Suggestions for dealing with school

[tzolkin]

Uh good for you. Is there a competition as to who can break the most bones without complaining? Congrats you win. I would find it ridiculous if my child broke a bone and the nurse didn’t call me. She calls me when my child wanted to remove her earrings.

There's really no reason to be rude just because someone presented a different opinion.

You know that is not what I said or meant. I was merely stating that not every broken bone feels the same way (some are more painful than others), not that some people are stronger or complain less than others. It's entirely possible that the kid was acting completely normal and had no swelling or bruising. If he was in class and going about the rest of his day, how would the school have any idea that he had a broken bone?

 

[sam_gordon]

I wouldn’t sue but sounds like a plausible suit.

Well, you can sue about anything. Whether you should OR (more importantly) win is a different story.

IMO, before a lawsuit is even CONSIDERED, you (general) need to find out what happened, how did it present, what action was taken. Based on what the OP has posted, he didn't do any follow up immediately following, but wants to complain months later. Was the school negligent? Possibly. But it's more likely they didn't think it was broken.

I find it interesting that parents want to be CALLED if *ANYTHING* happens with their child. Get a paper cut? Phone Call. Fall on the playground and scrape your knees? Phone Call. Bloody Nose? Phone Call. Sorry, that's not me. You want to send a note home with the child so I know it happened, ok. But a phone call for a minor, routine issue? Nope.

 

[tzolkin]

I find it interesting that parents want to be CALLED if *ANYTHING* happens with their child. Get a paper cut? Phone Call. Fall on the playground and scrape your knees? Phone Call. Bloody Nose? Phone Call. Sorry, that's not me. You want to send a note home with the child so I know it happened, ok. But a phone call for a minor, routine issue? Nope.

This is how I feel too. It honestly feels a bit awkward when I get a call about something minor. If they felt it necessitated a call, does that mean they think I should come pick them up? Am I a bad mom if I don't and think it's no big deal?

When my kids were little (and attended a school where there was a nurse on staff), she would just send home a note with checkboxes and a space for comments if anything had happened (bloody nose, fell and got ice, cut and applied bandage, etc). My son is now in 10th grade and I have received a few phone calls from the high school (no nurse so it's either the receptionist or the guidance counselor calling). It's a bit of a back and forth about why they are calling and me trying to figure out if they are expecting/wanting me to pick him up. Then I just ask to talk to him, he says he's fine, and then I just say, "well let me know if there's any issue or if you need me to come get you later."

 

[Donald13]

Kids break bones all of the time that at first go unnoticed. They’re bones are softer, breaks are less painful, swelling and bruising takes a bit.

I do not understand this argument. They broke a bone. Not a nail. Why is this being dismissed as a it’s just a bone? I have 2 kids and one broke her finger once. We took her to urgent care to get it treated.

 

[Donald13]

There's really no reason to be rude just because someone presented a different opinion.

You know that is not what I said or meant. I was merely stating that not every broken bone feels the same way (some are more painful than others), not that some people are stronger or complain less than others. It's entirely possible that the kid was acting completely normal and had no swelling or bruising. If he was in class and going about the rest of his day, how would the school have any idea that he had a broken bone?

But we will never know, will we? I stand by my comment. Have a good day

 

[mjkacmom]

I do not understand this argument. They broke a bone. Not a nail. Why is this being dismissed as a it’s just a bone? I have 2 kids and one broke her finger once. We took her to urgent care to get it treated.

My point is that kids break bones and it’s not always obvious. I broke my pinky as an adult, I didn’t think it was broken at first, but it was still hurting around day 5, and was no longer straight (still isn’t), so I got an X-ray, and sure enough, it was broken.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I work at an elementary school. There usually seems to be a steady flow of sick or injured kids in and out of the office.
Every student presents differently. One could have a fractured wrist and downplay it because they're anxious to get back to the playground. Others barely get bumped and they're convinced it's serious. The two secretaries have to use their training and discretion to determine the best course of action for each student. They can contact the district nurses if they need advice or assistance. They always have the option to call parents or 911, if necessary. They do their best, but some situations may not be resolved to the parents' satisfaction.

If a parent has specific instructions regarding their child's health issues at school, they should compose an email to the principal. Put the desired protocol in writing. The principal will share it with the office staff. Our office has a binder of health concerns and protocols for specific students. Each time a student comes in, the staff checks the binder to see if there are any specific instructions for that student. The email would likely be printed and put into the binder. If the child came in with a nosebleed again, the staff would see that the parent wants to be notified.

It should be a fairly simple process to let the school know how you want your child's health issues to be handled. Just put it in a simple, straightforward email to open a discussion with the principal.

 

[2China2009]

Our grade school we parents got called for anything. We did not always have a nurse but our health aide was amazing. As far as a bloody nose goes Out would want to be notified. Anything unusual I want a call. My child would be hysterical and if I felt they needed me I would go get them. Now that they are in HS they can text me and I call them out.

 

[Moliphino]

I do not understand this argument. They broke a bone. Not a nail. Why is this being dismissed as a it’s just a bone? I have 2 kids and one broke her finger once. We took her to urgent care to get it treated.

It's not being dismissed as just a bone. The point is that broken bones are not always obvious and the school nurse and aftercare people may not have even realized it was broken or a major issue.

 

[tzolkin]

But we will never know, will we? I stand by my comment.

You really think the teachers/nurse knew the child had a broken arm and purposely chose to not say anything to the parents? That seems like a more likely scenario to you than perhaps the kid was just acting like he was fine and not complaining much so they thought he was okay?

I don't think even the OP believes that to be the case. He fully acknowledged that he has a tendency to blow up in anger and to "lose all tact and decorum". I'm fairly certain that if he really thought the nurse purposely ignored his kid's broken arm, he wouldn't have waited several months and is now considering now writing an email-- he would have gone into the school the next day and yelled at them.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The nurse’s job is not to necessarily determine if a bone is broken. That is not always obvious unless there is a deformity of some kind. Sometimes the best we have is pain and maybe swelling (which, as a pp mentioned, can take a while to occur). It is the nurse’s job, when a child comes to them with complaints of pain and swelling, to assess not only the injury, but how it happened, and other circumstances relating to the child’s health and well-being, etc. (Could they be the type of child who is in the office daily with some sort of complaint but maybe is just lonely or anxious, I saw such children as a camp nurse.) Once there is an assessment of a potential problem, the parent is notified of the circumstances and makes a determination of what to do at that point, with a probable recommendation of need for further evaluation at a hospital or clinic, etc. The latter did not occur here for some reason but we aren’t sure why. That is where the discussions need to focus, IMO. The OP did not give further explanation of the circumstances so we are all just speculating. (It is a good discussion, though! I think it’s already been determined through CDC-related documents that nosebleeds mainly require notification when they last longer than a certain time frame or become frequent.)

From the OP:

I need help figuring out the best way to speak to the administration of my kids' school. Today for the second time in the last few weeks my older son was sent to the nurse for a nosebleed. The first one was somewhat of an issue because he ended up with quite a bit of blood on his shirt that they made him change it. Today's wasn't as bad and stopped almost immediately after he got to the nurse. Am I out of line for thinking that they should have contacted us to let us know that happened? Compounding the issue is that about two months ago my younger son broke his arm at school before lunch and they never contacted us about it. We knew nothing until we picked him up from latchkey and he was crying his arm hurt so much. How do I tactfully suggest to the principal and district administration that maybe they should be contacting the parents in these situations? The only time I've heard anything from them was when my older son got so overheated in gym he threw up. And that was only because I had to go pick him up.

I am also giving the OP credit for asking this question here because he was looking to be tactful. He’s under no obligation to tell us more, but it is maybe a conversation he should have with the nurse and other school personnel. There could be many reasons why there was a communication breakdown. Honestly, covering three schools seems like a lot and maybe that‘s something that needs to be looked at. Perhaps something good will come out of this for the school community if it becomes clear that more help is needed or policies need to change, etc.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

A nosebleed is one thing but a broken arm???? No need to tiptoe around that. Threaten them with legal action. How on earth did they not know?

Easy. Breaks aren’t always obvious.

DD hurt her finger at school. She told me after school, she could move it and it wasn’t swollen. 4 hours later it swelled to the point where I thought she should be seen. There was no indication prior to that, that it was anything serious.

 

[Sinder]

I do not understand this argument. They broke a bone. Not a nail. Why is this being dismissed as a it’s just a bone? I have 2 kids and one broke her finger once. We took her to urgent care to get it treated.

Not one single person dismissed it as it just being a bone.
These links may help you understand why some posters have explained that the nurse may not have known it was broken.

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-qu...tments/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-broken-a-bone/

https://healthcare.utah.edu/the-scope/shows.php?shows=0_lz6jgzgs

https://coastaluc.com/health-blog/how-to-tell-if-you-broke-a-bone-6-signs-you-shouldnt-ignore/

Once again, not all breaks are obvious.

 

[monsterkitty]

A nosebleed is one thing but a broken arm???? No need to tiptoe around that. Threaten them with legal action. How on earth did they not know?

Same for me. I can’t imagine one of them breaking a bone and not getting a call right away

Uh good for you. Is there a competition as to who can break the most bones without complaining? Congrats you win. I would find it ridiculous if my child broke a bone and the nurse didn’t call me. She calls me when my child wanted to remove her earrings.

As others have said, often times breaks are not obvious. Many times a break isn't even suspected by Urgent Care or a doctor, but then x-rays show a break.

My first chair violin player hurt her wrist playing hockey. Her mom took her for x-rays the next day just to be safe. The doctor on call did not see a break. Two days later, mom walks into my room and tells her daughter to grab her stuff because the radiologist saw a break that the doctor did not. Of course this was a few days before a concert and she had a huge solo, but id digress...

My point is that the child may not have been in a lot of pain with the broken arm and the break wasn't obvious. As the day went on, the arm began to swell and the pain began. How many of us broke a bone as a child and our parents waited a bit to have us seen? I walked on a broken fibula for a few weeks before my mom decided I should be seen. Threatening legal action is not the way to go in all cases.

 

[sam_gordon]

I do not understand this argument. They broke a bone. Not a nail. Why is this being dismissed as a it’s just a bone? I have 2 kids and one broke her finger once. We took her to urgent care to get it treated.

As has been pointed out, no one is saying "it's just a bone". What needs to be asked is what clues did the nurse have that the bone MIGHT have been broken?
Because the kid fell? Nope, that's not enough.
Because he said "my arm hurts"? OK, getting closer, but still not enough
There was swelling? Getting even closer, but we don't know if that's the case.

I don't think anyone's saying broken bones shouldn't be treated. But you need to at least SUSPECT the bone is broken before you go get X-rays, don't you?

 

[tzolkin]

These links may help you understand why some posters have explained that the nurse may not have known it was broken.

Not only that, but the OP mentioned there is one nurse for three schools and never clearly stated whether the nurse even saw the child on the day of the incident. If it's not always obvious to doctors and nurses who specialize in orthopedics whether a bone is broken, so it's certainly understandable that a teacher or office staff member would not have known there was a fracture if the child was acting fine.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I was remembering back to the time my son broke a bone in his foot when he was little. He had fallen on carpeted stairs while playing. He initially complained of pain but shortly afterward was up and running around as usual and never said anything more about it, so I thought we were good. Until several days later when I was trying to put his shoe on and his foot was so swollen it wouldn’t go on. Off we went to Urgent Care for an XRay where it was determined he had a broken bone. I remember being in the room with the orthopedic surgeon and getting teary, feeling awful that I’d missed it. This guy was very reassuring, though, saying that it happens all the time and that I shouldn’t feel bad about it. Even he acknowledged that if we took our kids to the doctor’s for every little thing that happens, we’d potentially be there every day! This, of course, is different than dealing with something like this in a professional capacity, but I just thought I’d throw it into the conversation.

The other thing I’ve been thinking about (and yes, I know it’s very different, but in my way of thinking, also similar) is how often I wound up at the veterinarian’s office with an athletic German Shepherd (who was an agility and frisbee dog). Limping and hobbling was a frequent occurrence (but he loved it and it helped use up all the excess energy he had, so we had to learn to live with it). Thankfully my vet was mostly conservative medically and didn’t rush into XRays and scans and all that right away; instead he often recommended rest. Never once did the dog break anything; always more a strain. After a while I learned to just give it rest while eliminating the middle man (and bills) unless it seemed more serious. But regardless, we certainly spent a lot of money on evaluations over his lifetime.

I always had a lot of things swirling around in my head based on the many experiences I had in both medicine and recreation, as we all do, I”m sure.

This goes off to a larger conversation but it’s also a pretty well known fact that many people can’t afford to go to see a doctor all the time, for every little thing. Likely not the case for the OP, but we also shouldn’t ignore that this can be an issue for people, as some here alluded to already. Parents make these decisions daily. I had a friend that called 911 more times than one would believe, seems the ambulance was always at their house for their child. Others don’t go when maybe they should. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle. But I don’t think there are always cut and dry answers when things aren’t always completely obvious - speaking generally. I even remember having a conversation with our pediatrician about this sort of thing and her agreeing, that as a parent herself, she was in the same boat with making determinations about whether to seek care and bill payment, etc.

 

[sam_gordon]

I am also giving the OP credit for asking this question here because he was looking to be tactful. He’s under no obligation to tell us more, but it is maybe a conversation he should have with the nurse and other school personnel. There could be many reasons why there was a communication breakdown. Honestly, covering three schools seems like a lot and maybe that‘s something that needs to be looked at. Perhaps something good will come out of this for the school community if it becomes clear that more help is needed or policies need to change, etc.

My issue, is sure, while he says he wants to be "tactful", he wants to tell them they've done something wrong when (based on what he's posted) he doesn't know if that's the case. Is it worth a conversation to find out what happened and what the decision process was? Sure. But why did he wait two months to do that?

Nurses covering multiple schools does not surprise me. Is it ideal? I don't think anyone who works in a school would argue that it is. I'm sure everyone would agree having a nurse in every school would be wonderful, but where's that money come from? At least, I'm assuming it's a budget issue. Everyone keeps saying "schools should do this" and "schools should do that", but what do you think people would do if their property taxes are raised to pay for those things?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

My issue, is sure, while he says he wants to be "tactful", he wants to tell them they've done something wrong when (based on what he's posted) he doesn't know if that's the case. Is it worth a conversation to find out what happened and what the decision process was? Sure. But why did he wait two months to do that?

Nurses covering multiple schools does not surprise me. Is it ideal? I don't think anyone who works in a school would argue that it is. I'm sure everyone would agree having a nurse in every school would be wonderful, but where's that money come from? At least, I'm assuming it's a budget issue. Everyone keeps saying "schools should do this" and "schools should do that", but what do you think people would do if their property taxes are raised to pay for those things?

I can understand his feeling upset about it. All of us would likely question it if this came up with our own kids, I’d think! And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with questioning it, either. Sometimes complaints reveal problems in the system, or personnel problems, etc. A lot of things could come up. Maybe the nurse would actually appreciate this coming up if they’ve been making complaints there isn’t enough help (as is the case in many areas of healthcare right now). I think it will be very interesting to hear what actually happened. Not sure we actually will, but it gives lots of us food for thought, doesn’t it? It sounded like the OP would’ve probably let this go were it not for the questions about the nosebleeds.

My daughter is in a graduate nursing program that encompasses school nursing. The notion that a school nurse is there just to slap a bandaid on someone is quite short-sighted. There is an awful lot that goes on behind the scenes that I’m pretty certain most aren’t aware of, which is why it struck me as odd that someone would go straight to the principal instead of talking to the nurse first. There are education requirements for school nurses and many go beyond that, which is how my DD wound up in graduate school - school nurses in our district almost all have at least Master’s degrees; some even have doctorates. It’s ok to ask questions and take a peek behind the scenes of what goes on. It’s probably a world that few of us really have much insight into. I know that today’s school nurses spend a lot of their day today dealing with not only emergencies, but children with chronic health issues, and administrative things like mandated quality measures, [cumbersome] strict electronic documentation and keeping up with medical records, etc. Since Covid, it sounds like their world has also spiraled out of control, to be honest. As a matter of fact, DD got a call yesterday from the director of nursing for our school district asking her if she was ‘still interested in subbing’, which was really weird because she never actually applied, this was just from word of mouth that she was interested. That tells me they are pretty desperate for help cold-calling people who haven’t even applied for the job yet! Many young nurses have left their jobs to go do travel nursing, which is quite alluring at this time due to the pandemic, and others just say they’ve had enough, leaving many areas short. A few pages back I posted an article about how some districts have gone to electronic communication-only with their nurses because of the increase in verbal abuse they were getting from angry parents. So many people are on edge.

This isn’t all directed at you, Sam. I just went off on a bit of a tangent. But if I can help give insight into what nurses do, I like to try.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I need help figuring out the best way to speak to the administration of my kids' school. Today for the second time in the last few weeks my older son was sent to the nurse for a nosebleed. The first one was somewhat of an issue because he ended up with quite a bit of blood on his shirt that they made him change it. Today's wasn't as bad and stopped almost immediately after he got to the nurse. Am I out of line for thinking that they should have contacted us to let us know that happened? Compounding the issue is that about two months ago my younger son broke his arm at school before lunch and they never contacted us about it. We knew nothing until we picked him up from latchkey and he was crying his arm hurt so much. How do I tactfully suggest to the principal and district administration that maybe they should be contacting the parents in these situations? The only time I've heard anything from them was when my older son got so overheated in gym he threw up. And that was only because I had to go pick him up.

I wouldn't expect to be contacted immediately for something minor like a nosebleed unless they start occurring frequently. Maybe a note sent home that the kid had seen the nurse. Now if a kid punched him, I'd expect to be told. A broken arm I would expect a bit more. But not all broken arms present themselves obviously. I'd need far more info to make a determination there.

I don't think bloody noses would require a call to parents (unless it was a result of a fight). The broken arm, yes, they should have called. BUT, was it obvious the arm was broken? I'm not sure what "latchkey" is, but if it's another organization (ie: not at the school) and he was there for 2 1/2 hours and no one suspected it was broken, maybe it wasn't obvious? Just saying "my arm hurts" isn't enough of a clue.

Since this is really only one incident (the broken arm... I don't think the bloody noses count), I would give them the benefit of the doubt and they didn't know the arm was broken. Now sure, maybe get in touch with the nurse/administrator and find out what happened with the arm... did he fall? What care did they give him? What did they think the diagnosis was? But does it need to be done in an "attacking" mode? I don't think so. Why did you not reach out to the school the day after the broken arm to find out what happened? You're going to wait two months and then complain?

Latchkey kids is a nick name given to my generation who was the first generation where duel incomes were a necessity. Hence when we were old enough we got a latchkey to the door and parents weren't at home until they got off work.