Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[TheMaxRebo]

Plus, think of the stuffies they could make... The toys! A little steamboat with the figures! Toy trumpets! Frog Prince books! The merchandise sells itself honestly. A good way to boost her merch sales for a relatively underappreciated princess.

Not to mention all new Pop Figures and stuff like that

"I survived the Other Side" t-shirts, etc

 

[JacknSally]

Plus, think of the stuffies they could make... The toys! A little steamboat with the figures! Toy trumpets! Frog Prince books! The merchandise sells itself honestly. A good way to boost her merch sales for a relatively underappreciated princess.

Well I never realized it before but I absolutely need a Louis stuffy.

 

[mousemoose]

When something that is racially insensitive and offensive is tweaked slightly and “turned to good” - the underlying offense still exists within the community. Simply because you may not find the current iteration offensive because you may not understand the reasons or ways that it may be offensive to others, does not make it any less offensive.

Its not offensive to me.

 

[mousemoose]

Does anybody else remember this?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...s-removed-park-fatal-attack-article-1.2694427

 

[Catullus]

You're going with the Columbus factor though.

Bre'r Rabbit existed long before white guy Joel Chandler Harris "discovered" Br'er Rabbit.

No, sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. I'm just saying that if you're concerned about preserving the West African folk tales, you might want to understand that Brer Rabbit is not a West African folktale character. You have seemed very concerned that if they retheme Splash Mountain, people will lose their connection to the West African folktales of Brer Rabbit, but I was trying to explain to you that the Brer Rabbit stories, while they share some characteristics with West African folktales, are American. You seem very concerned with preserving West African culture, so I am a little confused that you seem to think Brer Rabbit is a figure from that culture.

 

[always]

Its not offensive to me.

Can you go troll somewhere else as well? Thanks!

 

[JacknSally]

Does anybody else remember this?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...s-removed-park-fatal-attack-article-1.2694427

Yes, I remember this.

 

[mousemoose]

Can you go troll somewhere else as well? Thanks!

I'm stating my opinion. I'm not name-calling. Calling someone a troll just because they have a different viewpoint from you is a very mean thing. I have feelings too. I'm a real person.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Its not offensive to me.

but this change isn't being made for you

 

[WorldOfPooh]

No, sorry, maybe I wasn't being clear. I'm just saying that if you're concerned about preserving the West African folk tales, you might want to understand that Brer Rabbit is not a West African folktale character. You have seemed very concerned that if they retheme Splash Mountain, people will lose their connection to the West African folktales of Brer Rabbit, but I was trying to explain to you that the Brer Rabbit stories, while they share some characteristics with West African folktales, are American. You seem very concerned with preserving West African culture, so I am a little confused that you seem to think Brer Rabbit is a figure from that culture.

Except the Bre'r Rabbit stories are West African. The only thing white guy Joel Chandler Harris really added was the minstrel Uncle Remus character. " Uncle Remus is a kindly old freedman who serves as a story-telling device, passing on the folktales like the traditional African griot to children gathered around him. "



"
African origins[edit]
The Br'er Rabbit stories can be traced back to trickster figures in Africa, particularly the hare that figures prominently in the storytelling traditions in West, Central, and Southern Africa. These tales continue to be part of the traditional folklore of numerous peoples throughout those regions. In the Akan traditions of West Africa, the trickster is usually the spider Anansi, though the plots in his tales are often identical with those of stories of Br'er Rabbit.[4] However, Anansi does encounter a tricky rabbit called "Adanko" (Asante-Twi to mean "Hare") in some stories. The Jamaican character with the same name "Brer Rabbit", is an adaptation of the Ananse stories of the Akan people.[5]

The African savanna hare (Lepus microtis) found all over sub-Saharan Africa: the original Br'er Rabbit.
Some scholars have suggested that in his American incarnation, Br'er Rabbit represented the enslaved Africans who used their wits to overcome adversity and to exact revenge on their adversaries, the white slave owners.[6] Though not always successful, the efforts of Br'er Rabbit made him a folk hero. However, the trickster is a multidimensional character. While he can be a hero, his amoral nature and his lack of any positive restraint can make him into a villain as well.[7]
For both Africans and African Americans, the animal trickster represents an extreme form of behavior that people may be forced to adopt in extreme circumstances in order to survive. The trickster is not to be admired in every situation. He is an example of what to do, but also an example of what not to do. The trickster's behavior can be summed up in the common African proverb: "It's trouble that makes the monkey chew on hot peppers." In other words, sometimes people must use extreme measures in extreme circumstances.[8] Several elements in the Brer Rabbit Tar Baby story (e.g., rabbit needing to be taught a lesson, punching and head butting the rabbit, the stuck rabbit being swung around and around) are reminiscent of those found in a Zimbabwe-Botswana folktale.[9]
Folklorists in the late 19th century first documented evidence that the American versions of the stories originated among enslaved West Africans based on connections between Br'er Rabbit and Leuk, a rabbit trickster in Senegalese folklore.[7][10] The stories of Br'er Rabbit were written down by Robert Roosevelt, an uncle of US President Theodore Roosevelt. Theodore Roosevelt wrote in his autobiography about his aunt from the State of Georgia, that "She knew all the 'Br'er Rabbit' stories, and I was brought up on them. One of my uncles, Robert Roosevelt, was much struck with them, and took them down from her dictation, publishing them in Harper's, where they fell flat. This was a good many years before a genius arose who, in 'Uncle Remus', made the stories immortal."

Eatonton, Georgia's statue of Br'er Rabbit
These stories were popularized for the mainstream audience in the late 19th century by Joel Chandler Harris (1845–1908), who wrote down and published many such stories that had been passed down by oral tradition. Harris also attributed the birth name Riley to Br'er Rabbit. Harris heard these tales in Georgia. Very similar versions of the same stories were recorded independently at the same time by the folklorist Alcée Fortier in southern Louisiana, where the Rabbit character was known as Compair Lapin in Creole. Enid Blyton, the English writer of children's fiction, retold the stories for children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br'er_Rabbit"

 

[Moliphino]

I think it just gives them more creative freedom to not have to follow the story exactly. Plus the main characters spend a lot of the film as frogs and this lets them show off more of the characters as humans

Yes, one of the biggest criticisms I've heard about the movie is that they finally made a black princess only to have her be a frog for most of the movie. Having her be human for the ride is an improvement.

 

[Catullus]

Except the Bre'r Rabbit stories are West African. The only thing white guy Joel Chandler Harris really added was the minstrel Uncle Remus character.

Well, like the Wikipedia article you posted says, the Brer Rabbit character is not actually a West African character, it is a New World character that shares some features with Anansi, the trickster god. I do think this wikipedia article overstates the similarities between the two characters, though--like I said in my original post, things like the tar baby definitely share plot elements with an Anansi story, but they are not exactly the same stories with different characters. If you're interested in the Anansi stories, they are preserved and printed in other sources other than The Tales of Uncle Remus, so you can go read them. But your confusion here is, I think, good evidence that Splash Mountain is not the best way to address your concern about preserving these folktales.

 

[mousemoose]

but this change isn't being made for you

You're right. My opinion, while just as equal and legitimate to all other opinions out there, apparently doesn't count.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I could say so many things but I don't want Ryan to hate me. I hope this thread closes soon, because it's just going in circles now.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

Well, like the Wikipedia article you posted says, the Brer Rabbit character is not actually a West African character, it is a New World character that shares some features with Anansi, the trickster god. I do think this wikipedia article overstates the similarities between the two characters, though--like I said in my original post, things like the tar baby definitely share plot elements with an Anansi story, but they are not exactly the same stories with different characters. If you're interested in the Anansi stories, they are preserved and printed in other sources other than The Tales of Uncle Remus, so you can go read them. But your confusion here is, I think, good evidence that Splash Mountain is not the best way to address your concern about preserving these folktales.

"Folklorists in the late 19th century first documented evidence that the American versions of the stories originated among enslaved West Africans based on connections between Br'er Rabbit and Leuk, a rabbit trickster in Senegalese folklore "

"Very similar versions of the same stories were recorded independently at the same time by the folklorist Alcée Fortier in southern Louisiana, where the Rabbit character was known as Compair Lapin in Creole. Enid Blyton, the English writer of children's fiction, retold the stories for children. "

Lapin just means Rabbit in French.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

You're right. My opinion, while just as equal and legitimate to all other opinions out there, apparently doesn't count.

I didn't say you can't have an opinion, you absolutely can. Just the change wasn't made for you/people not offended by it, it was made for those that are so they can enjoy the ride as well

 

[Eric Smith]

Its not offensive to me.

That’s not the point. It’s offensive to a large chunk of the population

 

[rteetz]

I could say so many things but I don't want Ryan to hate me. I hope this thread closes soon, because it's just going in circles now.

No matter what I do I don’t win unfortunately. The luxury of my position.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

That’s not the point. It’s offensive to a large chunk of the population

And not offensive to a large chunk of the population as well:
https://www.change.org/p/everyone-t...p-it-as-it-is-in-magic-kingdom-and-disneyland

 

[MaC410]

And not offensive to a large chunk of the population as well:
https://www.change.org/p/everyone-t...p-it-as-it-is-in-magic-kingdom-and-disneyland

Guess what's also not offensive to a large chunk of the population. The confederate flag. That doesn't change the fact that it's something that needs to stop being displayed. Stop arguing in bad faith.