The Great 'Throwaway Room' Debate

[robinb]

Am I blind that I don't even see where Kevin posted that...maybe I need to brew another pot of coffee

I thought I saw something like that post earlier today. Perhaps Kevin choose to delete it (which we mere mortals cannot).

 

[DisneyKevin]

I deleted my post as it seemed to have upset another poster.

This was never my intent.

 

[nugov2]

I thought I saw something like that post earlier today. Perhaps Kevin choose to delete it (which we mere mortals cannot).

Ok....maybe that is it. I forgot of the moderator perk. I apologize to Smith for saying it was an edited post...just wouldn't be the first time I have seen someone do that on the boards. I thought I was losing my mind

 

[Luckybee]

Interesting how many people on these boards constantly say that the CMs at the call center don't know what they are talking about, but are quick to support them when they can use it to get away with something unethical.

There is no difference between doing the throwaway room and doing your child's homework because the teacher said parents should help. Cheating is cheating, and in the case of the people who book the room, get the magic bands, and then cancel the room, it is outright theft. Not something insubstantial like parking or fastpasses that don't have a monetary value, but the actual, physical magic bands that can be bought either in the parks or on line.

Bzzzz...wrong answer...try again ! Nothing unethical at all about BUYING a room and using the benefits attached to that PURCHASE which is what most of us are talking about here. I know there are some who may be in fact do what you are suggesting, but that isn't a "throwaway room".

 

[Luckybee]

I deleted my post as it seemed to have upset another poster.

This was never my intent.

Self Moderation is cool too

 

[olwyngdh]

Bzzzz...wrong answer...try again ! Nothing unethical at all about BUYING a room and using the benefits attached to that PURCHASE which is what most of us are talking about here. I know there are some who may be in fact do what you are suggesting, but that isn't a "throwaway room".

It receives complete approval on the throwaway room thread, so they at least see it that way. And you can feel about it any way you choose, I believe it is unethical to pay for one night and get 10 days benefits in FP+ and dining reservations and magic bands for imaginary people so you can make extra same day fast passes.

I would not game the system like this because I choose to teach my children to be ethical. Go ahead and teach yours they don't have to be as long as they get something out of it

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

It receives complete approval on the throwaway room thread, so they at least see it that way. And you can feel about it any way you choose, I believe it is unethical to pay for one night and get 10 days benefits in FP+ and dining reservations and magic bands for imaginary people so you can make extra same day fast passes.

I would not game the system like this because I choose to teach my children to be ethical. Go ahead and teach yours they don't have to be as long as they get something out of it

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[famy27]

It receives complete approval on the throwaway room thread, so they at least see it that way. And you can feel about it any way you choose, I believe it is unethical to pay for one night and get 10 days benefits in FP+ and dining reservations and magic bands for imaginary people so you can make extra same day fast passes.

I would not game the system like this because I choose to teach my children to be ethical. Go ahead and teach yours they don't have to be as long as they get something out of it

As posted multiple times in this thread, you pay for one night and receive one night (and two days) worth of benefits. Extra magic bands for imaginary people is totally different, and many who support the throwaway room would not order magic bands for fake people. There is absolutely nothing unethical about not using all of the benefits that come with a resort stay. When I stay onsite, I never use free parking. I prefer not to rent a car. I have chosen to use some of the resort stay benefits (sleeping in the room, Magical Express, FP+ booked at 60 days, and Magic Bands) but not other benefits (EMH and free parking). There is no difference in booking a resort reservation and choosing to use only the free parking, Magic Bands, and FP+.

If you don't wish to do something, that doesn't make it unethical. Nobody is cheating or stealing. They are just not using their reservation as others deem proper. But as long as Disney approves of the procedure and provides the benefits, there is nothing unethical happening. (I wonder why the throwaway rooms at Universal or Atlantis don't stir up the same arguments of unethical parents teaching bad lessons to their kids? Very weird.)

 

[Luckybee]

It receives complete approval on the throwaway room thread, so they at least see it that way. And you can feel about it any way you choose, I believe it is unethical to pay for one night and get 10 days benefits in FP+ and dining reservations and magic bands for imaginary people so you can make extra same day fast passes.

I would not game the system like this because I choose to teach my children to be ethical. Go ahead and teach yours they don't have to be as long as they get something out of it

I would never teach my children to be unethical. But since we aren't talking about something that is unethical I would have no trbl teaching them how to book a hotel room and PAY FOR IT in order to get the benefits that are offered.
But imaginary people....sorry but I don't have any/know any. Again that isn't what a throwaway room is.
Obviously you don't seem to understand the concept....let me explain it to you clearly(although since it was called a "throwaway" I thought it was obvious.
One books, then pays for a room. One uses the benefits that they PAID for without actually sleeping in the room since one has other sleeping arrangements. Just like if one books a room to get the use of a pool, or a place to shower, or anything else.
Dh and I booked 5 nights at the Dolphin this past trip and added extra days to our offsite trip. We used Starwood points for our stay. We left to move over to our Marriott timeshare a day and a half earlier because quite frankly it was better accommodation. We didn't check out until our stay was over completely. We paid for that room with our points. We were still entitled to onsite benefits for the time we were registered and if you think that is unethical Im convinced you aren't living in the real world.
Now if the hotel tells me once you are not sleeping there then you don't have the benefits I'm all over it. That said I am absolutely confident that Disney will never say that one cant book a legitimate throwaway room or put another way....you must sleep in the room that you have booked and PAID for.
Now add extra magic bands for imaginary persons, or booking and cancelling to your hearts content but that isn't a throwaway room. That only seems to come up when those who want to make judgemental comments somehow try to justify silly positions by trying to turn throwaways into something they aren't.

 

[DisneyKingpin]

I'm not going to rely on the word of a lowly CM in a sales position.

I find this comment extremely offensive and I hope the moderators have the good sense to delete this post.

I would like to publicly say that I appreciate all the fantastic CM's out there who make our trips magical. They work long and hard and often for not much money. I'm embarrassed that someone would describe them as "lowly" or imply they can't be trusted at their word. I'm further embarrassed that someone would imply a sales position is somehow a bottom-feeder job. I appreciate every CM, whether they work in the executive offices or picking up our garbage on Main Street.

I have worked for Disney for 18 years. Though I'm not in the parks nor based in Orlando, you can consider me proud to be a "lowly" CM.

 

[nugov2]

It receives complete approval on the throwaway room thread, so they at least see it that way. And you can feel about it any way you choose, I believe it is unethical to pay for one night and get 10 days benefits in FP+ and dining reservations and magic bands for imaginary people so you can make extra same day fast passes.

I would not game the system like this because I choose to teach my children to be ethical. Go ahead and teach yours they don't have to be as long as they get something out of it

Oh, ok...gotcha, but actually I am not teaching my children anything because they don't even know. It isn't like I sat the kids down and said Mommy and Daddy are paying for a room at Disney and Universal so that we can get the onsite perks, but can still stay at our 6 bedroom house that you love. I know the respectful, caring and charitable children I am raising and am sure the fact that I am paying for a room, but not sleeping in will not put them on the path to destruction.

Honestly, if I'd had to pick a hypothetical scenario of something I do that my kids didn't know about but did somehow find out about I'd pick them knowing I purchased a throwaway room vs them knowing I was being a self righteous and judgemental person. As the saying goes: Don't judge others because they sin differently than you

 

[DisneyKingpin]

Oh, ok...gotcha, but actually I am not teaching my children anything because they don't even know. It isn't like I sat the kids down and said Mommy and Daddy are paying for a room at Disney and Universal so that we can get the onsite perks, but can still stay at our 6 bedroom house that you love. I know the respectful, caring and charitable children I am raising and am sure the fact that I am paying for a room, but not sleeping in will not put them on the path to destruction. Honestly, if I'd had to pick a hypothetical scenario of something I do that my kids didn't know about but did somehow find out about I'd pick them knowing I purchased a throwaway room vs them knowing I was being a self righteous and judgemental person. As the saying goes: Don't judge others because they sin differently than you

I loved this post. You nailed it.

I would add that I don't even consider this practice unethical since it doesn't violate any rules or restrictions.

Consider this: You can book a dining reservation, never show up (due to some other circumstance like having spontaneous fun elsewhere), pay the no-show fee, and continue on your merry way. Did you possibly prevent someone else from getting that reservation? Yes. Could someone else have really, really loved getting that reservation? Yes. Did you violate any rules? No. You paid the fee and fulfilled your contract.

Therefore, nobody is teaching their children anything unethical.

 

[robinb]

The "What about the children??!" argument is always a last ditch effort to make a point.

 

[nugov2]

I loved this post. You nailed it.

I would add that I don't even consider this practice unethical since it doesn't violate any rules or restrictions.

Consider this: You can book a dining reservation, never show up (due to some other circumstance like having spontaneous fun elsewhere), pay the no-show fee, and continue on your merry way. Did you possibly prevent someone else from getting that reservation? Yes. Could someone else have really, really loved getting that reservation? Yes. Did you violate any rules? No. You paid the fee and fulfilled your contract.

Therefore, nobody is teaching their children anything unethical.

Thank you

The "What about the children??!" argument is always a last ditch effort to make a point.

Nothing is more disgusting IMO than trying to shame people into believing what you do by saying you are somehow raising deviants b/c you are doing something they don't agree with. To me that sentiment is the worst thing I see discussed on the boards. To disagree with people is one thing...but seriously to say that is just

 

[famy27]

The "What about the children??!" argument is always a last ditch effort to make a point.

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them book FPs.

 

[nugov2]

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them book FPs.

 

[olwyngdh]

If the extra magic bands or the booking a room for free magic bands and then canceling the room were not part of the throwaway room bandwagon, then people on that thread would not be giving it approval and telling others how to do it, and the moderators would be deleting those posts. Since this is happening, it is all part of the same thing. By giving it approval and encouraging others to do it, even if you don't do it yourself, you are guilty by association. Stop the approval and encouragement for that, I may change my mind, until then, it is all part of the same package and one rotten apple will spoil the whole barrel.

 

[famy27]

If the extra magic bands or the booking a room for free magic bands and then canceling the room were not part of the throwaway room bandwagon, then people on that thread would not be giving it approval and telling others how to do it, and the moderators would be deleting those posts. Since this is happening, it is all part of the same thing. By giving it approval and encouraging others to do it, even if you don't do it yourself, you are guilty by association. Stop the approval and encouragement for that, I may change my mind, until then, it is all part of the same package and one rotten apple will spoil the whole barrel.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but the mods have specifically instructed people NOT to comment on the morality of either throwaway rooms or unlinked MBs on either thread on the TPAS board. Those are for information only. So, the only comments one is allowed to make are about how the procedure works. You cannot comment on whether you think it is right or wrong, so there is really no telling who approves of what.

Throwaway rooms have existed long before FP and MBs. They've been booked for EMH, ME, dining, etc. In Sept 2013, they were booked at POP (not FW) just to be able to have access to FP+, as POP was one of the first testing resorts. This was largely onsiters who booked these because they wanted to try FP and MBs. I never heard of anyone putting fake people on these, and lots of people even showed up in person to check in. The current throwaways seem to be largely booked for FP earlier access and MBs, but that doesn't mean that throwaways have anything to do with ordering extra MBs for fake people to make SDFPs. As an AP, I could have had extra MBs on my last three trips and used them all of SDFPs without booking any throwaway room at all.

A "throwaway room" is one that is booked and paid for but not slept in. That is different than booking and cancelling or adding extra invisible people to a reservation or trying to get extra days of parking or EMH above what Disney provides.

 

[robinb]

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but the mods have specifically instructed people NOT to comment on the morality of either throwaway rooms or unlinked MBs on either thread on the TPAS board. Those are for information only. So, the only comments one is allowed to make is about how the procedure works. You cannot comment on whether you think it is right or wrong, so there is really no telling who approves of what.

Very good point. In fact, the thread was closed earlier this week for "clean up" when someone took the link that olwyngdh herself posted here on the 17th and scolded people on that thread.

Throwaway rooms have existed long before FP and MBs. They've been booked for EMH, ME, dining, etc. In Sept 2013, they were booked at POP (not FW) just to be able to have access to FP+, as POP was one of the first testing resorts. This was largely onsiters who booked these because they wanted to try FP and MBs. I never heard of anyone putting fake people on these, and lots of people even showed up in person to check in. The current throwaways seem to be largely booked for FP earlier access and MBs, but that doesn't mean that throwaways have anything to do with ordering extra MBs for fake people to make SDFPs. As an AP, I could have had extra MBs on my last three trips and used them all of SDFPs without booking any throwaway room at all.

A "throwaway room" is one that is booked and paid for but not slept in. That is different than booking and cancelling or adding extra invisible people to a reservation or trying to get extra days of parking or EMH above what Disney provides.

I remember back when free dining first started (before the QSDP) DVCers would pay for a room in a value resort to get the dining plan since it was cheaper to buy the room at rack rate than to buy the dining plan on their DVC reservation.

 

[SmithSmith]

There's a distinct change in tone since I was last here. Which makes something very obvious. The reasons cited for allowing this practice have been:

1. It's there
2. It doesn't hurt anyone
3. Everyone else does it
4. It's been going on for a long time.
5. But it's just like when... (Insert bad analogy here)

Sound familiar? These are not reasons, but typical excuses people use to justify their behavior.

On a different note, I called Disney back. I had many lengthy conversations with many different people. Too lengthy, and too many to recite back, so here are the interesting bits:

1. Disney does not condone this practice.
2. They are trying to close the loophole.
3. All calls are recorded and monitored. Any CM promoting or allowing this practice would have been reprimanded or fired.
4. Guest need to physically stay in their rooms. This is a safety issue. Disney needs to know who is on property in event of emergency.
5. This is a growing concern. There have been a number of guest complaints that this practice done by others has had a negative impact on their visit.
6. Any guest doing online checkin only or canceling their reservation lose all perks, FP reservations will be cancelled.

At no time during my conversation did I ever get conflicting information.

So go ahead and dismiss it, I know you will. It's clear that people are only here to dismiss, not discuss.

So that brings me full circle to my original post:
"The word 'loophole' is synonymous with the words 'cheating' and 'evasion' for a reason."

It's fine if you are one who believes there's nothing unethical about exploiting loopholes. Go ahead and continue to do this. But don't make the argument that Disney allows this to happen, therefore it's not a loophole, therefore it's not unethical... because you can't.

That's all I have to say on the subject. I will not be discussing this further.