominguez

This is pharmacodynamic and dose response data based on a single dose.

Beetroot juice and exercise: pharmacodynamic and dose-response relationships. Lee J Wylie.

So this data shows that the timing of the dose matters as far as nitric oxide concentration goes (only this specifically as other gains like blood pressure and mitochondrial changes very well can be a cumulative effect). It shows that the peak of the beet root juice and cardiovascular/VO2max improvements occurs around 2.5-4 hours. If you take it as a night time dose and run in the morning (~12 hrs later), then there will be a small gain over water, but not much. The 24 hr timepoint shows that unless the dose is really high the effects of nitric oxide wear off after 24 hrs. It would be interesting to see pharmacodynamic dosing after a single dose and after 6 doses to see if there is indeed a cumulative effect.

Well the initial caffeine and beetroot juice research seems to imply they don't have an additive effect. One or the other is sufficient in receiving similar benefits.

Another paper seemed to suggest that the time trial benefits is reduced for people with a higher VO2max. Other research contends a higher dose is necessary for those with a higher VO2max.

The really difficult part about the research out there is that everyone seems to be using various dose levels, or various timing on dosing. Based on the pharmacodynamics, it would appear that timing of the dose is critical as well as the amount taken to maximize the effects.

FYI, don't use mouthwash or chew gum when using Beet juice as it negates the effects.

This was my pre-race strategy from Lakefront 2017 when I used Beet-It (link). It was, and still is, my PR, but my final conclusion on the Beet-It was "I felt as if the Beet-It didn't provide any extra benefits at the end of the day. It sure didn't make me feel any different. I didn't have any noticeable decrease in effort, HR, or relationship between them."

 

[FFigawi]

ATTQOTD: Beets? Nope. Never. My theory is that eating beets or drinking beet juice sends the body into shock at its sheer nastiness, which may have the unintended side effect of dilating blood vessels as they do their best to get their walls away from the beets, increasing blood flow by accident. That's my entirely reasonable, scientific assessment, at least. Oh, and this might be a good time to update the score sheet:

Bananas:
Cilantro:
Treadmills:
Beets:

Bananas:
Cilantro:
Treadmills:
Beets:

 

[SheHulk]

ATTQOTD: My maternal grandmother was eastern European and when she was alive and lived next door to us, I ate beets pretty regularly. I don't eat them often now, but they are very nostalgic for me and I love them. I went to a fancy cocktail bar recently and the garnish for my drink was a beet slice! I guess beets are having their moment.

As for running purposes, at least 5 years ago now, I got a sample of some canned beet drink at a race expo. I drank it after the race but it was pretty gross. That was the end of my exposure to beet juice for running.

 

[prncssjas]

So while, 1-2% seems small it might be just enough extra push to reach a goal

That’s all I’m looking for at this point. Let’s see where this goes!

 

[DopeyBadger]

That’s all I’m looking for at this point. Let’s see where this goes!

Moral of the story in my research in 2017 was that caffeine and beet products don't have an additive effect (at least not proven at that time). So if you currently use sufficient structured caffeine supplementation in running, then you probably don't need to add beet products. But I haven't done a research dive on this topic in 6 years, so things could have changed since then.

 

[prncssjas]

So if you currently use sufficient structured caffeine supplementation in running, then you probably don't need to add beet products.

I do not use caffeine supplements for running at all. In fact, I don't even drink coffee . Here's hoping the beet supplement works.