State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[Heather07438]

I don't think they'd intentionally let the summer experience become miserable so they could sell a future FP system because that could affect 50th bookings. Guests can still cancel and reschedule.

Something gives me the feeling we'll find out which direction FP is going during the last week of July. Hope so at least.

 

[Launchpad_Mcquack]

That is such a bad argument. Walt lived half a decade ago, when everything in the US was hunky dory. He hasn't seen how the world changed.

It is naive to think that Walt would have stayed exactly the same. He never had to talk about money because he had his brother for that. He could be talking sunshine and rainbows as much as he wanted because of that. I think we can say with more certainty that Walt would have adapted with the times. I think if Walt knew how much money people are willing to spend on his products he would use that knowledge to his advantage. Like he did with Club 33.

It's not a bad argument, it's just someone's take on how Walt would react based on their interpretation. You also make a valid point in that the world is completely different now so none of us really know how Walt would have adapted the parks.

Instead of trying to parse the nuance of their decisions, we can compare the four men. Eisner, Eiger, Chapek, and Walt. For my money it is pretty obvious Walt was on another level and things would have been much different. Those other three are company men, shareholder men, suit and tie till the day they die. Walt was always hanging around Imagineering and tinkering with his railroad, he literally was making decisions on types of flowers and sidewalks... these other three guys, I doubt they even own a pair of work boots and trousers.

We will never know but it's fun to speculate.

 

[AMartin767]

I'm not sure I understand this line of thinking that by having to que for a standby time, guests will automatically go to the shops/resteraunts/etc. Same with the argument I've heard for parades. "By having a parade, it takes guests away from shops". It seems theoretically plausible but I have "x" number of dollars available to me for trinkets and food. I may spend all of it on day 1 or day 7. Or, spread it out over all days. But I don't have "x" + "y" + "z" to spend. Yeah I might fudge the number slightly but the amount is the amount. Why would anyone think that if I'm not standing in line for a ride or waiting for a parade, I would automatically go spend money I don't have on Main Street? Maybe this is just a me thing and others have unlimited funds to spend. Also, even if I did have the money, aren't you just shifting your crowd problem from the line to the store? It's not like those stores don't have capacity limits as well.

It isn't about having unlimited money to spend, it's about where you're spending it and what you're spending it on in a given amount of time. Far more profit is made by Disney on Food and Merchandise than by the ticket that gets you in the door. That ticket is arguably the amount you have paid to access the attractions and the ambiance (as everything else is an upcharge essentially). By putting you in a situation where you essentially have less access to the attractions (unless you pay the $$ for the upgraded fastpass so Disney makes revenue on top of the ticket you already purchased) your time is now more likely spent on those residual things that make the most profit. I don't think Disney is EVER concerned with capacity issues in their stores (save for Covid protocols). One evening in the Emporium at park close I think bears this out.

Now, if you literally are not going to spend any money on those additional things during that off-attraction time because you are either unwilling or unable, then I suppose you can spend the time wandering the park or sitting on benches while not getting access to the attractions you paid for with your entrance ticket.

 

[PrincessV]

I only read the first few and last few pages here (because it's a LOT of pages lol!), so apologies if this has already been noted...

I was in WDW 7/1-7 and noticed that permanent FastPass signage was removed from multiple attractions at some point, replaced by temporary sandwich boards saying "ALTERNATIVE ACCESS ENTRANCE". I didn't notice it until EP 7/6, so I really don't know when this happened; I wasn't paying attention until I happened to see it at LWTL. Here's an example at Soarin'. At the time, it felt like some new system was imminent, but maybe it was just early preparation and eliminating any mention of FP ahead of whatever's coming.

 

[vincep]

Yes we will see. I hope some of you less disillusioned than I are truly right. I made a Poly reservation a year ago for this October and was so frustrated by what I was seeing decided to make it for Oct 22. Rides breaking down, overcrowded reduced transportation, reduced menus for the same prices, cleanliness not being kept up, a Boo Bash of three hours(which to me is like 15 minutes) and dear lord cast members being abused...This is not what I want to experience. Walt would have been furious. Heads would have rolled. Hopefully those of Chapek and Iger.
Anyway I have now moved my reservation to fall of '22 and will see what things are like and how guests respond at that point. If all I have left are my memories so be it. They are quite wonderful.

 

[Wakey]

It's not a bad argument, it's just someone's take on how Walt would react based on their interpretation. You also make a valid point in that the world is completely different now so none of us really know how Walt would have adapted the parks.

Instead of trying to parse the nuance of their decisions, we can compare the four men. Eisner, Eiger, Chapek, and Walt. For my money it is pretty obvious Walt was on another level and things would have been much different. Those other three are company men, shareholder men, suit and tie till the day they die. Walt was always hanging around Imagineering and tinkering with his railroad, he literally was making decisions on types of flowers and sidewalks... these other three guys, I doubt they even own a pair of work boots and trousers.

We will never know but it's fun to speculate.

In fairness Eisner was a very creative individual. Whilst he is certainly a corporate man, I think his desire to make some great things (for example, employing the right architects for hotels) was spot on. Compare that to what has happened recently.

 

[Dural]

I think people aren’t being honest with themselves if they are going to Disney right now expecting an exceptional experience. They shut completely down and furloughing most of their staff. Things can not come back with a snap of a finger.

If you are willing to fork out normal prices for a limited experience you have to have limited expectations. It’s not Disney’s fault that there is this pent up demand of people wanting to vacation there. They are doing what they can within their means and everything will only improve moving forward as long as there isn’t another shutdown.
If you want the real Disney experience hold off on your trip for a year or two. If you can’t hold out the expectations needed to be realistic.

Snap of a finger? They've been reopened for over a year! At this point I honestly don't think it's a matter of not being able to hire enough people, it's more that they don't want to. Not having the staff is completely on them and shouldn't be excused.

 

[AMartin767]

BTW - I am tired of hearing how "You can't bring Walt into it cause times have changed", That's nonsense. Walt Disney had basic, principled, solid ideas upon which he based his decision making for the company, including the parks. To suggest that he would have thrown these ideals out the window, simply because of extended time and changes in business practices, is disingenuous at best and absurd at the very most. Most of the principles he held to are timeless and just as applicable today as in previous times when applied to the way to run a successful business. We all want to act like the company he built is somehow completely out of step with it's founding? So, are we saying the Disney Company, as it was founded, no longer exists? All those ideals that Disney built the company on are gone? If that's the case, then we have truly arrived at a very sad point in the company's history indeed.

Do people overuse the "What would Walt Do?" argument? Yes, sometimes but the automatic naysaying when his name and/or ideals are used to describe a leadership style for the Disney Company is just not reasonable. Sometimes, using those principles is a perfectly plausible use as point of comparison, imho.

 

[lukemorenus]

I just spoke with Walt's frozen head - he's cool with all of it

 

[B1GxFOOT]

Snap of a finger? They've been reopened for over a year! At this point I honestly don't think it's a matter of not being able to hire enough people, it's more that they don't want to. Not having the staff is completely on them and shouldn't be excused.

I can tell you firsthand that hiring people right now, no matter the industry, is challenging. I don't think people who are not directly involved in that process fully comprehend how difficult it is right now.

 

[Karin1984]

Instead of trying to parse the nuance of their decisions, we can compare the four men. Eisner, Eiger, Chapek, and Walt. For my money it is pretty obvious Walt was on another level and things would have been much different. Those other three are company men, shareholder men, suit and tie till the day they die. Walt was always hanging around Imagineering and tinkering with his railroad, he literally was making decisions on types of flowers and sidewalks... these other three guys, I doubt they even own a pair of work boots and trousers.

In my opinion these men were there to replace Roy. Not Walt. Walt could go hang out with the creative people and be fun Walt Disney to the outside world, because Roy was there.
If Roy had passed away first, would Disney have survived the way Walt wanted to?

 

[monstermash23]

BTW - I am tired of hearing how "You can't bring Walt into it cause times have changed", That's nonsense. Walt Disney had basic, principled, solid ideas upon which he based his decision making for the company, including the parks. To suggest that he would have thrown these ideals out the window, simply because of extended time and changes in business practices, is disingenuous at best and absurd at the very most. Most of the principles he held to are timeless and just as applicable today as in previous times when applied to the way to run a successful business. We all want to act like the company he built is somehow completely out of step with it's founding? So, are we saying the Disney Company, as it was founded, no longer exists? All those ideals that Disney built the company on are gone? If that's the case, then we have truly arrived at a very sad point in the company's history indeed.

Do people overuse the "What would Walt Do?" argument? Yes, sometimes but the automatic naysaying when his name and/or ideals are used to describe a leadership style for the Disney Company is just not reasonable. Sometimes, using those principles is a perfectly plausible use as point of comparison, imho.

Couldn’t agree more with this.

Walt to me, now, is a foundation of principles that should be guiding Disney. It should act as their constitution but it also should not limit their actions (which you eloquently refered to as the “what would walt do” question). Love this take.

 

[Dural]

I can tell you firsthand that hiring people right now, no matter the industry, is challenging. I don't think people who are not directly involved in that process fully comprehend how difficult it is right now.

Again, they've had over a year. I don't care how difficult it is to get staff right now, they should have added all the staff months ago.

 

[B1GxFOOT]

Again, they've had over a year. I don't care how difficult it is to get staff right now, they should have added all the staff months ago.

I probably wasn't clear enough. It's difficult now and has been for a while. Months ago, Disney didn't know when they would be able to ramp up capacity/services and at what speed it would be viable. Even now, there's a looming threat that restrictions may have to be put back at some point. If masks come back, I reschedule. I'm probably not alone. How much staff do you need now? Do they just turn around an lay off all these people again? I know that can happen but you try to avoid it if possible. It's much more complicated than just put a help wanted sign out and start accepting the wave of applicants.

 

[Karin1984]

Couldn’t agree more with this.

Walt to me, now, is a foundation of principles that should be guiding Disney. It should act as their constitution but it also should not limit their actions (which you eloquently refered to as the “what would walt do” question). Love this take.

I think that's where the clash is in the discussion. Walt, the person, versus Walt, the myth or personification of a concept, as it became to be over the last few decades.

 

[cakebaker]

I don't think they'd intentionally let the summer experience become miserable so they could sell a future FP system because that could affect 50th bookings. Guests can still cancel and reschedule.

Something gives me the feeling we'll find out which direction FP is going during the last week of July. Hope so at least.

For packages, penalties apply at the 30 day mark, so while you can cancel and reschedule, it would cost money to do so. And if you don't have a package, you do have tickets tied up. Without knowing when or if you are going to return, that's even more money. That said, I knew the chance I was taking when I booked, just made the mistake of believing they wouldn't allow guests to have to suffer through the summer with long lines and crowded parks. My mistake entirely.

I absolutely believe that they are intentionally not bringing FP+ back before they introduce a new system because they can bring it back and they are choosing not to. Why they're doing it really doesn't matter to me all that much. But, by the end of July, crowds will begin to go down. The immediate need will go down, at least until the 50th begins and even then, I imagine any huge crowds would be just for the very start of it since it's a very long celebration.

If they don't make some announcement very soon, I don't expect to see any system actually available to book until October.

 

[cakebaker]

I think people aren’t being honest with themselves if they are going to Disney right now expecting an exceptional experience.

I did not expect an exceptional experience. I was fully aware and expecting not to see any shows, parades, After Hours, Dessert Buffets, character meets or real character meals. What I did expect is that Disney would not increase crowd levels to the point of being packed without doing something about crowd control. I don't think that's asking for an exceptional experience.

They've had over a year to get it together, so while I didn't expect it, they really should be having shows and character meals and meet n greets at the very least. Still, I accepted willingly that they would not.

 

[kc51570]

Again, they've had over a year. I don't care how difficult it is to get staff right now, they should have added all the staff months ago.

Or if they don’t have the staff, they shouldn’t be ramping up capacity every other week. I don‘t think not having FP has anything to do with their staffing shortage. They already have people at the queues.
Staffing shortages definitely have an impact on restaurants both quick service and table service and housekeeping which was evident last week.

 

[cakebaker]

Looks like FOP has finally hit the 3 hr mark today. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any higher. Does Disney ever close lines due to excessive waits?

 

[Br'er Rabbit is the Best]

Looks like FOP has finally hit the 3 hr mark today. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any higher. Does Disney ever close lines due to excessive waits?

It hit 210 minutes earlier this morning. But don’t worry, Disney is opening up Port Orleans and the All Stars and renovations at the contemporary will be winding down. That’s only another 50,000 guests coming in. And Disney has announced that all shows, parades, and meet and greets are coming back to even out the crowds…wait.