Sign on bonus for fast food?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As I was saying, it's more than cost difference.

And so was I

 

[sam_gordon]

And so was I

Yup, I know it's hard to believe, but I was agreeing with you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yup, I know it's hard to believe, but I was agreeing with you.

lol some days the world tilts on its axis I guess

*said in a joking manner

 

[GreatLakes]

I think this will all work itself out and people will be back to many of these jobs in the near future. Some of the short term issues are mentioned here like all the workers that moved, those that have to delay returning to work due to child care, or people that still are living on savings, unemployment, or a combination of them but those aren't all long term.

I also think some of the jobs will be filled with automation. There is no reason a human has to take your order at a fast food restaurant, that can all be done on a mobile device or touch screen, and that is true of many jobs. One of the positives to come out of the pandemic is a re-working of processes to make them less human-powered. We have learned that some jobs can be done just as well with less humans and more computers.

 

[spiders]

The business model is changing - that’s why you’re seeing more kiosks.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I’ve always wondered why until recent history, one person (the man) in the family could easily support the entire family on his wages alone. My grandfather worked in a factory and gave my mother and grandmother (and aunt and uncle) a great life. Vacations every year, fun activities etc. on one factory workers pay. Now oftentimes two worker families have trouble making ends meet. It’s a shame.

Like most things, this is an issue coming from multiple directions. Wages have largely kept pace with inflation with the exception of healthcare and college costs. If you are insulated from those two, you’re doing okay even at a median income.

On the spending side, expectations for a “middle class” life have shifted a lot. Houses have grown significantly, the gadgets inside cost us way more monthly, etc.

Its funny to think back because both my wife and I grew up in houses without air conditioning, 5 channels on the single TV, and sharing bedrooms with siblings. All of that would be unimaginable today for someone in the middle class… but it would be way cheaper.

 

[AndreaDM]

One thing that’s been mentioned a bit in this thread that I think is a large contributor to the problem, is how nasty the public has become. And, at times, dangerous. A 17 year old lifeguard was recently stabbed on duty in MA because he asked a group of young adults to stop partying or leave. There is already a lifeguard shortage.
When my DD was 14 and 15, she worked as a cashier and then service desk clerk at our grocery store. Not sure I would let my young teen work with the public in today’s environment.

My DD18 has worked in food service as her part time job until this spring, people were just so nasty! She now works in a garden center (register) and it isn't AS bad, but she still has nasty customers and most of them are older folks who act very entitled. She had a lady bang on the door a few minutes after closing and get angry that they wouldn't let her in to get "just one thing". It's not just grabbing the item, the computers, registers, etc. were all shut down for the day, no way to take payment. It was also the older folks ignoring the mask mandates when they were still required, she would politely ask if the customer needed one (they had them to hand out), but got cussed at more than once. I have had a few screwed up orders and had to wait in some long checkout lines due to under staffing, but I make a point to be pleasant and patient with the person who is serving me.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Yup, I know it's hard to believe, but I was agreeing with you.

Haha...that's funny. We see the same folks on many threads. And when it came to the pandemic, we all knew where we kind of sided. But then the fireworks thread came up and I was definitely on the same team as some folks that I vehemently disagreed with on that topic. So...good to know we can all come together on some things....like our hatred of excessive fireworks.

 

[SmallWorld71]

My DD18 has worked in food service as her part time job until this spring, people were just so nasty! She now works in a garden center (register) and it isn't AS bad, but she still has nasty customers and most of them are older folks who act very entitled. She had a lady bang on the door a few minutes after closing and get angry that they wouldn't let her in to get "just one thing". It's not just grabbing the item, the computers, registers, etc. were all shut down for the day, no way to take payment. It was also the older folks ignoring the mask mandates when they were still required, she would politely ask if the customer needed one (they had them to hand out), but got cussed at more than once. I have had a few screwed up orders and had to wait in some long checkout lines due to under staffing, but I make a point to be pleasant and patient with the person who is serving me.

It’s crazy! Too many years of the customer is always right have not served us well either.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Like most things, this is an issue coming from multiple directions. Wages have largely kept pace with inflation with the exception of healthcare and college costs. If you are insulated from those two, you’re doing okay even at a median income.

On the spending side, expectations for a “middle class” life have shifted a lot. Houses have grown significantly, the gadgets inside cost us way more monthly, etc.

Its funny to think back because both my wife and I grew up in houses without air conditioning, 5 channels on the single TV, and sharing bedrooms with siblings. All of that would be unimaginable today for someone in the middle class… but it would be way cheaper.

We must be around the same age, because DH and I talk about this frequently. Well, I think he did have A/C in his house. We were lower middle class, and didn't even have a window unit. Grew up in a 1,000 sq ft home with three small bedrooms and two sisters. I didn't get my own bedroom until my older sister went to college. Same with TV....no cable until I was maybe in 7th grade....on and on. We didn't go on regular vacations. We did an overnight in a hotel at a shore town. And then one trip to Disney....we drove, and stayed at my grandparents house in Vero Beach. A middle class lifestyle now just seems way, way different experience.

But...my parents were able to afford to have my mother at home with us until we were in high school, and then she got a job. Once we were all out of the house, they were able to increase their lifestyle by not having to pay for us, and also having a double income. With all of the "extras" in everyday life now, and the inflated costs of housing, education and healthcare....very tough to make it as middle income family. Or maybe not tough to make it....but tough to get to the next level I guess.

 

[wenrob]

Actually I would flip that. It would be better for the health of our nation if it was less expensive to feed our families with healthy food. A lot of people eat fast food because it's cheap(er) than other options. We do complain about the costs of fast food creeping up there but a lot of foods and meal options that are marketed as healthy(ier) are cost prohibitive to a good amount of people, it causes people like it or not to seek out less expensive options which are often not healthy. So I would say instead of making unhealthy food more expensive make healthy(ier) food less expensive. You're still going to have people eat fast food but there would at least be more options available to people.

People think you need to eat all organic, fresh, etc. to eat healthy and that’s just not true. Veggies are cheap, frozen veggies are cheap and convenient (I keep huge bags in my freezer) bags of rice are cheap, chicken is cheap. For what I spend on a round McD’s for my family (about $35 for 4 people) I can feed them for a week with those things. Part of the problem is that in some lower economic neighborhoods those things aren’t as readily available. And what Sam mentioned factors in too. I’m a stay at home mom so it’s easy for me to cook every night but for folks that are working 12-14 hour days not so much. Which brings us around to the original topic. People are discovering they don’t have to work 12-14 hour days and so they’ve decided not to.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

People think you need to eat all organic, fresh, etc. to eat healthy and that’s just not true. Veggies are cheap, frozen veggies are cheap and convenient (I keep huge bags in my freezer) bags of rice are cheap, chicken is cheap. For what I spend on a round McD’s for my family (about $35 for 4 people) I can feed them for a week with those things. Part of the problem is that in some lower economic neighborhoods those things aren’t as readily available. And what Sam mentioned factors in too. I’m a stay at home mom so it’s easy for me to cook every night but for folks that are working 12-14 hour days not so much. Which brings us around to the original topic. People are discovering they don’t have to work 12-14 hour days and so they’ve decided not to.

You're totally right about what foods we eat and the perception around it, I don't negate that at all and honestly we've not been given very good information in the food health industry to push us towards good ways of eating that don't require protein shakes for life or organic only (which organic is a misnomer anyways). Although even vegetables (and fruits) can get pricey at times (though I know that's not your point). We almost always buy green bell peppers for instance because red is like more than twice the cost (and this is Walmart) but red bell peppers do carry more nutritional value to them. Over the past week we've made for future meals (meaning they are in the freezer now) chicken primavera, sausage gumbo, chicken pesto tortellini, and chicken fajita stir fry with each of those making 2 meals each for 2 people but the groceries were cheap and not cheap. But it's overall cheaper than constantly ordering out or going to a restaurant and because we control the sodium content and fat content a bit more depending on things it can be healthier. We use canned chicken for some recipes (versus chicken breasts or tenders from Costco) but the lower sodium costs more than the lesser sodium and the lesser sodium costs more than normal.

I agree about the lower economic neighborhood though sometimes those just blend into other neighborhoods. There's a very large (several hundred thousand to over a million dollars) difference between my neighborhood and one a mile to two miles away. We all shop at the same Walmart and now Aldi though luckily there are lower cost options as the other grocery store (Price Chopper) is a more expensive and has a 1% higher sales tax because it's in a special tax district..it's right across the street from Walmart and Aldi. But we at least have those options to begin with, other places don't have that close to them at all.

I agree about work hours but I think that's going to be more the office/corporate type jobs. Your more service oriented jobs (retail, food, hospitality) you're still probably going to find people working more. The pandemic has allowed a lot of freedom but it's to a very specific type of people. Even if you consider the conversation around teens and young adults not working their typical summer jobs. That only works when they can financially do so. If you need to work because you need to pay for things and no one is fronting the bill you're still going to be working, it's only those who can rely on others for that support that get the ability to not work. But without a doubt the pandemic brought about different ways to look at how we are living our lives can't say that's all bad either. And when I say support I'm not talking about the unemployment because people love to make it about that and just that (not you, just saying that to make my point clearer about being supported).

 

[mrodgers]

It's not just the cost of fast food that makes it attractive, but the time (or lack thereof) required. It's so much faster to run to fast food, get your order for your family and eat it. Of course, there will now be people who come on and say "it takes no time to make a burger at home". Get the hamburger, make the patties, cook the patties, put the dressing on the buns, put the patties on the buns, plate it, etc. And you haven't even gotten into fries yet.

Nor the cleanup. Cleanup from fast food is easy. The cleanup is the worst part for me, which is why I cook 20 pork chops at a time and stick them in the freezer rather than cook every night.

I'm about to stop at Wendy's after work

 

[tzolkin]

This is what I have been saying about working from home. I was very lucky to be able to telework, our agency has never done anything like it before and through April of 2020 insisted it couldnt happen. Finally they sent all of us home and eventually called us back to get our desktops from the office. Now they are opening again and many of us dont want to go back, especially if we dont see clients or what we do can be done online. They are now starting to make a telework agreement with the union and I hope I never have to go back. Not because Im lazy and I dont work as hard at home as I do in the office, but because never in my life (and ive been working for almost 30 years now) have I ever had a sustainable work/life balance like I do now. Something was always dropped or I was running ragged.

I have a much more meaningful life now than I did before and I dont want to give this up.

Working from home tends to be more productive and also more hours put in, so you're definitely not lazy or less hard working. I think it's fantastic that you have been able to find a good balance and feel that your life is more meaningful now.

For me, it has always been about the value of flexibility and it's worth it even if I do work more hours in total and struggle a bit to keep boundaries. My current job is high stress, I'm "on call" nearly 24/7, and I put in more work than I would if I went into an office, but the tradeoff for being able to work when I want from where I want is important. I can take a walk whenever I want, schedule appointments whenever I want, go on the internet to check the Disboards whenever I want I've also been able to go on trips or take a day off without using up vacation time. I've flown to another states to stay with a relative recovering from surgery or illness. Etc.

A few previous posters have mentioned that people have gotten a taste of what their options really are during the pandemic and are making life changes that benefit their families as a result. That's exactly what my priority has been for many years. I stayed home when my kids were little and we structured our life around one income and being budget conscious. When I went back to work, I knew we could get by without my income if need be so I had more freedom to choose work based on how flexible it was and how well it would work with our current goals. Ex. For several years I worked a job that had no benefits, but allowed me to work the exact hours the kids were in school (so I could get them on and off the bus) and to be off every day that school was out (including the summers). Then when we moved across the country I worked part time from home so we could figure out DH's new work schedule, meet people in the community, volunteer, etc. Made it a much easier transition for us and the kids than if I was at work 9+ hours a day.

 

[mrodgers]

Hard to cook a burger at home when your meat price is high, might as well go to McDonalds. A 5lb log of 80/20 beef at my closest Walmart right now is $4/lb or $19.98. In April it was $3/lb or $15.00 when we bought it then. Of course we know prices fluctuate but yeah. And yes when you buy meat at the store you can customize how much meat goes into it but a lot of people are just going to look at "It's 20$ to get this meat and just the meat, too pricey".

At $4/lb. plus $1.99 for a package of 8 buns and $4 for 16 slices of Kraft cheese. You can make a quarter pound hamburger for $1.49. How much is a McDonalds Quarter Pounder with Cheese? Online is showing estimated $4.24 for Pennsylvania.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

At $4/lb. plus $1.99 for a package of 8 buns and $4 for 16 slices of Kraft cheese. You can make a quarter pound hamburger for $1.49. How much is a McDonalds Quarter Pounder with Cheese? Online is showing estimated $4.24 for Pennsylvania.

Again look at my last part of the comment you quoted......

 

[mrodgers]

I’ve always wondered why until recent history, one person (the man) in the family could easily support the entire family on his wages alone. My grandfather worked in a factory and gave my mother and grandmother (and aunt and uncle) a great life. Vacations every year, fun activities etc. on one factory workers pay. Now oftentimes two worker families have trouble making ends meet. It’s a shame.

Oh I'm going to get a lot of flack from this, but....

Between the time your grandfather was the sole provider of the family and now, we flooded the job market with nearly twice the workers. Things were cheaper and affordable on 1 income because only 1 person in the family had income. When both mom and dad started going to work, it devalued the worker thus pay went down. Simple economics. More workers there are, less value the worker holds. Pretty much the same idea as moving minimum to $15/hour will just move the entire curve so that $15 minimum will be the new bottom and thus will be just as poor as $7.50.

 

[MrsPete]

Geez, what area was this in? I can get a double cheeseburger meal for 5 bucks and feed the four of us for under 25.

I'm ashamed to know this ... but you should never order a Double Cheeseburger at McDonald's. Why? Because a Double Cheeseburger is $2.xx, while a McDouble is the same thing minus one slice of cheese, and it's 99 cents. If you save your receipt /fill out the online survey, you can get a free McDouble next time.

Honestly, if you pay attention to what's cheapest, you can eat fast food REALLY CHEAP; for example, recently I had a super long day at work and thought I'd pick up Arby's on the way home ... their Fast Fave Feast was 4 sandwiches and 3 sides (?) for something like $14; three of us didn't finish it ... whereas, if you order whatever's on your mind, it can be pretty expensive.

Other restaurant food can be cheaper still. For example, we like Chinese take-out. A combo meal costs about $8. My husband and I usually split a plate ... so that's 2 meals, and I usually warm up the eggroll for breakfast the next morning. 3 meals for $8 isn't bad.

Raise prices. Fast food was created to be fast, not cheap. Honestly it would be better for the health of our nation is it was more expensive to feed our families such unhealthy food.

I'm not sure fast food was created JUST to be fast, but I agree it would be better for us as a society if we all ate less of it.

It's not just the cost of fast food that makes it attractive, but the time (or lack thereof) required. It's so much faster to run to fast food, get your order for your family and eat it. Of course, there will now be people who come on and say "it takes no time to make a burger at home". Get the hamburger, make the patties, cook the patties, put the dressing on the buns, put the patties on the buns, plate it, etc. And you haven't even gotten into fries yet.

Agree ... fast food is attractive because of the speed, the cost AND the ease.
And that's all okay IF you have it occasionally, but I know people who pretty much eat NOTHING BUT fast food. Part of it is because they don't know how to cook.

One thing that’s been mentioned a bit in this thread that I think is a large contributor to the problem, is how nasty the public has become.

That's true. In the years I've been teaching, I've seen a big change in my students' attitudes -- and not for the better. Two big factors: 1) the internet; people will say things online that they wouldn't say to someone's face ... and it becomes a habit. 2) reality TV, where people are awful to one another.

The business model is changing - that’s why you’re seeing more kiosks.

Kiosks and order-ahead apps. And between the lack of workers and rising wages for fast food workers, I think we can expect more "robot cooks".

We must be around the same age, because DH and I talk about this frequently. Well, I think he did have A/C in his house. We were lower middle class, and didn't even have a window unit. Grew up in a 1,000 sq ft home with three small bedrooms and two sisters. I didn't get my own bedroom until my older sister went to college. Same with TV....no cable until I was maybe in 7th grade....on and on. We didn't go on regular vacations. We did an overnight in a hotel at a shore town. And then one trip to Disney....we drove, and stayed at my grandparents house in Vero Beach. A middle class lifestyle now just seems way, way different experience.

Sounds like my childhood: no AC, small house with five kids, no one had cable TV or even a VCR, one 13" B&W TV in the living room, one pair of tennis shoes per year, three pair of jeans in the fall /cut off for the next summer, occasional extended family vacations. Expectations are MUCH higher today, even for families who aren't middle class.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sounds like my childhood: no AC, small house with five kids, no one had cable TV or even a VCR, one 13" B&W TV in the living room, one pair of tennis shoes per year, three pair of jeans in the fall /cut off for the next summer, occasional extended family vacations. Expectations are MUCH higher today, even for families who aren't middle class.

BUT, I bet you the expectations when you were a child were much higher than when your parents were children. The expectations when they were growing up were much higher than when their parents were growing up, etc, etc, etc.

 

[monsterkitty]

At $4/lb. plus $1.99 for a package of 8 buns and $4 for 16 slices of Kraft cheese. You can make a quarter pound hamburger for $1.49. How much is a McDonalds Quarter Pounder with Cheese? Online is showing estimated $4.24 for Pennsylvania.

I'm quoting this only for the prices.

I taught in a school that was in a food desert in a suburb. There was a Dollar Store, 7-11, McDonald's, KFC, Subway, and a Burger King within walking distance for the students who attended my school. The closest Krogers or Walmart were at least 3 miles away and we have less than stellar public transportation. As I sit and think about it, there is only 2 grocery stores in the school district boundaries.

If you can't get to the grocery store easily it doesn't matter if you can buy the supplies to make a cheaper, healthier meal. If you have to use a ride share to get to and from the store, that makes it even more expensive. We also have to factor in that many of the students were at home alone while parents worked 2 jobs or jobs that have hours when school is out for the day. It's easier for the parents to leave the money for their child to walk to McDonalds than it is to figure out how to get to and from the store and prepare the food so they can eat by themselves or with siblings while parents work.