Special Needs teen

[DLgal]

it is tough and NO ONE gets it unless they've been there. It's about 100x more frustrating when you know how little it would have taken to go down a different path.

Like I said, my son has successfully gone to "regular" camp since Kindergarten and at first I was very worried knowing it was just a bunch of kids who had no special training who were the counselors... I know how truly little it takes to make a huge difference in a lot of these kids and the "play book" is not really complicated to be honest and anyone with an ounce of compassion would be glad to know what to do in certain situations. There are basic techniques that help with ALL kids but especially kids with certain issues and it sounds like the counselors could do with a little more training on it.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. My son's first cruise was when he was 9 so he was very able to advocate for himself, but he still did not care for the chaos of the kid's clubs... I am hoping he has a better time at the edge, all of the videos we saw of it show it much more empty and the activites sound REALLY interesting to him (he DID like the structured activities of the club like super sloppy science).

Thank you for your understanding. I know you get it.

My son has come SO far with his communication. He has speech apraxia so is still struggling with certain letter sounds and sometimes talks so fast that he is hard to understand, but he is great at advocating for himself these days. He was so limited by his speech issue as a young child that it was so hard for him to explain his needs to others. He is also not a fan of chaos and noise so it's nice to know that the teen clubs are a bit more chill. He loves video games and I think he would enjoy spending time there, but he is VERY socially immature and naive (still likes preschool level cartoon shows, for example). So, that worries me. We will likely stick to open house hours so he can go "play" in the kids club. Do they do open house for the teen clubs too?

We are planning another DCL cruise next summer, most likely. Or we might wait for the new ship the following year.

 

[Lisa F]

And then those "few existing cast members" are on call all day/night for whenever you want to leave your child at the club?

you're right. it sounds like they all could do with a little more training honestly. Then it wouldn't be on a few CMs.

If these who are Y camp counselors can learn how to be a little more compassionate toward people with special needs, I am quite sure that with training Disney CMs can as well.

 

[DLgal]

And then those "few existing cast members" are on call all day/night for whenever you want to leave your child at the club?

No. Why is this so hard to understand? You train some or all of the CMs. You then schedule the shifts in a way that there is always at least one in the club for each shift. There are only so many hours of programming in a day.

And since when are the clubs open "all day and night?"

 

[Lisa F]

Thank you for your understanding. I know you get it.

My son has come SO far with his communication. He has speech apraxia so is still struggling with certain letter sounds and sometimes talks so fast that he is hard to understand, but he is great at advocating for himself these days. He was so limited by his speech issue as a young child that it was so hard for him to explain his needs to others. He is also not a fan of chaos and noise so it's nice to know that the teen clubs are a bit more chill. He loves video games and I think he would enjoy spending time there, but he is VERY socially immature and naive (still likes preschool level cartoon shows, for example). So, that worries me. We will likely stick to open house hours so he can go "play" in the kids club. Do they do open house for the teen clubs too?

We are planning another DCL cruise next summer, most likely. Or we might wait for the new ship the following year.

I am poring over the star wars day at sea cruise navigators and it looks like both the Edge and the Vibe do have some open house hours. The Edge is smaller sized and has quieter decor than the Vibe but still has computers, video games etc - he might like that better (we were watching video tours on both last night), both mid morning and evening hours.

A friend of mine's son has that and it is definitely challenging. I'm glad he is doing better with it, it is sometimes so frustrating to see your child challenged quite so much but then you just have to think about how far they've come already rather than how far they have left to go. The social aspect is the one that is really the hardest for me to deal with. I am so blessed that my son is in my life and he has taught me as much as I have taught him. He has so much compassion for others and their differences, I wish everyone else could see the world through his eyes sometimes.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

No. Why is this so hard to understand? You train some or all of the CMs. You then schedule the shifts in a way that there is always at least one in the club for each shift. There are only so many hours of programming in a day.

And since when are the clubs open "all day and night?"

OK, so all YA CMs get training. And they get scheduled in such a way so that at least one CM with extra training in on shift. And a child comes in requiring their special training. You've now shorted the club by at least one CM who's supposed to be working with all the kids in the club.

No the clubs are not open all day and night. I was referring to the total open hours (typically 9 am to midnight), that run more than the standard 8 hour shift.

 

[DLgal]

OK, so all YA CMs get training. And they get scheduled in such a way so that at least one CM with extra training in on shift. And a child comes in requiring their special training. You've now shorted the club by at least one CM who's supposed to be working with all the kids in the club.

No the clubs are not open all day and night. I was referring to the total open hours (typically 9 am to midnight), that run more than the standard 8 hour shift.

I give up. Truly.

I am not suggesting 1:1 attention at all times. You don't seem to get that.

 

[dcassetta]

Wow, how sympathetic of you.

I was not trying to provoke an argument. You specifically stated that Carnival and Celebrity have programs that have been recognized. I think it's great that if a child's needs cannot be met on one cruise line that it does not eliminate cruising as an option for their family. It seems to me that what @eeyoreandtink stated about the clubs would make them very challenging for a child on the spectrum, even with a specially trained CM.

 

[gotomu212]

I give up. Truly.

I am not suggesting 1:1 attention at all times. You don't seem to get that.

Another way of explaining it using different scenario (and I apologize if I misunderstand your point) is the way some police forces have officers specially trained in mental health crisis (and I am not comparing mental health and special needs just drawing a parralel with extra training for specific situation). All the officers go about their jobs the same way, but if there’s a situation with an individual in a mental health crisis they say “call Bob over” and he takes the lead and employees a few different techniques. He’s not leaving his regular job and he’s not sitting around until needed. He’s just got a little more training in helping specific situations And understands that a slightly different approach is needed. His being on the scene helps other officers understand what’s happening and adjust.

You aren’t asking for more CMs or for them to provide one on one attention. Just some with more training that can step over if someone needs support. “Hey Karen I’ve got someone struggling over here can you take over the coloring section and help him out while I take your kid registration spot?” When everyone is doing well Karen and the others go about business as usual. It’s really no different than having to activate a different protocol when someone gets sick or has an accident.

It would mean the CMs would need the ability to switch tasks easily- and I know now it’s pretty inflexible and that you stand in this spot and this room and don’t go to a different activity until relieved at this time- but I think it’s doable.

Even though I don’t have a special needs child I think providing more training to assist situations that may occasionally arise would be smart and make the clubs a happier, safer place for everyone.

 

[lanejudy]

Comparing the kids' spaces on a cruise to the parks is apples-vs-oranges; a closer comparison would be to the childcare programs offered at WDW (it might just be Pixar Play Zone now) -- which does align very similarly to the Club as far as accommodation of special needs. The parks can be very accommodating but the child is still under the direct supervision of the parent/family and not WDW. Outside of the Club/Lab, I haven't found any activity onboard DCL that did not allow for accommodation my DD needed, but again she was under my direct supervision and not DCL's so I was facilitating when necessary.

I suspect there is a different level of liability if DCL were to take any steps for additional training regarding special needs. Potentially even, and I hate to say it, but risk of discriminating against another disability for whom they don't offer additional training/staffing. While 1 child may benefit from having someone trained in communication, another may need someone trained in helping with motor skills, diabetes management, etc. The onus is on the family to determine whether the child is capable of participating in the environment, as well as assisting their child with their needs.

I believe much of what Disney does with regards to childcare is driven by risk of liability. That includes the change several years ago now to the Open House times, strict upper age limits, and restriction on adults in the kids' spaces.

 

[DLgal]

Another way of explaining it using different scenario (and I apologize if I misunderstand your point) is the way some police forces have officers specially trained in mental health crisis (and I am not comparing mental health and special needs just drawing a parralel with extra training for specific situation). All the officers go about their jobs the same way, but if there’s a situation with an individual in a mental health crisis they say “call Bob over” and he takes the lead and employees a few different techniques. He’s not leaving his regular job and he’s not sitting around until needed. He’s just got a little more training in helping specific situations And understands that a slightly different approach is needed. His being on the scene helps other officers understand what’s happening and adjust.

You aren’t asking for more CMs or for them to provide one on one attention. Just some with more training that can step over if someone needs support. “Hey Karen I’ve got someone struggling over here can you take over the coloring section and help him out while I take your kid registration spot?” When everyone is doing well Karen and the others go about business as usual. It’s really no different than having to activate a different protocol when someone gets sick or has an accident.

It would mean the CMs would need the ability to switch tasks easily- and I know now it’s pretty inflexible and that you stand in this spot and this room and don’t go to a different activity until relieved at this time- but I think it’s doable.

Even though I don’t have a special needs child I think providing more training to assist situations that may occasionally arise would be smart and make the clubs a happier, safer place for everyone.

Yes! Exactly!

Thank you for taking the time to explain what I meant. This would be VERY easy to do and I do know that "some Youth Activities counselors have some training/experience with autism. I spoke to a wonderful one the day after our "situation" who had an autistic daughter back home in Argentina, and she was very sympathetic and said "I'm sorry I was not here last night...I would have tried to help your son." So, yeah, it WOULD be great if Disney gave thier CMs some official training so that kids with disabilities would feel more welcome in the clubs.

 

[DLgal]

I suspect there is a different level of liability if DCL were to take any steps for additional training regarding special needs. Potentially even, and I hate to say it, but risk of discriminating against another disability for whom they don't offer additional training/staffing. While 1 child may benefit from having someone trained in communication, another may need someone trained in helping with motor skills, diabetes management, etc. The onus is on the family to determine whether the child is capable of participating in the environment, as well as assisting their child with their needs.

I believe much of what Disney does with regards to childcare is driven by risk of liability. That includes the change several years ago now to the Open House times, strict upper age limits, and restriction on adults in the kids' spaces.

Medical disabilities are another category completely. No one can expect a company like Disney to take that kind of liability.

As stated, other cruise lines have taken steps to be more accommodating to DEVELOPMENTAL disabilities. There is no increased liability in training your staff to be acknowledge about autism, Down Syndrome, or any other disabilities that result in communication and social skills issues (99% of the time, this is the area where these kids struggle and need some different strategies to engage successfully with other kids and adults.)

Bottom line is Disney doesn't WANT to make an effort. It's easier and cheaper for them to say "we can't offer any additional support or specially trained CMs." That is what makes me sad.

 

[lanejudy]

I assume you are considering diabetes a “medical” disability, but I don’t know why you might think challenges with fine and/or gross motor skills must be lumped there as well. Many children with “developmental” disabilities have motor skill delays.

A similar argument could be made that it really only takes a little bit of training for a caregiver to recognize some basic warning signs of an impending diabetic low, and zero training for CMs to remind a 10–yr-old to test. Any CM who can read a clock could remind a young child with a bladder condition to use the restroom. Fairly easy training to teach some techniques to assist a child with fine motor skills so s/he can complete a craft activity, or how to dance with a child who has balance issues so that child can be included. Those are all things CMs in the Club won’t do. I could go on with numerous simple things CMs could be trained to do to help a wide variety of special needs but which trainings and which CMs and to what end?

I’m glad other cruise lines are getting “autism-certified,” I honestly am. It is a step forwards towards acceptance. But I am wary because that is a broad spectrum diagnosis and the current buzz word. Once someone (an administrator, CEO, etc.) thinks that certification means they have done enough to be accommodating of special needs, they don’t even considered there are other “special needs” kids who don’t fall under that umbrella.

I do believe DCL’s policies about access to the kids’ spaces are directly driven by liability and litigation. Their answer has been to offer “Open House” times. I’m not saying that I agree that is the best solution, but it is the solution DCL’s lawyers apparently decided.

 

[WDWJonasGirl]

Hi! As a former Special Needs teen, I can help. Like @bumbershoot, there will be Open Houses in the navigator so she can play and check it out. I loved these as a young adult (will be 24 this May). I was very familiar with the ship so I did well. In addition, I loved the teen club as a 16 year old

 

[CaLuCa]

OP here.

We walked off the Wonder this morning at 7:56am. Home by 8:45! We spent 4 amazing days in Puerto Rico prior, and had an fantastic time on the Wonder. I asked a LOT of questions about a LOT of things and will try to go back and update in case anyone has similar situations. Regarding my daughter...possibly the best way to describe how it went occurred at breakfast at AP this morning was her trying to calculate how old she'd be on our cruise next January (math is not our strong suit!) so she'd be able to still be in the VIBE!!!

She was so hesistant, but I spoke to two of the main counselors the first day. I told them I understood the rules of letting the teens come and go at will, but we had discussed as a family that this was not something we would do. I told them we would come and check on her frequently (her little phone was way too old to handle the app!) and pick her up. I told them to call me if necessary. She spent every moment she could in there. She loved the other kids and they seemed accepting of her.

They danced together on the stage for pirate night and then all hung out for the deck party together. My 8year old DD and I hung back and watched her and the show. They all seemed so happy to dance to all the songs, and when One Direction came on they all went crazy, singing loudly. My 8 year old noticed I was crying. It was so hard to explain to her how happy it made me to see my 15 year old a part of something, included, enjoying life so much.

Even though we were on the Wonder, it was Magical!

 

[eeyoreandtink]

OP here.

We walked off the Wonder this morning at 7:56am. Home by 8:45! We spent 4 amazing days in Puerto Rico prior, and had an fantastic time on the Wonder. I asked a LOT of questions about a LOT of things and will try to go back and update in case anyone has similar situations. Regarding my daughter...possibly the best way to describe how it went occurred at breakfast at AP this morning was her trying to calculate how old she'd be on our cruise next January (math is not our strong suit!) so she'd be able to still be in the VIBE!!!

She was so hesistant, but I spoke to two of the main counselors the first day. I told them I understood the rules of letting the teens come and go at will, but we had discussed as a family that this was not something we would do. I told them we would come and check on her frequently (her little phone was way too old to handle the app!) and pick her up. I told them to call me if necessary. She spent every moment she could in there. She loved the other kids and they seemed accepting of her.

They danced together on the stage for pirate night and then all hung out for the deck party together. My 8year old DD and I hung back and watched her and the show. They all seemed so happy to dance to all the songs, and when One Direction came on they all went crazy, singing loudly. My 8 year old noticed I was crying. It was so hard to explain to her how happy it made me to see my 15 year old a part of something, included, enjoying life so much.

Even though we were on the Wonder, it was Magical!

I am so glad it went well for her!!!

 

[trevorsmom2002]

OP here.

We walked off the Wonder this morning at 7:56am. Home by 8:45! We spent 4 amazing days in Puerto Rico prior, and had an fantastic time on the Wonder. I asked a LOT of questions about a LOT of things and will try to go back and update in case anyone has similar situations. Regarding my daughter...possibly the best way to describe how it went occurred at breakfast at AP this morning was her trying to calculate how old she'd be on our cruise next January (math is not our strong suit!) so she'd be able to still be in the VIBE!!!

She was so hesistant, but I spoke to two of the main counselors the first day. I told them I understood the rules of letting the teens come and go at will, but we had discussed as a family that this was not something we would do. I told them we would come and check on her frequently (her little phone was way too old to handle the app!) and pick her up. I told them to call me if necessary. She spent every moment she could in there. She loved the other kids and they seemed accepting of her.

They danced together on the stage for pirate night and then all hung out for the deck party together. My 8year old DD and I hung back and watched her and the show. They all seemed so happy to dance to all the songs, and when One Direction came on they all went crazy, singing loudly. My 8 year old noticed I was crying. It was so hard to explain to her how happy it made me to see my 15 year old a part of something, included, enjoying life so much.

Even though we were on the Wonder, it was Magical!

We had an almost identical experience! Except on the Fantasy! My 16 year old son is on the spectrum- high functioning; this was our 7th Disney cruise and his second time in the Vibe. I explained to the counselors on the first day that he is autistic but was able to use his phone to get in touch with us and is good with coming and going on his own. We had such a great group of teens that included him in everything!!! They were so protective and made sure he got to wherever he was going. He got homecoming king!!!! I was crying, too! He got some phone numbers and has been facetiming his new friends every night since we have been home. I have had a fantastic experience with both the couselors and other kids on every cruise. Think we may do the Southern Caribbean next January! Would love to know where you stayed and what you guys did in San Juan!

 

[Lisa F]

We had an almost identical experience! Except on the Fantasy! My 16 year old son is on the spectrum- high functioning; this was our 7th Disney cruise and his second time in the Vibe. I explained to the counselors on the first day that he is autistic but was able to use his phone to get in touch with us and is good with coming and going on his own. We had such a great group of teens that included him in everything!!! They were so protective and made sure he got to wherever he was going. He got homecoming king!!!! I was crying, too! He got some phone numbers and has been facetiming his new friends every night since we have been home. I have had a fantastic experience with both the couselors and other kids on every cruise. Think we may do the Southern Caribbean next January! Would love to know where you stayed and what you guys did in San Juan!

I wish I could heart this rather than just like.

I'm also really glad to hear in general the counselors are willing to listen and give a little extra to those who need it. It really doesn't take much to make the difference!

OP here.

We walked off the Wonder this morning at 7:56am. Home by 8:45! We spent 4 amazing days in Puerto Rico prior, and had an fantastic time on the Wonder. I asked a LOT of questions about a LOT of things and will try to go back and update in case anyone has similar situations. Regarding my daughter...possibly the best way to describe how it went occurred at breakfast at AP this morning was her trying to calculate how old she'd be on our cruise next January (math is not our strong suit!) so she'd be able to still be in the VIBE!!!

She was so hesistant, but I spoke to two of the main counselors the first day. I told them I understood the rules of letting the teens come and go at will, but we had discussed as a family that this was not something we would do. I told them we would come and check on her frequently (her little phone was way too old to handle the app!) and pick her up. I told them to call me if necessary. She spent every moment she could in there. She loved the other kids and they seemed accepting of her.

They danced together on the stage for pirate night and then all hung out for the deck party together. My 8year old DD and I hung back and watched her and the show. They all seemed so happy to dance to all the songs, and when One Direction came on they all went crazy, singing loudly. My 8 year old noticed I was crying. It was so hard to explain to her how happy it made me to see my 15 year old a part of something, included, enjoying life so much.

Even though we were on the Wonder, it was Magical!

SOOOOOOOOO glad she had such a magical experience. Every kid should know how that feels. I'm hoping my son gets an equally nice group of kids on his cruise!